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Old 06-27-2008, 04:13 PM
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Did you know that 52
of the 55 signers of the Declaration of Independence were
orthodox,
deeply committed
Christians? The other three all believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the
God of scripture, and His personal intervention.



It is the same
congress that formed the American Bible Society. Immediately after
creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to
purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this
nation.



Patrick Henry, who
is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is still remembered for his
words, 'Give me liberty or give me death.' But in current textbooks the
context of these words is deleted. Here is what he said: 'An appeal to
arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight
our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of
nations. The battle, sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so
dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and
slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may
take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death.'

These
sentences have been erased from our textbooks.



Was Patrick Henry a
Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: 'It cannot be
emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by
religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus
Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded
freedom of worship here.'



Consider these words
that Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well-worn Bible: 'I am a
Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have
little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our
Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus
also.'




Consider these words
from George Washington, the father of our nation, in his farewell speech on
September 19, 1796:



'It is impossible to
govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and
habits that lead to political prosperity, our religion and morality are the
indispensable supporters. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that
morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both
forbid us to expect that our national morality can prevail in exclusion of
religious principle.'



Was George
Washington a Christian? Consider these words from his personal prayer
book: 'Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and
work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by the Holy Spirit Daily,
frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that living in
Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in Thy appointed time obtain the
resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race
of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thy Son, Jesus
Christ.'




Consider these words
by John Adams, our second president, who also served as chairman of the American
Bible Society.



In an address to
military leaders he said, 'We have no government armed with the power capable of
contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion.
Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate to the
government of any other.'

How about our
first Court Justice, John Jay?



He stated that
when we select our national leaders, if we are to preserve our nation,
we must select Christians. ' Providence has given to our people
the choice of their rulers and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and
interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their
rulers.'

John Quincy Adams,
son of John Adams, was the sixth U.S. President.



He also served
as the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest
and most important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, 'The
highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one
indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of
Christianity.'



Calvin Coolidge, our
30th President of the United States reaffirmed this truth when he wrote, 'The
foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of
the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings
would cease to be practically universal in our country.'



In 1782, the United
States Congress voted this resolution: 'The congress of the United States
recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all
schools.'



William Holmes
McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over
100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was
stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the 'Schoolmaster of the
Nation.'



Listen to these
words of Mr. McGuffey: 'The Christian religion is the religion of
our country. From it are derived our notions on character of God, on the
great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the
peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more
conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts
from the Bible I make no apology.'



Of the first 108
universities founded in America , 106 were distinctly Christian, including the
first,



Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original
Harvard Student Handbook rule number one was that students seeking entrance must
know Latin and Greek, so that they could study the
scriptures:



'Let every student
be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well the main end of his
life and that his studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life
(John 17:3); and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all
sound
knowledge and learning.
And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let everyone seriously set himself by
prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3).'

For over 100 years,
more than 50% of all Harvard graduates were ministers of the
gospel!



It is clear from history that the Bible and
the Christian faith, were foundational in our educational and judicial system.
However in 1947, there was a radical change of
direction in the Supreme Court.



Here is the prayer
that was banished:

'Almighty God, we
acknowledge our dependence on Thee. We beg Thy blessings upon us and our
parents and our teachers and our country. Amen.'

In 1963, the Supreme Court ruled that Bible reading was
outlawed as unconstitutional in the public school system. The court offered this
justification:

'If portions
of the New Testament were read without explanation, they could and have been
psychologically harmful to children.'



Bible reading was now
unconstitutional, though the Bible was quoted 94 percent of the time by those
who wrote our constitution and shaped our nation and its system of education and
justice and government.



In 1965, the Courts denied as unconstitutional the
rights of a student in the public school cafeteria to bow his head and pray
audibly for his food.

In 1980, Stone vs. Graham outlawed the Ten
Commandments in our public schools.



The Supreme Court said this: 'If the posted copies of
the Ten Commandments were to have any effect at all, it would be to induce
school children to read them. And if they read them, meditated upon them, and perhaps
venerated and observed them, this is not a permissible objective.'

Is it not a permissible objective to allow
our children to follow the moral principles of
the Ten Commandments?



James Madison, the
primary author of the Constitution of the United States , said this:
'We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power
of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political
constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves
according to the moral principles of the Ten
Commandments.'

Today we are asking God to bless America . But how can
He bless a nation that has departed so far from Him?

Most of what you read in this article has been erased
from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the
truth about our country's Christian roots.


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Old 06-27-2008, 05:24 PM
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Many of our founding fathers were also Freemasons- far more Deist than Christian And let's not forget the Treatise of Tripoli. (Quote from the Treatise)


"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Muslim nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
Old 06-27-2008, 06:02 PM
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Irishwarlord Irishwarlord is offline
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What was the disposition of the supreme court when the separation of school and
state was changed? (democrats-republicans) We need religion in our public schools
to give the kids a choice, they might not get at home. The bible helps people make
the choice between right and wrong, good and evil. If nothing else a fundamental
basis of a good life!!!
Old 06-27-2008, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Irishwarlord View Post
What was the disposition of the supreme court when the separation of school and
state was changed? (democrats-republicans) We need religion in our public schools
to give the kids a choice, they might not get at home. The bible helps people make
the choice between right and wrong, good and evil. If nothing else a fundamental
basis of a good life!!!
Thankfully religion is NOT in the public schools around here. However, that is yet another reason we are choosing to homeschool- so WE can be the ones to teach our own children about religion- not the State's idea of "religion". Frankly I'm shocked that any Christian would want their faith represented and taught by the government- isn't that a big part of what we wanted to AVOID by founding this country in the *first* place?
Old 06-27-2008, 07:09 PM
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Personally i see nothing wrong with schools having a moment of silence to start the day off, letting each child pray to what they believe in. The way our federal, state and local governments mess things up i don't want state funded schools teaching my relatives anything about God, what they SHOULD believe or anything else to do with religion . The more people i talk to the more i see home schooling going on.

Is there is a place in here that i can post some home schooling links that may be helpful to some of you that are home schooling ? A friend that home schools gave them to me and i've been kind of passing them around to those that want them.

Tool
Old 06-27-2008, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mama Bear View Post
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Muslim nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
Was this statement made on the shores of Tripoli?
Was it representative of the citizens of America or the person making the statement?
Who made the statement?
Is the statement binding in any way?
The United States of America was founded by Christians for Christians. It is undoubtedly, unmistakenly, and unquestionably rooted in Christianity. Moderners may not like the idea and may twist themselves into pretzels to try to prove otherwise but the fact remains.
Old 06-28-2008, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson View Post
Was this statement made on the shores of Tripoli?
Was it representative of the citizens of America or the person making the statement?
Who made the statement?
Is the statement binding in any way?
The United States of America was founded by Christians for Christians. It is undoubtedly, unmistakenly, and unquestionably rooted in Christianity. Moderners may not like the idea and may twist themselves into pretzels to try to prove otherwise but the fact remains.
I do not believe Pressley O'Bannon had any thing to with that treaty at Tripoli. I could be wrong but please show me proof.
Old 06-28-2008, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishwarlord View Post
What was the disposition of the supreme court when the separation of school and
state was changed? (democrats-republicans) We need religion in our public schools
to give the kids a choice, they might not get at home. The bible helps people make
the choice between right and wrong, good and evil. If nothing else a fundamental
basis of a good life!!!
Very well said , our society is in despert need of the moral foundations found in the Bible
Old 06-28-2008, 03:40 AM
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Not to start an arguement, but;
People fled to the North American continent to avoid religious persecution. They wanted to go somewhere where there was freedom of religion. The right to choose what religion they wanted to follow. Did the majority choose to practice Christianity? Yes. But what kind of Christianity?
It was a kind of Christianity that believed in massacring and commiting genocide on the tribes of North America. They enslaved people and lied, cheated, and stole from the North American tribes. They believed in the forced removal of entire tribes, just so they could have thier land.
If you want to associate yourselves with Christians like this, then go right ahead. I dont want to. I am Christian, but I am also well aware of my Native American ancestory. Some of my ancestors survived the "Trail of Tears" and met up with my French ancestors, and hear I am.
The United States was founded on the belief of freedom of religion. Any religion. It seems that today that is just as much b.s. as it was then.
Old 06-28-2008, 07:11 AM
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Very well said , our society is in despert need of the moral foundations found in the Bible
Our society is in need of morals, (and a sense of personal responsibility) yes- however, morality is hardly exclusive to Christianity.
Old 06-28-2008, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson View Post
Was this statement made on the shores of Tripoli?
Was it representative of the citizens of America or the person making the statement?
Who made the statement?
Is the statement binding in any way?
The United States of America was founded by Christians for Christians. It is undoubtedly, unmistakenly, and unquestionably rooted in Christianity. Moderners may not like the idea and may twist themselves into pretzels to try to prove otherwise but the fact remains.
I thought I had posted this earlier, but maybe not. Anyway- here it is again-

The Treaty of Tripoli was written by Joel Barlow, and signed on November 4, 1796 and again at Algiers (before a witness) on January 3, 1797. It was ratified by the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.

It was a treaty, signed by our president, ratified by the senate... I think that constitutes as somewhat binding.

As for 'by Christians, for Christians'- I'd call most of our founding fathers more Freemason Deists than I would Christian... Regardless- it seems clear given the whole 'freedom of religion' and the wording of this treaty among other things that it was intended for a secular government- regardless of the religious adherance of the populace and the founding members at the time.
Old 06-28-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Wolf2000;178063]Not to start an arguement, but;
People fled to the North American continent to avoid religious persecution. They wanted to go somewhere where there was freedom of religion. The right to choose what religion they wanted to follow. Did the majority choose to practice Christianity?
It sounds like you agree that our country was founded by Christians for Christians.

Quote:
Yes. But what kind of Christianity?
It was a kind of Christianity that believed in massacring and commiting genocide on the tribes of North America.
First of all, the writers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were Christians but not every individual who landed on the North American continent were necessarily Christian. Secondly, there were some kind Indian tribes who got along well with the early settlers but there were some blood thirsty tribes as well. Many European settlers died violent and bloody deaths. I believe you are painting all European settlers with a broad brush. I will need to see your documentation.

Quote:
They enslaved people and lied, cheated, and stole from the North American tribes. They believed in the forced removal of entire tribes, just so they could have thier land.
My earliest ancestor came to this land as a slave. Yes...he was a white slave. He later paid his way out of slavery and became a wealthy businessman. In one statement you say that the Indians were massacred and that the Europeans committed mass genocide then in this statement you say that the tribes were forcibly removed from their land. Which is it? Was their mass genocide or forced relocation? Way back in biblical times, the Assyrians went to war with my ancestors. Many of my ancestors were killed but the majority were moved from the lands north of Judah and Benjamin to the area of Mede and Persia. They later migrated northward. The point is that during war, one side wins that one side loses. The fact that so many Indians exist today is proof that they were not massacred. My plumber is an Indian and one of the best guys I've ever met. I really enjoy talking to him. He owns his own company and drives a very nice van. He makes a hell of a lot more than I do. I guess if it weren't for plumbing, he wouldn't have such a nice job.

Quote:
If you want to associate yourselves with Christians like this, then go right ahead. I dont want to. I am Christian, but I am also well aware of my Native American ancestory. Some of my ancestors survived the "Trail of Tears" and met up with my French ancestors, and hear I am.
The United States was founded on the belief of freedom of religion. Any religion. It seems that today that is just as much b.s. as it was then.
I love associating myself with the Washington & Jefferson mentality. The Constitution has protected our freedom and liberty for centuries. Do you have an idea for a better form of government? (Outside of a monarchy under our King, Jesus Christ).
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:23 AM
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I thought I had posted this earlier, but maybe not. Anyway- here it is again-
The Treaty of Tripoli was written by Joel Barlow, and signed on November 4, 1796 and again at Algiers (before a witness) on January 3, 1797. It was ratified by the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.
It was a treaty, signed by our president, ratified by the senate... I think that constitutes as somewhat binding.
As for 'by Christians, for Christians'- I'd call most of our founding fathers more Freemason Deists than I would Christian... Regardless- it seems clear given the whole 'freedom of religion' and the wording of this treaty among other things that it was intended for a secular government- regardless of the religious adherance of the populace and the founding members at the time.
Perhaps if the signers were Freemasons and Deists it was one of the first steps toward the erosion of our Christian Constitution. Non-Christians have been chipping away at it for hundreds of years. The treaty may also have been signed for some sort of political gain. Politicians have been screwing their constituents ever since there were politicians. Nonetheless, the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the framers of the Constitution of the United States of America were certainly dedicated Christians and the freedoms afforded us by the Constitution certainly reflect its Christian basis.
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:29 AM
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I love associating myself with the Washington & Jefferson mentality. The Constitution has protected our freedom and liberty for centuries. Do you have an idea for a better form of government? (Outside of a monarchy under our King, Jesus Christ).
"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416

"Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813.

"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Dowse, 1803. ME 10:378

"Our Constitution... has not left the religion of its citizens under the power of its public functionaries, were it possible that any of these should consider a conquest over the consciences of men either attainable or applicable to any desirable purpose." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to New London Methodists, 1809. ME 16:332

"It is... proposed that I should recommend, not prescribe, a day of fasting and prayer. That is, that I should indirectly assume to the United States an authority over religious exercises which the Constitution has directly precluded them from. It must be meant, too, that this recommendation is to carry some authority and to be sanctioned by some penalty on those who disregard it; not indeed of fine and imprisonment, but of some degree of proscription, perhaps in public opinion. And does the change in the nature of the penalty make the recommendation less a law of conduct for those to whom it is directed?... Civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States, and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. ME 11:428

Just a few quotes related to Jefferson's apparant opinion on religion...

As to 'a better way'- a theocracy is hardly a better way- not to those who value liberty and freedom. It was one of the things our founding fathers were trying to *avoid*. Besides- John Doe's "monarchy under Christ" and your "monarcy under Christ" could well be two very different things... I doubt many Christians would be happy with such a theocracy unless it followed their specific beliefs exactly...
Old 06-28-2008, 07:31 AM
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Erm saying you're a Christian doesn't make you a Christian, just as recorded history saying someone was a Christian doesn't mean they were.

History will record Tony Blair as a committed Catholic Christian, but he spent his term increasing possible ******** periods, was the head of a government that flagerantly introduced children to sex, promoted positive gay discrimination oh and er not to mention mass slaughter and lying. He was still accepted into that Church, despite all its "principles".

Saying you are Christian means nothing. Being Christian is something else. When the founding fathers were busy deciding which land belonged to who, whilst the remaining natives were swept into the gutter, I doubt God was smiling.
Old 06-28-2008, 07:50 AM
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Perhaps if the signers were Freemasons and Deists it was one of the first steps toward the erosion of our Christian Constitution. Non-Christians have been chipping away at it for hundreds of years. The treaty may also have been signed for some sort of political gain. Politicians have been screwing their constituents ever since there were politicians. Nonetheless, the signers of the Declaration of Independence and the framers of the Constitution of the United States of America were certainly dedicated Christians and the freedoms afforded us by the Constitution certainly reflect its Christian basis.
Quotes from George Washington...

"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than thsoe which spring from any other cause. [George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792]"

"If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists.... [George Washington, to Tench Tighman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover]"

"...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution. [George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover]"

"The blessed Religion revealed in the word of God will remain an eternal and awful monument to prove that the best Institutions may be abused by human depravity; and that they may even, in some instances, be made subservient to the vilest of purposes."

(George Washington's conduct convinced most Americans that he was a good Christian, but those possessing first-hand knowledge of his religious convictions had reasons for doubt. [Barry Schwartz, George Washington: The Making of an American Symbol, New York: The Free Press, 1987, p. 170])

(Washington subscribed to the religious faith of the Enlightenment: Like Franklin and Jefferson, he was a deist. [Flexner, James Thomas Flexner, Washington The Indispensable Man. New York, 1974: New American Library, 1974. p. 216])

(...That he was not just striking a popular attitude as a politician is revealed by the absence of of the usual Christian terms: he did not mention Christ or even use the word "God." Following the phraseology of the philosophical Deism he professed, he referred to "the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men," to "the benign parent of the human race." [James Thomas Flexner, on Washington's first inaugural speech in April 1789, in George Washington and the New Nation [1783-1793], Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1970, p. 184.])

(George Washington thought he belonged to the Episcopal church, never mentioned Christ in any of his writings and he was a deist. [Richard Shenkman I love Paul Revere, whether He Rode or Not. New York: Harper, Collins, 1991.])

I think it's pretty clear- again- that the intent was for a secular government, and that our founding fathers- at least to good extent- were Deist rather than Christian. But regardless of their religious leanings- even if we were to agree that the founding fathers were in fact Christian- it seems clear that they intended for our nation to be built on religious *freedom* and to be comprised of a *secular* government.

As to 'the freedoms afforded us having a Christian basis'... You believe that Christianity is given to the freedoms of religion, press, pursuit of happiness, right to own firearms etc. etc.? Care to provide Biblical support on that? *curious, not being snarky*
Old 06-28-2008, 08:42 AM
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Mama Bear;178142]"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416
Nice quote from a Christian. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28006

Quote:
"Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813.
So next time you hear someone say "I hate Christians because they always force their religion on me" think of good ole Thomas Jefferson.

Quote:
"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Dowse, 1803. ME 10:378
Remember, our founders had come from a land of religious intolerance where Bible-believing Christians were severely persecuted. Jefferson beleived that Lutherans and Baptists had equal religious rights and that one need not bow to the other.

Quote:
"Our Constitution... has not left the religion of its citizens under the power of its public functionaries, were it possible that any of these should consider a conquest over the consciences of men either attainable or applicable to any desirable purpose." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to New London Methodists, 1809. ME 16:332
In other words, all Christian sects were equal under the law.

Quote:
"It is... proposed that I should recommend, not prescribe, a day of fasting and prayer. That is, that I should indirectly assume to the United States an authority over religious exercises which the Constitution has directly precluded them from. It must be meant, too, that this recommendation is to carry some authority and to be sanctioned by some penalty on those who disregard it; not indeed of fine and imprisonment, but of some degree of proscription, perhaps in public opinion. And does the change in the nature of the penalty make the recommendation less a law of conduct for those to whom it is directed?... Civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States, and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. ME 11:428
Jefferson had a clear understanding of God-given liberty and that man had no right to interfere with that liberty. We must thank his understanding of the Bible for his wise conduct.

Quote:
Just a few quotes related to Jefferson's apparant opinion on religion...
As to 'a better way'- a theocracy is hardly a better way- not to those who value liberty and freedom. It was one of the things our founding fathers were trying to *avoid*. Besides- John Doe's "monarchy under Christ" and your "monarcy under Christ" could well be two very different things... I doubt many Christians would be happy with such a theocracy unless it followed their specific beliefs exactly...
Like it or not, our country started out as a type of theocracy. Take a look at the following state preambles:

Alabama 1901, Preamble

We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..

Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.

Arizona 1911, PreambleWe, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...

Arkansas 1874, PreambleWe, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, PreambleWe, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...

Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...

Connecticut 1818, Preamble.The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.

Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences.

Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...

Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... Establish this Constitution.

Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.

Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.

Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the St ate of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.

Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...

Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.

Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.

Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction .

Michigan 1908, Preamble le. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom establish this Constitution.

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:

Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Al mighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...

Montana 1889, Preamble.We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for theblessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.

Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.

New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..

New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...

North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance....

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.

Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man .

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other

Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution

West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...

Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution..

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 stateconstitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe,the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong! If you found this to be 'Food for thought' copy and send it to as many as you think will be enlightened as I hope you were.



(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)

'Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.' - William Penn
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:30 AM
arrexian arrexian is offline
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(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)
Heard of "hell" ?

Or "heresy" ?
Old 06-28-2008, 09:35 AM
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Your first quote- I'm not suggesting that Jefferson was *hostile* toward Christianity- in fact I have a feeling anyone during that period of history would have been publically opposed to it without consequence. What I am saying is that it seems clear that the intention was a secular government in which religion was not forced or ingrained. (Such as you say here "(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)") The point being religious *freedom*- not freedom of religion. However- the seperation between government and religion seems intentional and for the purpose of protecting both personal liberty as well as the freedoms for religion as well. (Which at the time would be predominantly Christian- with a strong following of Deist/Freemasonry- and has evolved to an even greater diversity given the 'melting pot' nature of our land.)

Yes- our founding fathers *were* escaping religious persecution- which is why it seems clear that they were trying to establish a nation in which the same would not be repeated.

As for the preambles- yes- most adhered to Christianity at the time. I consider these to be no more meaningful than the 'In God We Trust' printed on our currency. A token, not a mandate. And I wholly disagree with the US being a theocracy. All one has to do is to look around to see that such is not the case- and frankly- I'd think that Christians would be *thankful* of that fact. One man's theocracy is anothers prison. Unless the parameters of said theocracy were to line up precisely with your own, you would likely not view such as a beneficial thing. Even if it gave a cursory nod to Christianity. What if that theocracy were Catholic? Catholics are Christian- and yet many Protestant Christians take issue with Catholicism. (Hey- back to history again )




Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson View Post
Nice quote from a Christian. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28006


So next time you hear someone say "I hate Christians because they always force their religion on me" think of good ole Thomas Jefferson.

Remember, our founders had come from a land of religious intolerance where Bible-believing Christians were severely persecuted. Jefferson beleived that Lutherans and Baptists had equal religious rights and that one need not bow to the other.

In other words, all Christian sects were equal under the law.

Jefferson had a clear understanding of God-given liberty and that man had no right to interfere with that liberty. We must thank his understanding of the Bible for his wise conduct.

Like it or not, our country started out as a type of theocracy. Take a look at the following state preambles:

(Cut by MamaBear just so it wouldn't take up so much space in the requote! )

(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)

'Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.' - William Penn
Old 06-28-2008, 09:36 AM
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Heard of "hell" ?

Or "heresy" ?
Where does anything related to the function of our government address 'hell' or 'heresy'? The discussion is on the founding of this nation, not on what the religious mythos has to say
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