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Old 05-10-2011, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandad Prepper View Post
Isn't that the way we did it before all the government "help"? Children took care of their parents. Churches and charitable organizations took care of the needy. Going back to the basics could go a long way to relieving some of our social problems. However, when the donations are no longer deductible those organizations will most likely see a drop in their resources.
Yes, it is, and I am sure it was difficult for the family members that were "working." But the elder statesmen and women of the clan did plenty of work as well, cleaning, cooking, gardening, and childcare. Our society lost a lot by taking the route of the self absorbed twit.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:34 PM
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When Social Security goes down, two types of groups of now-destitute will form:

1. Old beggars lining the sidewalks
2. Geezers who still have their health, and nothing to lose...
Old 05-10-2011, 02:34 PM
DerrialBook DerrialBook is offline
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Originally Posted by desert wanderer View Post
You're mixing up entitlements such as welfare, with social security retirement and social security disability. Retirement we pay in to, disability we pay partially in to. ( one needs to work a certain amount in the life, to qualify).

Many simply are disabled and unable to work. SS retirement is basically a contract, so to speak. Both are more than the "government teet", as you stated.
Actually not so much. While most people assume there is some legal right to collect SS just because you paid a separate SS tax there really is not one at all. The original act was written in such a way as to give congress the right to change the rules at any time. This has been backed up by the Supreme Court more than once starting with Flemming vs Nestor back in 1960.

The way SS was setup is no different than any other Ponzi scheme. The people that invest at the beginning make out well and the ones at the end get screwed out of their money. We are now entering the end stages where people that have been paying in are not going to get their money back.

While there is going to be a lot screaming and pointing fingers the basic fact is that the math does not work out. There are too many people taking and not enough paying into the system and the numbers are just going to get worse from here on out.

I feel bad about anyone who is at a point in their life where they are depending on SS and have no other means of support but the writing has been on the wall since the 80's, I knew back then that there was not going to be any money for me and planned accordingly. Everyone else should have done the same thing. Hell I have been self-employed most of the time and paying in double and I am gong to be nothing at all from the program. Sometimes being the patsy just sucks.
Old 05-10-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnWStiner View Post
how terrible it would be if those people would have to get off their dead @sses and earn a living rather than milk the government teet.
I'm sure not all are dead beats.... Take for example a guy who has worked hard the last 20yrs as a industrial mechanic.... He has worked with an illness his whole life and now can't anymore! He's paid into the system, is he still a dead beat????? Cause I really don't feel like a dead beat!!!! Just saying.....
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel-W0LF View Post
While all tis is true, there is one thing that needs pointed out:

Those that collect SS collect FAR more than they ever contributed (on average), so in that sence it is in fact the govt teet.

I dont begrudge those that collect it, but I dothink they need to just cancel the program alltogether. Put out a 1 year warning:

WARNING in one year Social Security will be canceled.

Give people a year to get something lined up, then cancel the program entirely. I'm tired of paying for the previus generations benifits when it was the previous generation that voted in the politicians that raided the SS cookie jar in the first place. Now I'm paying for their mistake, and if it is not canceled soon, my kids will be paying for their mistake too. Let them pay for their own mistakes.
OK, so you are saying if I contributed $200 every month to a bank or other "institution" and let them keep my money for 40-plus years to invest or do whatever, that it isn't right that I would receive more than I paid in? I don't see being forced to pay the government $200 every month for 40-plus years and let them invest or do whatever with my money to be any different.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnWStiner View Post
how terrible it would be if those people would have to get off their dead @sses and earn a living rather than milk the government teet.
Uhhhh, my parents and grandparents worked for almost 50 years, sometimes multiple jobs, before they retired and started pulling SSI. Some of us have put many tens to hundreds of thousands into our SSI accounts and would like to see some of that back when we retire.

If I had my choice, I would have preferred to put that money into a private retirement account, but I didn't have the choice. So I don't think I am getting something for nothing.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DerrialBook View Post
Actually not so much. While most people assume there is some legal right to collect SS just because you paid a separate SS tax there really is not one at all. The original act was written in such a way as to give congress the right to change the rules at any time. This has been backed up by the Supreme Court more than once starting with Flemming vs Nestor back in 1960.

The way SS was setup is no different than any other Ponzi scheme. The people that invest at the beginning make out well and the ones at the end get screwed out of their money. We are now entering the end stages where people that have been paying in are not going to get their money back.

While there is going to be a lot screaming and pointing fingers the basic fact is that the math does not work out. There are too many people taking and not enough paying into the system and the numbers are just going to get worse from here on out.

I feel bad about anyone who is at a point in their life where they are depending on SS and have no other means of support but the writing has been on the wall since the 80's, I knew back then that there was not going to be any money for me and planned accordingly. Everyone else should have done the same thing. Hell I have been self-employed most of the time and paying in double and I am gong to be nothing at all from the program. Sometimes being the patsy just sucks.
Even though it might be a Ponzi scheme, the original premise was to force folks to save for their retirement. SS wasn't meant to be a complete retirement plan - just a supplement.

If the working force increased every year, there would be a possibility that the scheme might work. However, the actual number of persons employed in the US hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. With the larger number of people reaching retirement age, the scheme isn't going to work much longer.

Another thing that makes the scheme difficult to be successful is the other payments made from the collections. For instance, if a person is married for ten years, then the spouse can collect 50% of the amount received by them, whether the spouse ever worked and paid into the plan. It also doesn't matter whether they have been divorced. Theoretically, one person's payments into the plan could be taken out more than two fold by themselves and several spouses.

Sad to say, but it appears to be a typical government boonedoggle.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueechoFeecho View Post
SS is a pay-go system. No one has an account. The people that pay in now are paying for those that receive benefits now.
You have an account, with "credits". If people didn't have accounts they would all get the same amount, or some amount for every year you worked. You get SSI benefits for the number of months you worked and for the amount you earned during those amounts. There is a formula.

Is SSI a bad idea? IMO yes. The government has no business managing people's retirement funds, or engaging in any other activity that is a "social program", but those of us who have worked for decades and contributed to the program (albeit involuntarily), have earned to right to the funds we put in.

Don't worrying, given my genes, I will most likely die before I get out what I put in.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:34 PM
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the government's teet? those teet are yours and i, the taxpayers.

and they are not just hand milking us, it's a fr#@king kirby on crack!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWStiner View Post
how terrible it would be if those people would have to get off their dead @sses and earn a living rather than milk the government teet.
Old 05-10-2011, 03:39 PM
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When I worked, I brought home over 5000.00/month. My check is now 1869.00/month. I worked my a$$ off and paid very dearly into the SS plan and yes, I paid into a 401K for many years. So don't ass-u-me we are deadbeats because we are collecting what we rightfully paid into. I would dearly love to be working instead of getting my disability check.

Suzanne
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:18 PM
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i worked for 24 years before i became disabled.i`m not a deadbeat and would love to go back to work.unfortunately i can`t due to an accident,i don`t feel bad about collecting ssd because i paid into it.and believe me if you ever become disabled you`ll be glad it`s there for you.it wasn`t my choice
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:40 PM
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I may get hammered for this but for those that are currently disabled and collecting SS, how is that my problem? I didn't sign up to pay my taxes to take care of you or anyone else. My responsibility lies with my family and my family alone. I have no responsibility to you.

I should not be forced to pay into a system that is fundamentally flawed to start with and not only be paying money out to you but also to all of those that are not disabled or hurt in any way and they are truly milking the system for all that they can get.

If you can't work, that's what families are for. If you don't have any family, it still doesn't fall to the gov't or me to take care of you.
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:41 PM
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Glad I'm not the only 1 who to offense to the beat beat comment.... Went from 60k a year to 1474 a month.... I'd rather work because there is a big difference in what I use to make to what I get now.... But due to my condition I'm more of a liability, can't even get a job as a door greeter at Wal Mart (trust me I tried, LOL).....
Old 05-10-2011, 04:42 PM
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Entitlements will be paid before anything else as in the name, the government is required by law to pay this money unless the law is changed, which is what they'll be arguing about. So refusing to raise the debt limit would cause problems to be sure, but not necessarily for Social Security, at least not at first.

Defaulting on the debt is a much bigger possibility.
Old 05-10-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoreday View Post
I may get hammered for this but for those that are currently disabled and collecting SS, how is that my problem? I didn't sign up to pay my taxes to take care of you or anyone else. My responsibility lies with my family and my family alone. I have no responsibility to you.

I should not be forced to pay into a system that is fundamentally flawed to start with and not only be paying money out to you but also to all of those that are not disabled or hurt in any way and they are truly milking the system for all that they can get.

If you can't work, that's what families are for. If you don't have any family, it still doesn't fall to the gov't or me to take care of you.
I don't 'love' taxes but I think you're missing the point. I'm pretty sure you didn't sign up to pay taxes to fund the military or road construction either. I'm as anti-tax as the next guy but its a slippery slope down into anarchy with an unfunded government.
Old 05-10-2011, 04:51 PM
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SS is an entitlement program and Congress figured out a long time ago how to borrow against it. Those sleazebags in DC will borrow against anything and everything to fund all their little entitlement programs. Its just a matter of time before social security starts to really take a hit. I'd speed this up a bit, you know they will start borrowing against it more often. Even this graph puts it a little on the conservative side.

But no worries, they'll fix it. Dept of Treasury will just print up those bonds to borrow against it. Social security will be funded by treasury bonds which no one will want, which makes them worthless.

Old 05-10-2011, 05:42 PM
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Yeah, the oldies and the sickeys will be hurtin. But it`s when they cut the food stamps, section 8 housing and welfare that i`m really sweatin. America will become alot more dangerous.
Old 05-10-2011, 05:53 PM
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I don't give two flying fzzr's about social security. What I put in was given away twenty years ago to some old buzzard who only put in 1/10 of what he took from me; such is the way of the liberal mindset. I can't wait for it to all burn.
Old 05-10-2011, 06:40 PM
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Because I lived in numerous countries for various periods, I did pay into each county's system, but as it turns out, I'm not entitled to receive SS from any of them (USA, Netherlands, Britain, Bulgaria). I might get a little bit from Bulgaria in a few years. I am not counting on it, however. And I reckon that SS and pensions are going to be a "thing of the past" sometime not too far away.

I actually think that this system has made is weaker to some degree, and not as independent. I've been kind of preparing since late spring, early summer last year, and feel that I can survive now. Even if there is no money at all. This is a hugely liberating feeling, I can tell you and I feel less entrapped by "the system".
Old 05-10-2011, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWStiner View Post
how terrible it would be if those people would have to get off their dead @sses and earn a living rather than milk the government teet.
**********************

Since this thread is about seniors, I am wondering....would that be the same 70 and 80 and 90-year-old "dead @sses" who worked hard and had children who made it possible for YOU to be here to post your stupid comment????

Are those the ones that you want to jump out and work 40 hours a week now???? Nice that you begrudge people who worked hard all their lives and paid into that system their $600 a month SS checks that they struggle to live on.

Most seniors aren't the problem. They played by the rules of the RETIREMENT system. The problem is all the dead weight in the SS system that should not be there. The ones with the phony SS "disabilities" and the Mexican illegals popping out kids to collect on SSI. The SS system is loaded down with phony claims and is also being misused as a safety net for illegals.......and everyone knows it. Yet nothing is done.

SS was intended to be a retirement supplement for old people. It was never intended for younger people to misuse as a primary income to live on. Prune out the people who are not old enough to meet the retirement age requirement, and the system will be solvent.

Want to see an @ss with eyes?? Go look in the mirror.
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