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View Poll Results: Should kids physically defend themselves
YES 153 98.08%
No 3 1.92%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2011, 04:36 AM
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Wow, I'm the only one who voted no. A little surprising.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:36 AM
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I took loads of crap as a kid until about my sophomore year in HS. One day I reached the "Popeye point" - I've had alls I can stands and I can't stands no more. After getting popped, shoved whatever (don't even remember anymore) I lost it. I learned over the next five minutes that while some bullies will back down others will clean your clock. I also learned that there is no such thing as a fair fight and that the Marquis of Queensbury probably got hit in the back of the head a lot as a kid. Most importantly I learned to kick punch hit grab do anything in a fight. I lost that fight but the instigator was as bruised and bloodied as I was - pretty sure he still hasn't fathered children.
A few more times this happened with others and it soon became apparent that fighting with me was losing propositon.
Tell your kid to stand up for themselves but to be prepared for the consequences from the school as well as the physical consequences. It will get better eventually.
Tell yourself to be ready for calls from school and the odd lawsuit threat from trash parents.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:45 AM
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funny how our country can go to war (s), killing people, when we are threatened, but when we have a personal threat we get arrested or suspended for defending ourselves. kinda hypcritical don't you think?
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by nevadaexile View Post
Most schools have a zero-tolerance policy for violence and your son will get in more trouble than the bully.
Yeah, the cowards answer to not having to do ones job.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:57 AM
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I will NEVER tell my kids not to defend themselves. I agree that the school system needs some kind of an anti-bully rule in place, but they take it WAY too far.

My oldest kid is only 3 1/2.....but I have already drilled into him not to take any **** from anybody. Last summer we were at the park and some kid pushed him to the ground. My kid got back up and looked at me like "what should I do"? My exact words were "don't take that ****.....punch that little ******* right in the lips."

Needless to say the other kid's mom rushed in and grabbed her kid...gave me dirty looks, said "you can't tell your kid to hit other kids, that isn't right".
I said What, so your kid can knock other kids down and thats okay??
She just left knowing she was in the wrong.

In school, out of school, doesn't matter to me. I was raised to always stick up for yourself and NEVER back down. I will never discipline my kids for defending themselves. If the school wants to....that is their choice/right I guess. Hell, them getting suspended sounds like a good excuse to take a few days off and go play around in the mountains.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:06 AM
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We had that problem with both our boys. Our school district has a "zero tolerance policy" that doesn't stop bullying. At a young age i put both of them and my wife in a good okinawan karate dojo so that they would learn self defense.When my 16yr old was in jr high he was one of the smallest in his class(family trait) and in band so he was picked on verbally on a daily basis. We would talk to him on how to deal with that and shrug it off.When it escalated to physical the rules wher 1st) tell the kids to keep hands off and tell the teacher 2nd time tell them to stop and tell school admin, i would then also contact school admin and explain that i have told my son to defend himself if it happens again. When admin said he would be suspened for self def.my reply was good i'm sure our atty will have a good time with that as we are a zero tolerance school and you are aware of this bullying.3rd time knock the peckerhead on his a#$ which he did breaking his nose, no suspension no lawsuit because school and bully given 2 warnings.He never had anymore problems with bullies and is still in band(and now at 6' 3 probly wont in high school anyway) sorry got carried away
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Crunchtime View Post
There is a kid on the block who's kind of a jerk. He's been picking on my 5yr old and his friends. The kids parents are trash so talking to them is out. Ive talked to the kid but he's a smart ass. I'm pretty sure my son can take him, I've taught him a bit and he's got a good punch. I'm really not morally opposed to this, just wondering where it sits from a social stand point.
I recall when my son was about 11 years old and the neighborhood bully punched him one time too often. I took my son and we went down to speak to the daddy of the boy. I always taught my son to turn the other cheek but also taught him to defend himself when the situation warranted it. Turns out I quickly learned why the kid was a bully.

The daddy threatens me with physical violence. I simply reply that if he couldn't corral his bully son i would be forced to step in and put a stop to it. I politely told the bully father that if his kid hit mine again that the dad and I were going to go round and round. Well so happens he tells his son to hit mine right there in front of me and furthermore he was going to whip my arse if I didn't shut up leave and take my cry baby son home with me.

So at this point I grab the dad around the shirt collar and tossed him into the yard. He came up swinging wildly. I cold cocked him so hard he spit out some teeth. Never laid a hand on me. But by the time I finished with this bully he was telling his boy to not come within a mile of my son again.

Now I don't advocate violence and I taught my son that violence is not the answer but I will take just so much and make an exception like in this case. He didn't know I was very proficient in hand to hand combat with some offensive martial arts training to boot. He was overweight with a large beer gut.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by falconman View Post
a guy I work with (Wes) has a son. at school a few days ago, the school bully pushed him down, and his kid started throwing punches and beat the sh!t out of the bully. wes got home and yelled at him and told him he shouldn't have stopped until the teacher pulled him off.

FYI: Wes works at the county jail, so he's a pretty tough guy.

Voted yes, but also the above approach is equally wrong as doing nothing.

Defending yourself and beating the aggressor down is fine, but once you have "knocked them to the ground" there is no more honor in continuing and is not teaching proper restraint. Good chance kid will become a bully by being yelled at and poorly taught by his father. Very Sad

We are talking young kids here, they still have a chance to learn and change not hopeless adults.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:22 AM
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I havent read all the other post so if this sounds duplicated, I apoligize in advance.

As parents we need to teach our kids to stand up for them selves. If kids are taught to run to the teacher, whats going to happen when there isnt a teacher around. Is the kid going to be bullied into dope? Crime? where does it end?

Teacher cannot be around all the time. If my kids get expelled for defending themselves, and they are in the right, best believe they will be rewarded when they get home.

Turning our country into a Snitch Society!!
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by STEEPOE View Post
Wow, I'm the only one who voted no. A little surprising.
So you're my 1.20%? Care to weigh in why you feel I shouldn't?
Old 04-22-2011, 10:10 AM
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No one has a moral obligation to tolerate a bully, although there may be prudential reasons to tolerate them. For instance, if you run into a bully cop, you might keep your mouth shut because you have responsibilities to family you won't be able to fulfill if you get extended jail time.

But if you're a kid facing another kid bully, and the only thing you risk is getting beat up and kicked out of school, go fer it. Making bullies pay is just good citizenship, and has a civilizing effect in the community.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SnoMan View Post
No one has a moral obligation to tolerate a bully, although there may be prudential reasons to tolerate them. For instance, if you run into a bully cop, you might keep your mouth shut because you have responsibilities to family you won't be able to fulfill if you get extended jail time.

But if you're a kid facing another kid bully, and the only thing you risk is getting beat up and kicked out of school, go fer it. Making bullies pay is just good citizenship, and has a civilizing effect in the community.

Then you fry the bully cop... and believe me there are ways to get em gone... paybacks are a bitch and dope is cheap!!!
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by army1diablo View Post
I havent read all the other post so if this sounds duplicated, I apoligize in advance.

As parents we need to teach our kids to stand up for them selves. If kids are taught to run to the teacher, whats going to happen when there isnt a teacher around. Is the kid going to be bullied into dope? Crime? where does it end?

Teacher cannot be around all the time. If my kids get expelled for defending themselves, and they are in the right, best believe they will be rewarded when they get home.

Turning our country into a Snitch Society!!
Agreed...if they are taught to run to the parents or teachers and tattle everytime they run into a conflict they learn nothing except how to become a sheep. Whether it be a personal or public problem, they need to be taught to handle things themselves unless it is a big emergency or crime that actually requires police intervention, or they will become like the rest of the thousands of "sue happy" cowards out there that run to a lawyer or cop for every stupid little thing that spooks them. You know, suing for anything from spilling hot McDonald's coffee on themselves (that was a personal fav) to the neighbor's two Jack Russell terriers barking at them when they walked past the six foot fence they are enclosed behind...because it puts them in fear of their lives. I believe this nonsense started about 20-25 years ago when the PC crowd and DFS started pushing it's "you can't spank your kids" agenda or we will nail you for child abuse. This is when the tide turned against the parents, and many stopped discplining their kids and teaching them to stand up for themselves...you know, just call the law for every stupid little thing so we can avoid any scarey conflict. It began turning our children into the whiners that so many have become today. It's pathetic that our society has "wimpified" so many of the children from the last generation, and is continuing to do so with todays kids. I'm glad my family ignored all that PC crap!
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by STEEPOE View Post
Wow, I'm the only one who voted no. A little surprising.
Not a put down but why?
XR750
Old 04-22-2011, 11:57 PM
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Not a put down but why?
XR750
I'm wondering this to. A marine with a legal education who lives in Texas seems like the last person to vote no, seems he'd have a good reason.
Old 04-23-2011, 12:06 AM
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LOL when I voted it was 96 to 1. I think the "yes" has it
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Crunchtime View Post
So you're my 1.20%? Care to weigh in why you feel I shouldn't?
You bet - just from personal experience. I was always picked on, bullied, however you want to slice it. I wasn't any different - just one of those farm boys that hit the 6'5" mark before leaving elementary school. Now, my buddies, etc. never picked on me - always the older kids. Now, move ahead to my eighth grade year and I'm pretty comfortable with my height (keep in mind the farm boy) so I am a brooooooad shouldered and a kick ass athlete. Anyway, long story short a high schooler who I rode the bus with (didn't live to far away from me) kept going and going and going for years. Like many, I had a breaking point and I nearly killed him. While many here will think GREAT JOB!!! Not that case looking back (OR AT THE TIME) as my parents had to pay the hospital and dental bills which were substantial. I was big, athletic, strong and didn't stop (I even ripped a window off the bus and use that smashing his face) - I would have killed him had it not been for several pulling me off. Did the bullying stop - of course it did but thinking back he was the only one at that time giving me any crap about being big. I am easily distracted so I'll get back on point - it was very costly financially to my parents at the time and while I understand the child is five and not 6'6" 250 I get the difference and would only caution against telling your kid to cause harm. Teach the youngsters sure (self defense, boxing, etc.)- I just think as children we know when we have to fight - I wish my "incident" had happened a few years earlier...just a breaking point. Oh, have not grown an inch since then - go figure.

Just my two cents on my own history...not real proud of that one and a few others in my past.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Forster View Post
Defending yourself and beating the aggressor down is fine, but once you have "knocked them to the ground" there is no more honor in continuing and is not teaching proper restraint. Good chance kid will become a bully by being yelled at and poorly taught by his father. Very Sad

We are talking young kids here, they still have a chance to learn and change not hopeless adults.
In my view, if someone is being an a$$hole bully, you have every right to beat the sh!t out of them.

when he said that it was kind of a joke. what he did was say good job fighting back and good job winning. BTW, the teacher even said that she saw the kid push his son down.

Also, he's not a bad guy. he's a working, tax paying, mechanic who has never had a bad side i can see. Once you've worked on cars for 7 hours straight, not in an office filing papers, you should have the right to make a joke.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:23 AM
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STEEPO thanks for the insight. This is something that always concerned me as a kid, luckily I never hurt anyone that bad. This is why I'm teaching him when to know when to STOP a fight as well as when to start one.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:27 AM
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Nope, you should tell him to hit him repeatedly again and again until the stupidity stops.
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