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Old 04-16-2011, 02:23 PM
DElmer DElmer is offline
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Default Dodge 5.9L vs 6.7L diesel



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I did a quick search for this, and did not find anything. I apologize if this has been covered before.

I am looking for a used diesel truck (who can afford new anymore?), and have narrowed it down to the Dodge with the Cummins diesel engine. I have heard good things about the 5.9L Cummins, but haven't heard much about the newer 6.7L Cummins. Please give me your experience with either, or both, of these engines.

The truck will be an all use vehicle; daily driver, tow vehicle, hunting, bov, etc...
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:13 PM
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Have owned several and currently drive a 6.7 CTD. Plusses to the 6.7 Awesome trans,exh brake(works great) Tow/haul,Great power bone stock,extremely smooth and queit truck. Minus- terrible gas mileage(again bone stock,I like having the warranty)11-13 MPG average."Losing" the DPF and adding a programmer(to clear codes/prevent limp mode,usually adds 2-3 MPG.The Injectors are EXTREMELY sesnsitive to debris/dirty fuel and $$$ to replace.Maintenance on either(for that matter any) diesel is a must,use premium filters,premium grade oil and do NOT run them out of fuel.Other than the bad mpg,I love my newer truck,it does everything the old one did and then some.Any other specific questions you may have post up,I have towed a large(13.5K fifth wheel all over with mine,and LOVE the truck,in the mountains its a beast !
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Old 04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
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Thank you for the reply. Are there any obvious differences for a first time owner? I am by no means a mechanic, so ease of maintenance and long term reliablility are very important. I will have to make this truck last at least 12 to 15 years, if not more.

Does the 5.9L get any better gas mileage? Once I have a truck I will probably repost about the correct programmer to get, since I won't have a warranty to worry about.
Old 04-16-2011, 04:21 PM
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As far as I know, the 6.7 is basically the same engine with some upgrades form the 5.9...with that being said there are 2 5.9's...12 valve and 24 valve.

The best fuel mileage with definately be a 5.9...many see upwards of 20mpg even while towing and you just heard what the guy with the 6.7L is getting!

I've heard of a 5.9 (from a 96 dodge dually) that has over 1.6 million miles without being rebuilt! So there it is, reliabilty and fuel mileage. Seems to me the 5.9 wins hands down. If this will be partly for a survival scenerio vehicle you will want the mechanical IP, the "P" pump as it is called.

The best of all worlds would be to build you a truck from the ground up, I'd start with an 80's Chevy frame and body...a P pump 5.9 Cummins engine...an Allison transmission, Dana 60 Axle up front, NP205 transfer case, and a GM 14 bolt rear or possibly a Dana 80 depending on what gearing you would want.

That truck, even with a 1 ton (or more) frame and suspension will have the potential to get 30+ miles per gallon.
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:52 PM
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I have one more question on the diesel engines. Since I am buying a used truck, is there a way to know if the motor has been reprogrammed, or if any other engine modifications have been made? I am buying from a dealer for financing purposes, and won't know who the previous owner(s) was to ask them about it.
Old 04-16-2011, 08:30 PM
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I have a 99 CTD besides the newer 6.7( 24V Pre common rail engine) and besides the older 12V its probably the easiest/cheapest to maintain. The newer,common rail 5.9 as well as the 6.7 run an elec controlled clutch fan which makes even fan belt changes a PITA. Filters(fuel mainly) are little harder to get to on a CR engine and about the same on the 6.7 but more $$$ Lift pumps die on the 24V engines causing the HP inj pump to starve for fuel,ultimately killing it(think about $1500-$2000 depending on where you live) As for detecting performance mods,the dealer actually has a TSB on what to look for ! Common items not in any particular order,aftermarket or straight through(No DPF/muffler/resonator) exh,gauges,pyro on the pillar(or if the pyro is removed to hide,you will have a probe or 1/8 pipe plug in the exh manifold) Aftermarket "cold air kits" open element air filter setups.Look on the fusebox underhood on drivers fender for eveidence of velcro or sticky glue,taps in the fusebox,strange wiring under the dash,DLC connector on the engine missing the protective cover(perf chips tap into this)injector harness disturbed or significantly cleaner than rest of the engine.Lots of little clues,typically,buying from a private owner will give you a better story than a used car lot,no history truck.I would say 50% of the used diesels I see HAVE been modded,of those,probably 50% have been driven VERY hard and it shows even to an uneducated buyer.Pay a reputable shop,preferably diesel specialist to check the truck over mechanically before you purchase.It will be the cheapest part of owning ANY diesel truck. Oh and enjoy the new Dodge,I dont think you can go wrong with a 03-07 CTD thats been well taken care of !

Last edited by highpockets; 04-16-2011 at 08:44 PM.. Reason: added a detail.
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:45 PM
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I second highpocket's post, get someone with knowledge of diesels to look at the truck because as he said the majority of diesel owners want to "turn up" their truck or "roll coal" and will do all kinds of mods...possibly good or bad.

You might not want their headache!

I purchased a 6.5TD 98 suburban, the dealer or the previous owner dumped liquid glass in the engine to seal up a blown head gasket. I drove it for a month and added 8 gallons of coolant before I was able to work on it, just hoping they didn't add enough when they did the water pump (obviously new when I purchased it) as a suburban takes 6 gallons anyway.

With the glass, the engine was ruined anyway, but it left me with a 3 month $3,000 headache before I could get the truck on the road.

I do believe that the 6bt cummins is way more forgiving than a GM v8 diesel though.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:19 AM
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I still own the dodge diesel one ton I bought in 1989. It still get 22-24 mpg and still tow heavy gooseneck and 5th wheel trailers.

No electronics, pure mechanical injectors. Manual trans and reasonable RE ratio. I plan to repaint it and drive 20 more years.

Typically the 5.9L 12 valve engines last over 500k miles. I don't drive it enough to even approach that.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:04 PM
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Don't get the 6.7, get a 5.9. Terrible mileage on 6.7 and requires more maintenance. If you get a 24 valve, non common rail 5.9, there is a kit to get rid of the lift pump and put a fuel pump in the actual fuel tank. Have this done or risk the lift pump going out and killing the injection pump, which can be quite pricey.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyghost471 View Post
Don't get the 6.7, get a 5.9. Terrible mileage on 6.7 and requires more maintenance. If you get a 24 valve, non common rail 5.9, there is a kit to get rid of the lift pump and put a fuel pump in the actual fuel tank. Have this done or risk the lift pump going out and killing the injection pump, which can be quite pricey.
I would suggest looking at a FASS fuel system to eliminate the poor factory lift pump since this will give you better filtration as well as more fuel flow(volume) to the HP pump. The factory intank replacement is a bigger PITA than the original external LP,at least you can change out that one on the side of the road.NAPA stocks replacement LP at most locations and cummins dealers offer them as well.As an alternative,I would consider a fuel pressure gauge with low psi warning to hopefully prevent starving the HP pump. Good info overall ,what a great forum.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:40 AM
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Sorry,double tap !

Last edited by highpockets; 04-18-2011 at 12:41 AM.. Reason: hit submit twice !
Old 04-19-2011, 01:53 PM
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The big difference is whether you want to go with the pre-1998.5 12 valve Cummins v. the later 24V Cummins which has various forms of electronics in the FI system.

The 24V engines have more power and are quieter, but if you are worried about EMP or being able to work on them yourself, then there is the issue of the electronics.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:09 PM
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Let me say up front I AM NOT A FORD MAN. Growing up on a ranch in Texas if you did not have a Chevy you were a sharecropper.

Then one day FORD looked at Tx where they historically sell more trucks than cars every year and noted the Chevy outsold Ford and Dodge. Ford set out to fix that, they did.

34 years in a row Ford has outsold Chevy in the truck market in Tx.

I finally bought my first FORD truck and '09 model, LWB, crew cab F 350. Few months back traded* that in on a '11 F 350, LWB, crew cab dually.

* I got $500 MORE in trade in than I paid for the '09.

My '11 F 350 is the best truck I have ever owned, gets 14 mpg combined hwy/city and with 800 lbs of torque the towing and hauling power are truly mind boggling. This is ONE POWERFUL truck and its got air conditioned seats too.

Down here in S Texas, Kendall county its not just truck country, its Ford truck country and its F 250/350 anything else and its some guy in a suit 'n tie wantin to be rancher or a cowboy.

You will see a few Chevy's and a Doge or two. Most Dodges will be 3500's

Just saying here I am blown away by the new Ford engine. At the F 350 level in the past you could order out your Ford with a CAT, Cummings or a Detroit and the blue oval boys decided to build there own state of the art engine and IMO they did. Its made out of charcoal briquettes or something like that. BUT WOW what an engine.
Old 04-19-2011, 02:46 PM
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savage, I'm pretty sure the Ford engine is really an International/Navistar engine. Just like the GM diesels are really Detroit diesels. The parent companies just don't put their names on the engines like Cummins put on the Dodge's.

From the numbers that I've always seen when people talk about Fords being the number 1 sellers when you add up Chevy and GMC (which is the same thing) they beat Ford.

Back to the OP, read up on the 5.9 with the p-pump and the one with the VE pump and decide which one you want, personally I'd take the p-pump.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacherboy View Post
savage, I'm pretty sure the Ford engine is really an International/Navistar engine. Just like the GM diesels are really Detroit diesels. The parent companies just don't put their names on the engines like Cummins put on the Dodge's.

From the numbers that I've always seen when people talk about Fords being the number 1 sellers when you add up Chevy and GMC (which is the same thing) they beat Ford.

Back to the OP, read up on the 5.9 with the p-pump and the one with the VE pump and decide which one you want, personally I'd take the p-pump.
The Ford engine is all Ford, its not relabeled. I was hesitant to jump into a brand new motor from a company that did not produce a diesel. So why did I? I am an engineer and I did a LOT of research on this engine and I was sold on it from an engineering viewpoint. and so I bought. I may regret and if I do, trust me you will read about it, from me.

Even adding Chevy & GMC together it does not outsell the Ford F series.

Top 10 Pickup Truck Sales in April 2010
No. 1: Ford F-Series
143,985 +30.5% YTD
April 2010: 40,946
April 2009: 28,757
No. 2: Chevrolet Silverado
102,098 +8.9% YTD
April 2010: 29,618
April 2009: 26,437
No. 3: Ram Trucks
51,707 -20% YTD
April 2010: 13,665
April 2009: 17,903
No. 4: Toyota Tacoma
33,920 +0.9% YTD
April 2010: 9,407
April 2009: 9,027
No. 5: GMC Sierra
32,862 +6.8% YTD
April 2010: 9,360
April 2009: 8,273

Source: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/05...uck-sales.html
Old 04-20-2011, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacherboy View Post
savage, I'm pretty sure the Ford engine is really an International/Navistar engine. Just like the GM diesels are really Detroit diesels. The parent companies just don't put their names on the engines like Cummins put on the Dodge's.
The first few generations of Ford pickup diesels were Navistar and they made no secret of it, although they didn't make is as obvious as Dodge does. The later generation engines were/are designed and built by Ford.

There is often a bit of confusion over Detroit Diesel v. GM Diesel v. GM diesels.

First, Detroit Diesels started out as GM engines (but separate from their automotive divisions) - hence they were known as "Jimmys", later known as Detroit Diesel.

DD is no longer a GM product or company. Back in 1988 DD was spun off from GM as a separate company. In 2000 it was purchased by Daimler Trucks (AKA Freightliner).

Second, no DD engine was/is used in GM pickups. The diesel engines in the GMC pickups (GMC & Chevy) are Duramax engines, designed by Isuzu and built by DMAX (a joint venture between GMC and Isuzu).
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:09 PM
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Default 5.9 vs 6.7

Right now I own a 6.7 dodge mega cab 2500, nice truck but I HATE the mpg on that truck. Besides that it's a pretty good truck, picks up the ladies. Im new to this dodge cummins stuff and I hear that these 5.9's are better so I plan on getting one since it has better fuel mileage (from what i hear), and because I'm about to attend college so I need to spend less money on my fuel. I need help figuring out how to know if its a good truck or not before buying from these dealerships and if I should put a chip in it to make my mpg better ( not too worried about having warranty on the truck).
Old 03-26-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummins15 View Post
Right now I own a 6.7 dodge mega cab 2500, nice truck but I HATE the mpg on that truck. Besides that it's a pretty good truck, picks up the ladies. Im new to this dodge cummins stuff and I hear that these 5.9's are better so I plan on getting one since it has better fuel mileage (from what i hear), and because I'm about to attend college so I need to spend less money on my fuel. I need help figuring out how to know if its a good truck or not before buying from these dealerships and if I should put a chip in it to make my mpg better ( not too worried about having warranty on the truck).
I assume you are talking about the 12 valve v. the 24 valve and not just the engine displacement (yes I know the 24 valve was made in 5.9 liter config)?

If your only concern is fuel efficiency, then I recommend you stick with the 24 valve and keep your foot off the throttle - the latter being the main reason people get bad fuel mileage. The newer 24 valve Cummins engines make more power and they do it more efficiently fuel-wise, but if you are always sticking your foot in it the engine will happily oblige and suck down the fuel.

Take the truck, fill it up, then go out and find a flat straight long stretch of highway, set the cruise at 60 MPH and let it do its thing for a few hours, then check your mileage. You might be surprised at the mileage you get when you are driving a steady sane speed instead of trying to see how much black smoke you can make.

That said, these are not commuting rigs. If you are just driving back and forth to school and not using the truck to haul or tow something, then I suggest getting something that is a little more practical.

I have three rigs - I rarely ever drive my big truck because I don't need to haul anything with it (eventually it will get turned into an RV for when I retire). I drive my Toyota PU to work instead of my car because of the roads I live on (about 2 miles of potholed dirt/gravel roads) beat-up my car and because my car won't get out of my driveway when it snows. Going to sell the car this summer - even though I like driving it more and it gets 30 MPG v. the 20 MPG of the Toyota.
Old 03-26-2013, 06:05 PM
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The 24 Valve IS a 5.9, very different engine though.

I'm a 12 Valve cummins and 7.3 powerstroke kinda guy, everything else is scary to me.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
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The 24 Valve IS a 5.9, very different engine though.

I'm a 12 Valve cummins and 7.3 powerstroke kinda guy, everything else is scary to me.
The 12 valve Cummins 6B series is a 5.9 liter displacement.

The 24 valve Cummins 6B series engine was initially a 5.9 liter displacement. The 2007.5 model year the displacement was increased to 6.7 liters and a number of other changes made.

So when a person says they want the 5.9 liter Cummins engine in a Dodge truck, they can mean the 12 valve or the 24 valve.
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