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Old 04-05-2011, 08:08 PM
z man z man is offline
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Default Sheath knife/boy scout situation.



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I have a bit of a situation with sheath knives and boy scout regulations.

One of the B.S.A. rules is "THOU SHALT NOT HAVE SHEATH KNIVES" and that realy sucks.

So here is my situation: I am a 15 year old militant, who on boy scout campouts wants to exersize my contitutinal right to keep and bear sheath knives.

But the problem is athority. Acording to bsa rules sheath knives are a no no.

But thats not what I have a problem with... its my dad.

he wont let me. When I tried to reason with him he said that we were going to respect the bsa rules. then I pointed out that we break the bsa rules alot. so I dug deaper then he said it was about geting soued He says that if some one gets heart or killed and we are braking the bsa rules we can get soued and such and such.

He gets realy mad when I bring this up.

The B.S.A's modo is always be prepared.

Or it could be always be a hipacrite.

How can are modo be always be prepared if we are not alowed to bring the tools we need to be fully prepared.

What can I do?

P.S. I have not asked the scout master if I can take sheath knives.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:01 AM
Fatbastard Fatbastard is offline
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Quit the skouts, you obviously know better than anything they can teach you anyway.
Move out too, your old man is just keeping you down so he can feel better about himself.

OR

Respect, and play by the rules of the organization that gives you so many opportunities to learn stuff they quit teaching in classrooms decades ago.
Some of the rules may not be to everyone's liking, but they usually are created out of necessity from lessons learned in blood.
Really, you only have a few more years until you get to try everything the hard way, take what comes to you now. If you must master the fixed blade before you can drive, do it on your own time with your dad. Until you have your eagle, play by the rules and take the knowledge the BSA has to offer.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:09 AM
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I work at a school but I have to follow their rules when I am there. One of the rules is no weapons such as knives or firearms are allowed on school property. Even though I have a firearm, I can't take it on their property. If you join the organization, you should follow their rules. This is a life lesson as Fatbastard mentioned above.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:53 AM
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Respect the BSA and your father, they know better than you. Don't the Scouts advocate and teach the use of hatchets? A folding multitool knife (scout knife, swiss army, leatherman) and a hatchet is much better than just one big sheath knife anyway.

Or do the Boy Scouts now skin deer on camping trips?
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:56 AM
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Instead of asking the Scout Master if you can have a knife that is already prohibited by the rules, ask him what you SHOULD have.


Why does your father let you argue with him?
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Instead of asking the Scout Master if you can have a knife that is already prohibited by the rules, ask him what you SHOULD have.


Why does your father let you argue with him?
Why is a Boy Scout arguing with his father? Hmmm, maybe its not the subject of the argument, but the argument itself.

I have a 14 yr old son who knows much more than me and most other adults. Thats why he has so much trouble in school and its what landed him in a 'behavior modification' program that sure wasnt the BSA twice since he was 11 yr old.

Listen to your Papa, and trust his judgement. We ALL have to live by laws and rules we dont agree with. What counts is how a person follows those rules, not how he gets around them.

Now, on a side note, BSA says you cant bring sheath knives to camp activities, not that you cant own one. But thats left up to Pa and Pa has the final answer. PERIOD! GOT IT?
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:33 AM
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I HAD a Boy Scout sheath knife when I was a kid. They made an official one, don't remember who made it though, and it went bye bye long ago.

It was about 4" , had leather washer handle like USMC knife.



According to write up, it just said "official BSA" on one side and "made in USA" on the other.

Here's one from pre WWII even:



Anyway, kid ... part of life is obeying most of the rules all of the time, and breaking some of them some of the time. In this case, go with the flow and honor thy father, and just like in the military, obey the rules of the BSA you signed up for.

- OS
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:19 AM
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When I was in scouts, we went on a fishing trip. I brought my tackle box witch had a filet knife in it. It got taken by the scout master and returned to me later.

I say bring it, keep it hidden. If you need it its there. Dont flaunt or play with it and get it taken.

T
Old 04-06-2011, 07:37 AM
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Granted I'm a lot older than you but try walking around a Girl Scout camp with a sheath knife on (think Gerber LMF) and the looks I would get but nobody ever said anything to me. Now if I had one of my Ontairo's it might have been different. My wife had a g/s troop and I would tag along (or get dragged along) for some of their "camping trips" in cabins. I think I was the only one in the whole camp that had a knife on them and several times I was asked if it could be borrowed since no other leaders or scouts seemed to have one. On the other hand I have heard that even some Boy Scout camps no longer allow knives on their property - I guess due to liability. If asked though I would have removed it and put it up.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:09 AM
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I haven't checked lately but I think the BSA national safety guidelines do not prohibit fixed blade knives. I think they recommend that their use be limited to fishing (for filleting).

I think local councils or camps may have additional rules such as the blade cannot be more than 3"

But again I have not refreshed my memory so I could be wrong.

When I was a scoutmaster I had a rule against electronic entertainment devices on camping trips - i.e., no boom boxes, MP3 players, gaming devices, etc. I later relaxed the rule to permitting them if used out of sight with headphones on free time. My position was if you did not like my rule, go find another troop.

Sometimes you are forced to follow the rules and have no options. I doubt your knife is permitted in school, but again I could be wrong. In some crazy schools you probably would be suspended for just drawing a picture of a knife.

But as for scouts, as others have said, you have choices: follow the rule, argue for its change, or go join an organization that permits them.

UPDATE:

Here is the link to the National BSA Scouting Safety Guidelines. It just says sheath knives should be avoided.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...S/gss08.aspx#f

But as I said local councils or camps can have stricter rules, but you can at least argue that national does not prohibit them (although possibly there are other national guidelines so google is your friend).
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:39 AM
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I know when I was a Boy Scout(69-77) I had and carried a fixed blade/sheath knife. If I recall correctly BSA even sold a fixed blade and hatchet sheath combo. However you HAD TO HAVE a "Toting Chip" to carry/use them. For those of us that had the "Toting Chip" and could not travel to the "Official BSA" Store, we would substitute a small Case fixed blade similar to this....

Quote:
Specifications
379 (M3FINN SS)
Mirror-Polished Concave Ground
3 1/8" Clip Blade
Polished Leather Handle
Genuine Leather Sheath
6 1/2" overall; 2.5 oz.
Handecrafted in the USA
Of course it was different steel and sheath, but basically the same knife otherwise. So I know for a fact that Boy Scouts DID carry them in the past( I was Senior Patrol Leader). However things change. Times change. Rules Change. Liability issues change, causing insurance issues to change. Etc.....
One thing that Doesn't change though, You should listen to your Dad. Talk to him, yes, but ultimately listen to what he says...whether you like it or not. Ultimately he is responsible to you, and for you. Your Dad is doing the best he can with all of the knowledge he possesses.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:53 PM
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I agree he should listen to his Dad and the ScoutMaster. But as a 15 year old he can certainly have a reasoned and rational discussion with either or both.

As a scoutmaster the problems I see are that while I might be able to trust certain scouts, if I do it for some, I have to do it for others that also pass the Toting Chip requirements but who I may not trust. I had an ultimate responsibility that scouting is safe and fun for all.

Perhaps because I had a suburban troop, the issue was never raised.

Additionally most scout camps and facilities ban blades over 3" long and a scoutmaster does not have control over that.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:01 PM
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You will be better off learning to make do with less anyway. I know experienced bushmen who have never gone out with more than a swiss army knife.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:10 PM
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There is no question that a fixed blade is better for some uses. However there are multi-tools (not sure about plain folding knives as I have never checked) at least that will lock the blade in place and may be almost as easy to grip as a sheath knife even if slippery with blood or fish scales.

I suppose that wouldn't be as cool (or whatever the word is nowadays).
Old 04-06-2011, 01:23 PM
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The polisy could be you have to have your parents permision.

You can cary a hatchet a axe or a saw, all can be deadly if missused or used as a weapon.

One kid kind of carried a sheath knife on a camp out once and none of the leaders gave him trouble.

If I cant cary a sheath knife [I intend on carying one if posible and will not give up with out a fight] I will exploit the axe and hatchet thing.
Old 04-06-2011, 01:26 PM
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How can are modo be always be prepared if we are not allowd to bring the tools we need to be fully prepared?
Old 04-06-2011, 01:29 PM
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They are not prohibited, they are just not recommended. I worked on summer camp staff and wore fixed blade on my belt more often than not.
Old 04-06-2011, 01:31 PM
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There are some awesome small folders that would work for you. Pick one up and respect the group and you dad.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:31 PM
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I am going to sound like a bit of a prick saying this but at least it will be done and you can take it or leave it as you will.

You are young and are relying on somone elses environment and experience to learn and practice skills you may want in the future. So if they say you don't need a fixed blade then you don't need one.

Rolling up to these things with your own killfast bowie knife makes you look like a mall ninja. suddenly having an axe on your hip will do the same. Trust me on this.

pull your head in and learn something from this sort of training. You may not get another oportunity.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:43 PM
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I am a mallninja I dress like We are going to war when I camp sheath knives are a important of survival gear.

You say "I dont Need that".

Lets not gointo the gun control thing but dont liberals say "you dont need guns".

Besides havent you seen black hawk doun?

They dident think they would need all that stuf and see how that worked out.

Alright back to the subject
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