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Old 04-02-2011, 02:21 AM
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Default How Hard Do You Need to Harden Your Home



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A member here on another thread insists that

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Under no SHTF circumstance will ANY homeowner face an attack from a fullblown well-trained or even well-armed militia/army/crowd - whatever.. Unless you live in a freakin bank or superstore.

To even consider things of this nature is completely ASININE.
His assumption is that we only need to harden our homes or BOL enough to resist the rare home invader. That the military nor full scale armed mobs have never ever invaded civilians homes.

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If any of you can point out a situation where a home owner faced off against something of this nature, please educate me.. Not even in Haiti, L.A., Japan, Iraq, or Aghanistan has there been such an occurence
Rather than continue to see that thread derailed I thought we could discuss the need or lack of need to harden your home BOL against the possibility of a military invasion. So what are your thoughts? What level of risk are you hardening your home against. Do you think that the military ever invades civilians homes? Here abroad anywhere ever?
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Old 04-02-2011, 09:52 AM
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Not worried about hardening my home where I am as much as others. I say harden your home to the level that makes you feel safe without trapping yourself inside if you do get over run.

My view on things may not be aligned with the mainstream preppers. My theory is make it for you and don't worry what others think. My motto "Doing what I can with what I have."
Old 04-02-2011, 12:41 PM
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Not sure what else you feel we need to debate, I just want to see what others think. Your examples provided have nothing to do with what we are discussing. in a SHTF situation your not at war with an invading country or tyrants (Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa).. Those people will be trying to save themselves and families just as much as you will be.

All I am stating is yes you need to harden your home with feasible measures that are more function then focus and remain incognito. Doing this will prevent 99% of any attackers/looters/mad max/aliens, etc..

No need to plaster your walls, fill them with steel or bricks, to stop .50 cal rounds, no need to put military installation reinforced 20ft gates with roving patrols, and no need to have an arsenal large enough to wage a small war.

If you maintain OPSEC, turn your neon sign off that says "I HAVE FOOD AND PROTECTION", make it HARDER for people to gain entry to your home, and remain vigilant.

You will have accomplished home hardening for any SHTF situation. I am sorry I dont foresee any military or militia men driving tanks into my yard or mounting up ma dueces on my mailbox pole.
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Old 04-02-2011, 01:24 PM
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Good thread LongRider. Regarding that individual's response about NOT ever needing to worry about a SHTF situation where you might have to possibly defend your home against well armed crowds...that's pretty darn funny! Does he really believe that after a major country wide disaster or economic collapse, the unprepared, hungry, and well armed people in this country will politely come to your door and ask for a handout?! In a country such as ours where the majority of the population is very well armed...once the food begins to run out it would become very ugly. Normally calm civil people are capable of very aggressive violent action when they and their's are starving. The only option open to the ones that didn't prepare, and that will be the majority of them, will be to try and take the supplies they need from the people that have them! Guns are the only feasible way to accomplish this, or defend against it. Most places are not totally invulnerable, but they can all be improved upon.

He asked for an example, and though this country has seen many smaller natural disasters, it has never seen one that encompassed the whole country, such as Haiti experienced, so his request really isn't valid as we really have nothing here to compare it to other than maybe local diasasters such as Katrina, where there were many documented armed crimes against people. My family lived through the Dust Bowl in Oklahoma and it is the only thing that comes to mind that encompassed multiple states and caused economic failure. Though it was very bad, it did not cause immediate multitudes of deaths such as an earthquake, tsunami, a massive volcanic eruption such as Yellowstone. or an asteroid strike would produce, and it did not totally cut off food and water supplies. So, to the poster that doesn't believe this type of thing could happen...if and when one of these scenarios occur, go ahead and invite all those desperate starving folks to dinner, because after they dispose of you, they are going to happily take everything you have. Humans are the most calculating, cunning, and vengeful critters on the planet. We are the only species that kill for pleasure, sport, or revenge and unlike the animals that usually only kill to eat, we have the intelligence and technology to do it ruthlessly and efficiently for food, as well as for personal gain.
Old 04-02-2011, 02:39 PM
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Default Final Stand In Mexico

An unusual circumstance for the US, but not Mexico. After SHTF and you have a place someone wants?

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He defended his home like it was the Alamo.

A 77-year-old rancher gave drug-cartel thugs the fight of their lives when they tried to take possession of his sprawling property in northern Mexico, becoming a folk hero in a region ravaged by violence.

Alejo Garza Tamez turned his humble farmhouse into a fortress for his last stand -- lining up his numerous hunting rifles in windows and doorways -- after receiving an ultimatum on Nov. 13 from the drug-gang guerrillas to vacate within 24 hours or die.

The lionhearted rancher was ready when two truckloads of heavily armed gang members returned the next morning.

"He'd told me he'd gotten threats, but he didn't notify the authorities. He never trusted them," his daughter Sandra Garza told Telediario Nocturno.

Authorities said the cartel first rolled up that Saturday to Garza's ranch, located about 15 miles outside of Ciudad Victoria, to tell him the house he'd built by hand 34 years ago was on land they needed to expand their cocaine and marijuana routes to the US border.

Garza immediately dismissed all the workers on his ranch and told them not to come to work the next day. Then the hunter and gun collector gathered up every weapon he could muster.

He perched guns in the windows and doors, lining the floors with extra ammo. And he waited in the dark and silence.

It was close to 4 a.m. on Sunday when the distant sound of roaring engines came to his ears. The cartel members drove onto his property in large trucks, toting assault rifles and firing shots into the air.

As they clambered down, one of them shouted that they'd come to claim ownership of the ranch, and anyone left inside should come out with their hands up.

Instead, the sole inhabitant opened fire.

Pandemonium broke out, with terrified gang members diving for cover while Garza moved from window to window, picking them off one by one.

He shot so fast and furiously that the confused cartel assumed there were several people inside. Dropping their assault rifles, the thugs lobbed hand grenades into the ranch house until the shooting stopped.

When the Mexican army finally showed up after the gunfight, they found four dead and two injured gang members piled in a heap outside the shelled, bullet-pocked farmhouse.

Inside, amid a pile of rubble, was the lifeless, bullet-riddled Garza, two weapons at his side.
Old 04-02-2011, 03:18 PM
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I moved this from the other thread so as to not participate in derailing it further with my responce

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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
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This is where I disagree, and I think is a topic of debate for another thread. I read all of your posts their primary focus has been off topic, with your naive assumptions. Obviously you have not seen a mob in action, military or not they become a massive force. Look back at the LA riots there are memorial images of Korean's who had to use their AR & AK to defend their HOMES. Yes some were store fronts as many lived above their stores. Fact remains, their HOMES were under attack.

I believe that the it was peoples homes that were burned to the ground in Waco and Ruby Ridge.
dont think the house burnt down at ruby ridge just the family got butchered
Granted you are correct. The fact remains that Randy & Vicki Weaver were slaughtered in a military style sniper attack. Contrary to ratch3t assertion that it never happens. Had their homes been hardened against sniper fire they may very well be be alive today

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In DaFar civilian's homes are routinely invaded by armed military forces. Citizens are raped robbed tortured and murdered even eaten in their homes.
darfur is a 3rd world **** hole in africa and all of africa is rather uncivilized in how they deal with differences also whats happening in the sudan is the muslim/arabs are exterminating the ethnic minorities
Again fact remains that these are military attacks on peoples homes contrary to ratch3t ongoing assertion that
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratch3t
Under no SHTF circumstance will ANY homeowner face an attack from a fullblown well-trained or even well-armed militia/army/crowd - whatever.. Unless you live in a freakin bank or superstore.

To even consider things of this nature is completely ASININE.
Remember that is the inaccurate misinformation that I am responding to.

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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
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In Iraq military insurgents often invaded homes robbed them and used them for staging grounds or points of engagement.
think youll find thos insurgents wernt invading peoples houses but they were hey cousin hold this for me and when they get cought there like duded you see on cops this your crack nah dawg thats my cousins im holdin it for him
I think that in fact you will find that both scenarios are accurate. Most Iraq people welcome the regime change and are opposed to the insurgents but are forced to comply with armed military forces. Of course I have no doubt that you are correct some do in fact support the insurgents and allow them access to their homes. Again the point was to provide an instance where military forces invade private homes, contrary to assertions that it never ever happens anywhere in the world.
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Armed Military forces invaded homes in Nazi Germany.
ya either in fighting the germans who were in them or to ask for shelter
The Nazi invaded German citizens homes long before the allies got there. They routinely raped robbed and murdered people in their homes. As well as dragging them off to concentration camps from their homes.
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In the US, Japanese citizens had their homes invaded by the military robbed of their belongings and trucked off to concentration camps. Any who resisted were executed on the spot.
love to see your sources for that one
As stated in the other thread. My Grandfather was shoot eighteen times by the national guard when he refused to go to the concentration camp. He was obviously killed, his 200 acre farm and all the family possessions were taken. My aunt died from lack of medical care and malnutrition. My Grandmother never recovered from the poor medical care. My father and uncle enlisted in the all Japanese 442nd. Which remains the highest decorated division in US history with a 300% casualty rate. Not one single American Japanese was ever found to be a traitor spy or disloyal to the United States of America. Is that a good enough source for you? That I have personal knowledge that peoples homes are subject to full on military assault in the United States Of America. It does in fact happen, has happened.
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Old 04-02-2011, 03:21 PM
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I would not obsess about it. If someone wants to get in they will.
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Old 04-02-2011, 03:59 PM
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I plan on staying at home if things get bad. It's my home.
I also know that my home could be easily burnt down with a Molotov cocktail or two.
That's just reality.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:09 PM
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Not gonna waist anymore time on this, LongRider is obviously not even worried about the topic at hand about home hardening, you are simply on an anti-military rant.
Old 04-03-2011, 05:30 PM
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When considering hardening your home; Instead consider a number of feasible exit strategies. They will do more to prolong your life. The key to surviving a gunfight is to remove yourself from it.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:41 PM
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Can you harden enough to protect yourself against a mob or and army, simple answer...no
The best bunker can be breached, it is only the fool that thinks they can defend one home from multiple attackers hell bent on killing or taking your position when you are alone. A few well placed moltov cocktails can ruin your day,to defend against a handful yes it is possible and that level of security is advisable, but as George Washington found out sometimes it is better to inflict a little damage and then run away to fight another day.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:55 PM
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My home is not hardened much. But it's my perimeter that will pose the biggest problem to potential attackers. That's why I hold the high ground.
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:07 PM
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its hard to say, if someone truly wants to do harm to you and your house, they can get in given enough effort. Heck if the army wanted to get into your house, they could do so pretty easily. If this was soviet russia and they wanted you dead, im sure they'd just take a tank and roll right on through your house
Old 04-03-2011, 06:26 PM
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I don't put much stock in home hardening. I think that because most residential homes are not built for fighting, but for living in, and that the best place to confront an aggressor is as far away from your base as possible, it would be better to put the effort into diversionary tactics that will keep them away from your home.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:11 PM
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Hardening your home can have many different aspects. I agree building a moat with a alligators around your house is silly, but the majority of us keep our preps in our house. There have not been many SHTF situations in the US within the last 50 years. Yes, I know there have been natural disasters that turned into SHTF scenarios, but how many houses are broken into each day. To lose everything you have been stocking up would be a huge burden to the majority of us. I for one cannot afford to replace everything I have been buying for years. Hardening you home is a good idea for everyday security. How many gun owners do not have their guns locked-up in a gun safe. Just a different perspective of house hardening to think about.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:46 PM
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I will probably put my mind to use making innovative boobytraps rather than trying to put steel plates in my walls or whatever. I would probably make homemade claymore mines and connect it to a grid that I control powered by a car battery. Instead of inviting the National guard to my front door most of the hardening I do will be after the fact where I can scavenge ****.
Old 04-03-2011, 11:49 PM
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all you need is bars on your windows and a couple of bundles of sand bags, put the sand bags stacked under each window now you have a safe firing point. Have a couple of fire extinguishers handy, a role of chicken wire to nail or staple to the outside of your windows and done. Cheap effective hardening.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:21 AM
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The first fallacy, is that people will not kill you for the half-eaten peanut butter sandwich and can of Coke in your hands if things get sticky.

The second one, is that they will be a well armed, well trained army; and ready to die or take your home.


The infntryman86 is dead on this one. Cheap to do, and not too time intensive.

Buy a thousand sand bags, and turn a 25-40 foot area in your back yard into an 18 inch deep volleyball court. Only real preppers will know, and we promise not to tell...
Nobody needs to know why you put a 48" chain link fence around your yard either. If they do ask, tell them it keeps the neighbor's dogs from crapping in your yard.

ISS
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:53 AM
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You mean I will not be invaded by an army lead by a former copier salesman to get my Spam that they don't know exists?
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:30 AM
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Thats exactly what I have been trying to get across to this guy... Your not going to face a full blown attack in any SHTF situation by any military, militia, crowds.. Maybe one or 2 burglars here or there, thats it.

If you don't have a big sign on your house saying you have a million dollars, food, and safety.. Why would anyone pick YOUR house to invade when you look no different than the next.

Its such a mall-ninja, fambo (fake rambo) illusion that anything of the sort would happen.

And as said before, unless you live in a bank, a superstore, a mansion, or have a huge sign saying you have food, safety, protection, or free hookers.. Your most likely not going to be messed with by anyone, much less a strike force.
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