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Old 06-26-2013, 08:45 AM
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I have hunted critters with both calibers, and both are equal at killing, provided the shot is placed where it needs to be.

Elk and bear dont stand a chance again either. (Doesnt matter if it,s a 200gr bullet pushed out of a 30-06 or a 168gr bullet pushed out of a 308)

The elk and bear I have taken didnt go anywheres after being struck with a 168gr SGK projectile. Contrary to some...... there isnt a critter in North America that is bullet proof again either caliber.

With today's bullet selection, one can find any type for any critter desired to target, and be just as effective.

The logical way for one to look at this is from time at a range behind both.

It is simple preference. Long action vs short action in the case of the OP, as he is lookin at both calibers in the same rifle.

If possible, shoot some of the various types of ammunition that's best suited for the types of animals ya wanna hunt.

Shot placement trumps everything else, so with that.........which caliber do you shoot the best with? Are you just as precise with either?

Last........ I cant say if the Savage Axis is a good rifle or not, as I have no hands on with that specific rifle.


The Savage Model 16 / nikon scope pkg I seen on another thread here was resonably priced, and is the route I would take for either caliber.

11b
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:47 AM
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I had several .308/7.62 rifles in the past and have a supply of ammunition on hand. At present I too want a bolt action budget deer rifle with about a 300 yard capability. I wanted to go with the Savage line for their cost effectiveness and accuracy reputation. The Axis/Edge models were my first thought and WalMart had good prices for the basic rifle or rifle/scope combo. In the end I found a Savage Model10 combo in .308 that became the hunting rifle of the house. In my research the M10 is simply a little more upscale than the budget Axis/Edge models.

I preferred the .308 ONLY because of my past experience with several of the semi-auto military types I have owned and the ammo on hand. The 30.06 option is something I would not mind having as well. In fact the budget friendly cost of the Savage line will allow me to own one of each down the road.

Bottom line...buy both!
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
I have hunted critters with both calibers, and both are equal at killing, provided the shot is placed where it needs to be.

Elk and bear dont stand a chance again either. (Doesnt matter if it,s a 200gr bullet pushed out of a 30-06 or a 168gr bullet pushed out of a 308)

The elk and bear I have taken didnt go anywheres after being struck with a 168gr SGK projectile. Contrary to some...... there isnt a critter in North America that is bullet proof again either caliber.

With today's bullet selection, one can find any type for any critter desired to target, and be just as effective.

The logical way for one to look at this is from time at a range behind both.

It is simple preference. Long action vs short action in the case of the OP, as he is lookin at both calibers in the same rifle.

If possible, shoot some of the various types of ammunition that's best suited for the types of animals ya wanna hunt.

Shot placement trumps everything else, so with that.........which caliber do you shoot the best with? Are you just as precise with either?

Last........ I cant say if the Savage Axis is a good rifle or not, as I have no hands on with that specific rifle.


The Savage Model 16 / nikon scope pkg I seen on another thread here was resonably priced, and is the route I would take for either caliber.

11b
It depends on what kinds of critters we're talking about here. Deer. Yes both are perfectly capable. For larger game that's where the rounds start to separate themselves. You're more limited with the 308.

There's a fairly large difference between a 165 gr 308 load hovering at 2700 fps and a 200 gr 30-06 load at 2600-2650 fps.

The downrange energy from the heavier 30-06 loads are tilted pretty significantly in its favor. The heavy 180-200 gr 30-06 loads have a significantly higher BC than the lighter 308 loads and aren't going much if any slower at all at the muzzle. Down range is where you start to see the 30-06 have a decided advantage with heavy loads.

Like I said earlier, the 308 is optimized for 150-165 gr loads, while the 30-06 generates more muzzle velocity as you increase bullet weight. A factory 180 gr 30-06 load generates over 2900 ft/lbs of energy.

Where you really start to see a big difference is when handloading. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

When the 308 Win, 30-06, and 300 Win Mag are loaded to the max, the 30-06 is exactly right in the middle between the 308 and 300 Win Mag.

Yet you never here people say there isnt' a lick of difference between the 30-06 and 300 Win Mag. The 30-06 is simply a larger case and generates more velocity with bullets of all weights. It handles heavier bullets much better than 308 Win. That is an absolute fact. It isn't opinion.

I find the 308 pointless as a sporting round. For deer the 270 generates similar recoil but carries energy better down range and shoots flatter. For large game, the 30-06, 7mm and 300 Magnums are better options. I've frankly never seen the point in the 308 as a sporting round. I don't feel the need for a 30 cal deer rifle and like a flatter trajectory. I find the 308 a little light for large game like Elk and Moose. Will it kill an Elk or Moose at reasonable range with a good shot presentation? Yes. But those conditions don't always present themselves in the field.

The 30-06 shoots heavier bullets at the same speed as lighter bullets from the 308. I don't understand why so many people see that as being so trivial. How much simpler can you get than that? A hot 308 load pushes a 180 gr bullet to 2600 fps. A hot 30-06 load pushes that bullet to 2800 fps(easily achievable by a handloader). A hot 300 WM pushes that pullet to 3000 fps. The 30-06 is exactly halfway between the 300 WM and 308. It is a stouter round than the 308.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:42 PM
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Buy the Axis in .308, you could do a lot worse.
Old 07-01-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jida View Post
I am seriously confused on the public turning on the Axis line of rifles. Unless all of the people that are doing so are bench rest queens arguing over which lube is more accurate.
Haters gotta hate.
Old 07-01-2013, 10:15 PM
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Show me a Savage that has iron sights, and a 10 round box mag for under
$600 and I'll stop disliking them.

Even the Axis Youth doesn't have open/iron sights.

WTF?
Old 07-01-2013, 10:22 PM
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Show me a Savage that has iron sights, and a 10 round box mag for under
$600 and I'll stop disliking them.

Even the Axis Youth doesn't have open/iron sights.

WTF?
Well, true enough, but the op does seem to imply interest in a scoped rifle. That kinda makes irons a moot point doesn't it?
Old 07-01-2013, 10:30 PM
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First, I would always choose 30-06 over 308 due to availability. There's tons of surplus 30-06 out there. Currently I have 1950's Kynock surplus ammo from England.

Second, why not look for a used rifle? I was looking for a new bolt-action 30-06 last year when I walked into my LGS with the same questions. Then he showed me a 1959 Remington Woodmaster in 30-06. It was a safe queen with light storage wear and original sling. $200 out the door.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:31 PM
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Well, true enough, but the op does seem to imply interest in a scoped rifle. That kinda makes irons a moot point doesn't it?
If that's all the person wants then yeah it's a moot point.

Honestly I want to like Savage but I just don't.
Maybe they will come out with something that changes that.

Why they don't take the 11/111 Hog Hunter, add a box
to it and drop the accutrigger is irritating to me.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by strat1080 View Post
It depends on what kinds of critters we're talking about here. Deer. Yes both are perfectly capable. For larger game that's where the rounds start to separate themselves. You're more limited with the 308.

There's a fairly large difference between a 165 gr 308 load hovering at 2700 fps and a 200 gr 30-06 load at 2600-2650 fps.

The downrange energy from the heavier 30-06 loads are tilted pretty significantly in its favor. The heavy 180-200 gr 30-06 loads have a significantly higher BC than the lighter 308 loads and aren't going much if any slower at all at the muzzle. Down range is where you start to see the 30-06 have a decided advantage with heavy loads.

Like I said earlier, the 308 is optimized for 150-165 gr loads, while the 30-06 generates more muzzle velocity as you increase bullet weight. A factory 180 gr 30-06 load generates over 2900 ft/lbs of energy.

Where you really start to see a big difference is when handloading. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

When the 308 Win, 30-06, and 300 Win Mag are loaded to the max, the 30-06 is exactly right in the middle between the 308 and 300 Win Mag.

Yet you never here people say there isnt' a lick of difference between the 30-06 and 300 Win Mag. The 30-06 is simply a larger case and generates more velocity with bullets of all weights. It handles heavier bullets much better than 308 Win. That is an absolute fact. It isn't opinion.

I find the 308 pointless as a sporting round. For deer the 270 generates similar recoil but carries energy better down range and shoots flatter. For large game, the 30-06, 7mm and 300 Magnums are better options. I've frankly never seen the point in the 308 as a sporting round. I don't feel the need for a 30 cal deer rifle and like a flatter trajectory. I find the 308 a little light for large game like Elk and Moose. Will it kill an Elk or Moose at reasonable range with a good shot presentation? Yes. But those conditions don't always present themselves in the field.

The 30-06 shoots heavier bullets at the same speed as lighter bullets from the 308. I don't understand why so many people see that as being so trivial. How much simpler can you get than that? A hot 308 load pushes a 180 gr bullet to 2600 fps. A hot 30-06 load pushes that bullet to 2800 fps(easily achievable by a handloader). A hot 300 WM pushes that pullet to 3000 fps. The 30-06 is exactly halfway between the 300 WM and 308. It is a stouter round than the 308.
I dont understand why some quote others, but dont bother to read the post they quote? None of the calibers you mentioned are "trivial", and I never said that the 2 in question were either.

But....I'll say this again.......

Shot placement trumps all when it comes to shooting any critter in the field. Bullet size, type, speed, in any of the calibers mentioned above, to include 308 and 30-06 will be far less effective if they arent put where they need to go.... to include shot presentation.

With that being said, quoting muzzle velocities off the internet wont mean diddly if someone goes to buy a rifle in a given caliber only to find out that said rifle doesnt shoot the hottest load with the biggest chunk of lead he can stuff in it...vs another load that is optimal for precision in a specific rifle.
This is why I feel that the logical way to look at this is to take both out for a spin, and try out the various loads that you want to use for hunting, and will also give folks new to both calibers a feel for how they shoot for themselves. ( Not how they shoot for me, or you.)

Your "absolute facts" are irrelevent for the purpose of this debate, as every single caliber mentioned by you (to include 308) will kill anything in North America, because all of them are big enough, and are moving fast enough to get it done..........................provided............ .......
THE BULLET IS PLACED CORRECTLY.

( In other words...... the difference in your figures between 165gr 308 case next to 200gr 30-06 case doesnt matter, as either will kill large game inside this continent...... although I do disagree with you here, as 35 grains more at 100fps less does not amount to a hill of beans when hunting something.........and I used to think all this as super important until enough 1st hand experience at it showed me otherwise.....)

But..... if you can successfully revive the elk/bear I have already shot with a 308 rifle, then I might change my mind

The only thing "limiting" me from hunting moose has nothing to do with the caliber, but more about what I do for a living, vs time, $$, and orders via UncleSam.

I have hunted elk/bear with both. Have you?

11B
Old 07-17-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fragout View Post
I dont understand why some quote others, but dont bother to read the post they quote? None of the calibers you mentioned are "trivial", and I never said that the 2 in question were either.

But....I'll say this again.......

Shot placement trumps all when it comes to shooting any critter in the field. Bullet size, type, speed, in any of the calibers mentioned above, to include 308 and 30-06 will be far less effective if they arent put where they need to go.... to include shot presentation.

With that being said, quoting muzzle velocities off the internet wont mean diddly if someone goes to buy a rifle in a given caliber only to find out that said rifle doesnt shoot the hottest load with the biggest chunk of lead he can stuff in it...vs another load that is optimal for precision in a specific rifle.
This is why I feel that the logical way to look at this is to take both out for a spin, and try out the various loads that you want to use for hunting, and will also give folks new to both calibers a feel for how they shoot for themselves. ( Not how they shoot for me, or you.)

Your "absolute facts" are irrelevent for the purpose of this debate, as every single caliber mentioned by you (to include 308) will kill anything in North America, because all of them are big enough, and are moving fast enough to get it done..........................provided............ .......
THE BULLET IS PLACED CORRECTLY.

( In other words...... the difference in your figures between 165gr 308 case next to 200gr 30-06 case doesnt matter, as either will kill large game inside this continent...... although I do disagree with you here, as 35 grains more at 100fps less does not amount to a hill of beans when hunting something.........and I used to think all this as super important until enough 1st hand experience at it showed me otherwise.....)

But..... if you can successfully revive the elk/bear I have already shot with a 308 rifle, then I might change my mind

The only thing "limiting" me from hunting moose has nothing to do with the caliber, but more about what I do for a living, vs time, $$, and orders via UncleSam.

I have hunted elk/bear with both. Have you?

11B
I'm not sure I follow you. I'm not referring to the calibers mentioned as trivial. I take issue with people thinking the differences between the 30-06 and 308 as trivial. Like I said, if you own rifles chambered for all three rounds, you'll find that max loads will place the 30-06 precisely in the middle between the 308 and 300 WM. But according to a bunch of folks there isn't a lick of difference between the two. I suppose I could say there isn't a lick of difference between the 30-06 and 300 WM. That doesn't make it true.

You're post makes no sense. If anything all you did was make my case for me.

What you say is true. The most potent load isn't and in most cases isn't the most accurate. That is why the 30-06 is such a great cartridge and why its so popular. It is powerful enough to do darn near anything without having to load to max. If the 308 isn't loaded to the absolute max all of a sudden its not as great as many people think it is. Sometimes the sweet spot is a couple grains below max. In the 308 that might leave you shooting 165 gr bullets at a paltry 2600 fps.

My point was that you can safely load the 30-06 to nip at the heels of 300 WM performance. Reloading data is rather conservative for the 30-06 due to the fact that there are some old rifles out there. Dont' believe me. Go to Hodgdon's website and compare published data and pressure for the 30-06 and 270. The 270 is running higher pressures even though it uses the its parent 30-06 case necked down to 277 caliber.

It is EASY to improve upon factory 30-06 ammunition as a reloader. That isn't the case for the 308. It just isn't nearly as flexible as the 30-06. A 180 gr 30-06 bullet at 2700 fps is just a classic combination of power, trajectory, and down range energy for all North American game. A reloader can easily bump that up to 2800 fps. That gives you well over 3,000 ft/lbs of energy. That is 7mm Magnum performance right there. Easily attainable by any reloader. The 308 just can't match that. The classic combination is 4350 powder for 165-180 gr loads and in most rifles the magic combination is near max. I've grown quite fond of a 200 gr Elk load I've developed. You'll be amazed how much down range energy that load retains with its super high BC near .600. It drops about as much as a 150 gr 308 bullet but has about 1800 ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards.

I see over and over in this forum how the 308 is supposedly a super popular highly available cartridge. Most folks that I know with a bolt action here in Colorado actually hunting big game tote a a 30-06, 270, 7mm Mag or 300 WM. 308 isn't actually all that available in my neck of the woods. It seems most folks who use a 308 use them in semi-autos. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The 308 is pointless to me as a sporting round. It doesn't quite pack the punch of the classic big game rounds (30-06, 270, 7mm Mag, and 300 WM) and to me a 30 cal rifle isn't needed for deer.

I'm not saying anybody should choose a 30-06 over a 308. Just that, depending on the person's needs, there are other options out there. If I'm hunting deer, something like a 270 has the same recoil, shoots flatter, and carries greater down range energy. A 243 is very soft shooting and is adequate for deer and predators. A 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag or 300 WM are good all around rifles for all of North American hunting, including combination hunts. For large game like Elk I prefer bullets with stout sectional density and prefer the velocities to stay up in the 2700-2800+ fps range. The 308 doesn't those criteria for me. Some people love it but its just not my cup of tea.

If I'm hunting deer I don't need a 30 cal rifle. If I'm hunting large game like Elk I like a rifle in the 3000 ft/lbs of energy class. I know some will disagree but I find the 308 to be a highly overrated sporting round.

Shot placement isn't always controllable in the field. Sometimes you have to take a quartering shot or other difficult shots. The 30-06 can shoot heavier bullets that are more aptly suited to that task at the same velocity as the 308 with lighter bullets. It would be a nice world if game animals always stood broadside to us. That doesn't happen in the real world though. A 243 will put down any game animal in North America in ideal circumstances with good shot placement. I've spent my entire life here in the Rocky Mountains. The 308 just doesn't seem all that popular as a hunting round here. Elk guides aren't particularly fond of it.

Just my .02
Old 07-18-2013, 12:05 AM
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I'm not sure I follow you. I'm not referring to the calibers mentioned as trivial. I take issue with people thinking the differences between the 30-06 and 308 as trivial. Like I said, if you own rifles chambered for all three rounds, you'll find that max loads will place the 30-06 precisely in the middle between the 308 and 300 WM. But according to a bunch of folks there isn't a lick of difference between the two. I suppose I could say there isn't a lick of difference between the 30-06 and 300 WM. That doesn't make it true.

You're post makes no sense. If anything all you did was make my case for me.

What you say is true. The most potent load isn't and in most cases isn't the most accurate. That is why the 30-06 is such a great cartridge and why its so popular. It is powerful enough to do darn near anything without having to load to max. If the 308 isn't loaded to the absolute max all of a sudden its not as great as many people think it is. Sometimes the sweet spot is a couple grains below max. In the 308 that might leave you shooting 165 gr bullets at a paltry 2600 fps.

My point was that you can safely load the 30-06 to nip at the heels of 300 WM performance. Reloading data is rather conservative for the 30-06 due to the fact that there are some old rifles out there. Dont' believe me. Go to Hodgdon's website and compare published data and pressure for the 30-06 and 270. The 270 is running higher pressures even though it uses the its parent 30-06 case necked down to 277 caliber.

It is EASY to improve upon factory 30-06 ammunition as a reloader. That isn't the case for the 308. It just isn't nearly as flexible as the 30-06. A 180 gr 30-06 bullet at 2700 fps is just a classic combination of power, trajectory, and down range energy for all North American game. A reloader can easily bump that up to 2800 fps. That gives you well over 3,000 ft/lbs of energy. That is 7mm Magnum performance right there. Easily attainable by any reloader. The 308 just can't match that. The classic combination is 4350 powder for 165-180 gr loads and in most rifles the magic combination is near max. I've grown quite fond of a 200 gr Elk load I've developed. You'll be amazed how much down range energy that load retains with its super high BC near .600. It drops about as much as a 150 gr 308 bullet but has about 1800 ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards.

I see over and over in this forum how the 308 is supposedly a super popular highly available cartridge. Most folks that I know with a bolt action here in Colorado actually hunting big game tote a a 30-06, 270, 7mm Mag or 300 WM. 308 isn't actually all that available in my neck of the woods. It seems most folks who use a 308 use them in semi-autos. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The 308 is pointless to me as a sporting round. It doesn't quite pack the punch of the classic big game rounds (30-06, 270, 7mm Mag, and 300 WM) and to me a 30 cal rifle isn't needed for deer.

I'm not saying anybody should choose a 30-06 over a 308. Just that, depending on the person's needs, there are other options out there. If I'm hunting deer, something like a 270 has the same recoil, shoots flatter, and carries greater down range energy. A 243 is very soft shooting and is adequate for deer and predators. A 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag or 300 WM are good all around rifles for all of North American hunting, including combination hunts. For large game like Elk I prefer bullets with stout sectional density and prefer the velocities to stay up in the 2700-2800+ fps range. The 308 doesn't those criteria for me. Some people love it but its just not my cup of tea.

If I'm hunting deer I don't need a 30 cal rifle. If I'm hunting large game like Elk I like a rifle in the 3000 ft/lbs of energy class. I know some will disagree but I find the 308 to be a highly overrated sporting round.

Shot placement isn't always controllable in the field. Sometimes you have to take a quartering shot or other difficult shots. The 30-06 can shoot heavier bullets that are more aptly suited to that task at the same velocity as the 308 with lighter bullets. It would be a nice world if game animals always stood broadside to us. That doesn't happen in the real world though. A 243 will put down any game animal in North America in ideal circumstances with good shot placement. I've spent my entire life here in the Rocky Mountains. The 308 just doesn't seem all that popular as a hunting round here. Elk guides aren't particularly fond of it.

Just my .02
No problem here. 30-06 is a very capable caliber no doubt about it. I respect your preferences in what you feel is the most desirable caliber to hunt whatever you want to hunt.

My point was simply that a rifle chambered in 308 can kill an elk just as dead, and with less felt recoil than my 30-06 delivers.

( To be forthcoming here, my rifle chambered in 308 was an M14S, (not a Savage Axis)..... as I don't wanna leave anything out.)
FWIW.... My elk didnt present me with a broadside shot, so I simply repositioned, and then shot um. DRT with 1 well placed 168gr projectile at 165 meters (180 yds) if memory serves.

1st hand experience here.

Next up........

Alonzo Winters dropped a world record typical bull elk with his Savage Model 99 chambered in 308. ( Long before bullets such as the Barnes TSX were introduced). He shot it in 1968.

http://www.kingsoutdoorworld.com/sto...ters_story.htm

More examples.......
George killed a large South African Kudu ( A good sized elk like critter with a tougher hide) using 168gr DPX Corbon load chambered in 308.

A bull elk taken in NV (area 231) at a distance of 655yds with a very well built rifle chambered in 308.

A (360 BnC) bull elk taken at 447 meters (488 yards) with a 308 chambered rifle.

6x6 bull elk shot dead at 268 meters (293 yds) with a 308 chambered rifle.

I know. Extreme examples, but this is why some folks underestimate calibers such as this one.

The Op is looking at both, and either would be sufficient for hogs, deer, black bear, elk, etc...... from my experience at using both calibers for hunting.

If elk are somehow tougher in CO, vs everywhere else...... then ya got me, as I will not hunt there for reasons that do not pertain to this paticular thread.

In short..... I do not disagree with your bullet weight/muzzle velocity comparison of the 2 cartridges in question here.

I will agree to disagree with you concerning the ability of both to kill an "unarmored" elk, as both do it just fine.... provided that the nutt behind the butt does their part.....ie..... select what suits them, and what they shoot well with.

While both of us have no way of knowing what is available locally in every little area of all the States, 30-06 and 308 are easy to find for sale online. ( Gunbot for example)

I also respectfully disagree with you about shot placement in the field, but that has little to do with this thread, so I'll leave it at that.

11B
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:49 AM
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I am one of those that consider the .308 and the .30-06 to be pretty much the same. There is a caveat however. The .308 was designed to replicate the .30 service round (30-06) in a smaller, lighter, more efficient cartridge for military use. It did that well. The .308 (7.62 Nato) does everything the service round (30-06) did in military service. Pretty much the same power as issued.

I also believe the 30-06 is a vastly superior cartridge when one has need of non service round performance. .308 does not compare. In my case the .308 meets my needs in the rifles I would use it in and opens up a larger supply of surplus ammo in todays market.

The key to this argument is "compared to what". .308 = 30-06 in service trim. Trivial differences for military issue cartridges. Other than service trim we have apples to oranges.

My opinion and I'm sticking to it!
Old 07-18-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Systematic Mechanic View Post
If that's all the person wants then yeah it's a moot point.

Honestly I want to like Savage but I just don't.
Maybe they will come out with something that changes that.

Why they don't take the 11/111 Hog Hunter, add a box
to it and drop the accutrigger is irritating to me.
The way I understand it, the Hog hunter was designed that way on purpose.

Apparently folks accidently drop their mag out while hunting, and/or get the mag all tangled up in brush.........

I have never ran into this perceived issue while hunting hogs in the brush with an M14S, or M1A-A1.

You might be interested in the Mossberg MVP 762 rifle that is supposed to be released later this year.

1. Iron sights (model specific but there)) that do not "conflict" with the option of mounting optics over the receiver.

2. Medium weight 18.5in bbl. ( 1/10 inch twist I believe), and with threaded muzzle.

3. The rifle apparently can utilize M14 type magazines, and SR25 type magazines.

4. 762MM NATO chamber. ( I see this as an advantage, and especially nowadays, as more and more foreign 7.62x51mm ammunition is currently flowing into the states as demand for this caliber has increased by a substantial margin.

Here is an article about the rifle used for a successful moose hunt.
http://riflefirepower.com/2013/04/mo...hy-mvp-7-62/3/

165gr Nosler Accubond (308 Winchester) at 250 to 300 yds distance from the moose.


The below link sates that 16.25in tubes are also available.
http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=MB27738

If they can keep the costs down at something reasonable for a utility rifle, I see it doing well as a nice little hunting rig.
Hint.......... Mossberg needs to put out a left handed bolt for the MVP762MM

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Old 07-18-2013, 12:22 PM
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Wife has an Axis youth chambered in .243. It is a damn good little basic rifle. Accurate, light weight, all weather friendly and compact enough to walk through tight brush. Is it as good as my FN? Of course not but then it cost a quarter the amount.
Old 07-18-2013, 01:26 PM
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General info for everyone.

Here is a few links as to ammunition costs currently. I'll start with 308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm

The following is 7.62x51mm (M80) ammunition with reloadable boxer primed brass at 70 cents per round. Decent stuff for target practice using various field positions, and will turn a polar/ brown bear's head into a canoe if one were forced to defend themselves.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...-50rd-box.html



Factory loaded subsonic 308 ammo for those who like to use cans, but d not reload......

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...08s185-20.html


Low cost non reloadable 168gr fodder........ (56 cents per rd)
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...bled+Deep+Link


168 gr Barnes TSX....
http://www.galatiinternational.com/p...AY308N410.html

165gr Aussie game king.......
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-AOB308SGK

And I cant leave out Ole Ted's 165gr TSX load......
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...c_id=cj3946285

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Old 07-18-2013, 01:40 PM
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They are virtually identical cartridges EXCEPT for one big (to me) item. Mount a gun of your choice (say, a Savage Axis) of each caliber and cycle the bolt. Especially if you wear glasses, you will appreciate the short action round (the .308), especially in the cold with gloves on.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:44 PM
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Now for some 30-06 examples......

Korean surplus M2 ball ( possible corrosive at 59 cents per rd)
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...dir=18|830|850

180gr accubond
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...bled+Deep+Link

180gr TSX
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/69485

150gr FMJ targeted for the M1 Garand lover
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...l-metal-jacket

Some 220gr fodder.........
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...006-soft-point

Custom Nosler
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/3-0310663#

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Old 07-18-2013, 01:47 PM
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BTW, this stuff about the .308 being notably inferior to the '06 in power is a bunch of hooey. Factory loaded 180 gr ammo gives the .308 2743 ft-lbs vs. 2913 for the '06 -- a power difference of about the energy of a .22 LR. Big deal.
Old 07-18-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneeky View Post
BTW, this stuff about the .308 being notably inferior to the '06 in power is a bunch of hooey. Factory loaded 180 gr ammo gives the .308 2743 ft-lbs vs. 2913 for the '06 -- a power difference of about the energy of a .22 LR. Big deal.
While your numbers show that the 30-06 is pushing the same bullet faster, my point earlier is that North American critters of all types will not know the difference, as both of the above calibers will kill them just as dead.

This is a short vs long action dilemma for the OP, since he is looking at both and in the same rifle.

By comparing both next to each other, the difference in felt recoil can also be determined rather easily if both are equal in terms of bbl length, and bullet weight.

Either caliber is an outstanding choice IMO.

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