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Old 03-14-2011, 06:10 AM
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Cool Nuclear Power plants in the New Madrid Fault



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Here is something that is a wake up call. Scientists are highly worried about the New Madrid fault and in fact there has been the constant FEMA vans and semi's along with troops staging exercises along the New Madrid Fault in the event such an earthquake would happen. Problem, there is a lot more nuclear power plants along the New Madrid fault than what is in Japan.

Check this link out and see what you think. Makes you want to head to Alaska and build a bomb shelter there.

http://www.bsoscblog.com/forum/viewt...e6662df1#p2081

Oh, it has Europe on there as well. It wouldn't be much better for Europe if they had an Earthquake, they have a ton of Nuclear power plants.

Time to change to solar and wind power, I think we can cover half of texas with solar panels and half of Kansas with wind turbines instead of risking our butts over Nuclear power.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmountains View Post
risking our butts over Nuclear power.
Risk is part of life, manage it with the best information available.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:22 AM
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And it turns out that the concept of nuclear power is more than half a century obsolete. Practical geothermal, solar (not just panels) or hydrogen weren't available options in the 1940's. They are now.

There's no reason at all to build nuclear plants anywhere near the Pacific rim, on their side or on ours. There's a virtually unlimited source of heat just a couple miles straight down. Some engineering challenges, but very little risk at all.

But I would say there's a risk with nuclear far worse than earthquakes and other natural disasters. Namely, political and economic disaster. Our government can't seem to run anything properly. Everything descends into inefficient cronyism, corruption, mismanagement, failure and bailout. It's astounding that they haven't let the reactors go into the sort of disrepair that they let banking regulations, the economy, endless wars, the New Orleans sea barriers, the highway 35 bridge here in Minnesota, etc. descend into. It comes down not just to a naive trust in technology, that most people eventually learn to approach with caution as they get older. But it comes down to a matter of human/administrative trust, and I'd say that they're not up to task to babysit, let alone manage nuclear policy, store waste, etc.

They're little more than a rubber-stamp over the largely-foreign nuke companies that have multi-billion dollar projects they want to sell. They're not interested in alternative or more modern sources because they can't make as much money on them. No billion-dollar solar farms, no massive government subsidies or insurance scams. Nuclear is the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae of energy.

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Risk is part of life, manage it with the best information available.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:28 AM
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Im ok with Minnesota, wisconsin new york state california building new Nuclear Plants. I may even hold a sign to get my picture taken for fox news to make a point.
Just dont build any more in my neighborhood. Mostly Westerly winds make reactors in Texas and Mexico bad for me.
Old 03-14-2011, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by aramchek View Post
And it turns out that the concept of nuclear power is more than half a century obsolete. Practical geothermal, solar (not just panels) or hydrogen weren't available options in the 1940's. They are now.

There's no reason at all to build nuclear plants anywhere near the Pacific rim, on their side or on ours. There's a virtually unlimited source of heat just a couple miles straight down. Some engineering challenges, but very little risk at all.
I guess I am thoroughly confused by your comments, perhaps I missed something..............

As far as I am aware, there is no practical (currently available) alternative, at least when speaking of amount of power generated. Solar is woefully weak in power generation, where and how do we get the hydrogen? from a solar furnace? Geothermal 2 miles down? I think untested, unproven, unable to meet the power generated from a nuclear facility.

Perhaps I am unaware of new technologies, but I think nothing "other than fossil fuel" can touch the energy output,(from sheer Energy Density), of Japan's Nuclear facilities.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramchek View Post
And it turns out that the concept of nuclear power is more than half a century obsolete. Practical geothermal, solar (not just panels) or hydrogen weren't available options in the 1940's. They are now.

There's no reason at all to build nuclear plants anywhere near the Pacific rim, on their side or on ours. There's a virtually unlimited source of heat just a couple miles straight down. Some engineering challenges, but very little risk at all.

But I would say there's a risk with nuclear far worse than earthquakes and other natural disasters. Namely, political and economic disaster. Our government can't seem to run anything properly. Everything descends into inefficient cronyism, corruption, mismanagement, failure and bailout. It's astounding that they haven't let the reactors go into the sort of disrepair that they let banking regulations, the economy, endless wars, the New Orleans sea barriers, the highway 35 bridge here in Minnesota, etc. descend into. It comes down not just to a naive trust in technology, that most people eventually learn to approach with caution as they get older. But it comes down to a matter of human/administrative trust, and I'd say that they're not up to task to babysit, let alone manage nuclear policy, store waste, etc.

They're little more than a rubber-stamp over the largely-foreign nuke companies that have multi-billion dollar projects they want to sell. They're not interested in alternative or more modern sources because they can't make as much money on them. No billion-dollar solar farms, no massive government subsidies or insurance scams.
I have to agree with you on this one. Hook these new plants up to the frozen methane bubbles found in the gulf of mexico.
Old 03-14-2011, 07:32 AM
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Theres 4 power plants??
Old 03-14-2011, 07:45 AM
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What I find more interesting from those maps is that it seems the exact area of predicted damage has no reactors...

...on purpose?
Old 03-14-2011, 07:57 AM
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Theres 4 power plants??
Only one at callaway. About 50 miles out of St. Louis.
Old 03-14-2011, 08:00 AM
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Of all the nuke plants the one at San Onofre, CA is the one I'd be watching. It's fairly close to two fault lines. That one always bothered me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ono...rating_Station
http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-...ofre-magnitude
http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-...ant-san-onofre
Old 03-14-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot View Post
I guess I am thoroughly confused by your comments, perhaps I missed something..............

As far as I am aware, there is no practical (currently available) alternative, at least when speaking of amount of power generated. Solar is woefully weak in power generation, where and how do we get the hydrogen? from a solar furnace? Geothermal 2 miles down? I think untested, unproven, unable to meet the power generated from a nuclear facility.

Perhaps I am unaware of new technologies, but I think nothing "other than fossil fuel" can touch the energy output,(from sheer Energy Density), of Japan's Nuclear facilities.
Geothermal power plants work quite well. The US Navy has one about 20 miles north of my place that produces around 300 MW.

The existing geothermal plants are located on natural sources of steam. Typically hydrothermal vents with ground water used as the primary working fluid.

What remains would be to install heat exchangers underground and circulate DI water as a working fluid.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:11 AM
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Geothermal power plants work quite well. The US Navy has one about 20 miles north of my place that produces around 300 MW.

The existing geothermal plants are located on natural sources of steam. Typically hydrothermal vents with ground water used as the primary working fluid.

What remains would be to install heat exchangers underground and circulate DI water as a working fluid.
I dont disagree with the plants working well, I think it is highly "location dependant", you cant just put them anywhere and expect high output.

I believe Iceland uses them extensively to convert bauxite to aluminum, this relatively "free energy" makes it worth the cost to ship bauxite long distances for the conversion.
Old 03-14-2011, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Grevlin View Post
What I find more interesting from those maps is that it seems the exact area of predicted damage has no reactors...

...on purpose?

The map also lists plenty of decomissioned, and decomissioning, reactors: different animals entirely from operating fission reactors.
Old 03-14-2011, 10:40 AM
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Clean coal fired plants! But coal is another victim of politicians and politics. And, the oil industry.
Old 03-14-2011, 01:45 PM
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Northern Illinois is included in the potential earthquake damage area ...... in fact Chicago has predicted something like 50% building damage & collapse with something like a 4.0 earthquake ......

Three nuc plants in the area plus a rod disposal facility ......
Old 03-14-2011, 05:02 PM
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Northern Illinois is included in the potential earthquake damage area ...... in fact Chicago has predicted something like 50% building damage & collapse with something like a 4.0 earthquake ......

Three nuc plants in the area plus a rod disposal facility ......

Hi there - I'm in the west burbs. Do you know where these plants are located?

I've only seen one.
Old 03-14-2011, 05:10 PM
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I like how people claim geothermal as "virtually unlimited"... They probably thought the same thing 100 years ago about oil and coal.

What happens when geothermal energy "runs out"? Oh yeah, no more molten core, weak or non-existant magnetic fields, and then the big reactor in the sky fries us... It's not science fiction, it's what happened to Mars - it's smaller size resulted in it's core cooling down and the solar wind blasted it's atmosphere and liquid oceans into space.

Not that I think it will be that extreme, but just saying, people and governments have a very "here and now" mentallity with any venture and considering the worst case scenario with geothermal (like everyone anti-nuke does with nuclear power) it's not a place we really want to go.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmountains View Post
Here is something that is a wake up call. Scientists are highly worried about the New Madrid fault and in fact there has been the constant FEMA vans and semi's along with troops staging exercises along the New Madrid Fault in the event such an earthquake would happen. Problem, there is a lot more nuclear power plants along the New Madrid fault than what is in Japan.

Check this link out and see what you think. Makes you want to head to Alaska and build a bomb shelter there.

http://www.bsoscblog.com/forum/viewt...e6662df1#p2081

Oh, it has Europe on there as well. It wouldn't be much better for Europe if they had an Earthquake, they have a ton of Nuclear power plants.

Time to change to solar and wind power, I think we can cover half of texas with solar panels and half of Kansas with wind turbines instead of risking our butts over Nuclear power.
Are you actually comparing the seismic risk of the new Madrid area with a Pacific subduction zone? Are you nuts?

You live in Washington state for gods sake, you should freaking know better. The Pacific rim of fire has accounted for all of the mag +9.0 mega quakes in the last 60 years. The area of the US at risk of the next mag 9 quake is your own back yard. The Cascadia fault lying 60 miles off shore Vancouver island.

Why don't you look at the Hanford site and the Columbia river site. Wasn't that last one they called woops???
Old 03-14-2011, 10:26 PM
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According the California public records, all but two Nuclear power plants in California have been shut down and the majority of them have been dismantled and have had their fuel rods removed from the sites.

San Onofre & Diablo Canyon are the only two remaining sources of Nuclear power in the state of California.. I didn't check how many of those are inactive in other states. Be interested to see how current data in the OPs link was.


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Clean coal fired plants! But coal is another victim of politicians and politics. And, the oil industry.
From what i understand clean coal means they burn coal, capture the gas and pipe it into cavities in the ground. From what ive read about it, the only plant that actually is set up to do it is in Florida and they don't do it because Florida wont allow it.

In addition this poses a threat in an earthquake situation too. If the cavity/containment is breached, large concentrations of Co2 can escape and suffocate people, wildlife etc.

That was the last i heard of clean burning coal. But as is coal in general is something like 54-55% US power. I was kinda surprised at that..
Old 03-14-2011, 10:33 PM
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From what i understand clean coal means they burn coal, capture the gas and pipe it into cavities in the ground. From what ive read about it, the only plant that actually is set up to do it is in Florida and they don't do it because Florida wont allow it.

In addition this poses a threat in an earthquake situation too. If the cavity/containment is breached, large concentrations of Co2 can escape and suffocate people, wildlife etc.

That was the last i heard of clean burning coal. But as is coal in general is something like 54-55% US power. I was kinda surprised at that..
The only working method to clean up coal is to chemically remove the sulfur, lead, zinc, etc from the coal before burning it. You are describing carbon sequestration which is a useless solution to a non existant problem.
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