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Old 03-11-2011, 06:18 PM
rhino33 rhino33 is offline
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Default Best vehicle to have around for SHTF



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i'm new here, but i've browsed through a lot of threads here and elsewhere, and there doesn't seem to be a very clear answer on the best vehicle to have in case of any SHTF event. First off, some assumptions:

1. obviously for this advice to be of any use, you (and your vehicle) would have to survive a nuclear event, or other blast that might produce an emp or other blast

2. you have all other needs taken care - decent amount of water, food, guns, and ammo but need a way to get to a far away muster point, or to stay within your community and just use the vehicle for general hauling, transport, etc.

3. 4x4 is obviously preferable, and any vehicle can be retrofitted with armor, bullet resistant glass, but can also be made to look inconspicuous.

4. obviously gas stations would be inoperable in a power outage, but if you have a hand siphon pump, you could get gas or diesel out of any tank at any gas stations, or out of abandoned vehicles, etc.


with those assumptions, what vehicle type is best to have (year, type, why)? it seems diesel engines are preferred, and one could hot wire a glowplug in a newer version if needed, though older is better. for gas vehicles, you'd need a vehicle with a carb and point style ignition.

let's assume you have an older diesel truck - 1985 or earlier. what would you have to replace (if anything) to get it to run after an emp?
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:55 PM
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For all-around ready-for-anything preparedness?

I'd go with an old army 2.5 ton truck.
-EMP proof (or as close as you're going to get on a working vehicle)
-very durable
-multi-fuel engines available that will run on a wide variety of fuels -- several of which could be made from scratch, with enough effort.
-6x6, with great off-road capability
-Lots of carrying capacity (could easily take the weight of up-armoring, if you had a mind to)
-Replacement parts are not impossible to find, especially if military bases are abandoned
-PTO powered winches available
-Locking differentials available (much better off-road performance)
-Cheap for what you get (great bang for the buck)
-Designed to be simple and easy to drive (for its size)
Preferably, one that came factory with winch, 'super single' tires, multi-fuel engine, and locking diffs, to save money on upgrades.
To that already nice package, I would add a huge fuel tank in the bed (500 to 1000 gallons), and a fuel pump for scavenging fuel from various sources. Then, upgrade to power steering. Would probably also add a small cargo crane in the back for loading and unloading. Possibly also a good-sized potable water tank. Oh, and a nice, well-stocked tool box. Would probably add a few extra lights as well, and a good 120v power inverter. I'd also investigate the possibility of adding the capability to run on gaseous fuels, like propane and methane.
Downsides:
-conspicuous
-fuel guzzler in a BIG way
-could be too large/heavy for some tasks or terrain

All considered though, it's my choice for best all-around SHTF vehicle.
(With the army 5-ton coming in close second, because 5-tons have power steering. The 5-ton model, though, doubles down on all of the 2.5-ton's disadvantages.)
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino33 View Post
i'm new here, but i've browsed through a lot of threads here and elsewhere, and there doesn't seem to be a very clear answer on the best vehicle to have in case of any SHTF event. First off, some assumptions:

1. obviously for this advice to be of any use, you (and your vehicle) would have to survive a nuclear event, or other blast that might produce an emp or other blast

2. you have all other needs taken care - decent amount of water, food, guns, and ammo but need a way to get to a far away muster point, or to stay within your community and just use the vehicle for general hauling, transport, etc.

3. 4x4 is obviously preferable, and any vehicle can be retrofitted with armor, bullet resistant glass, but can also be made to look inconspicuous.

4. obviously gas stations would be inoperable in a power outage, but if you have a hand siphon pump, you could get gas or diesel out of any tank at any gas stations, or out of abandoned vehicles, etc.


with those assumptions, what vehicle type is best to have (year, type, why)? it seems diesel engines are preferred, and one could hot wire a glowplug in a newer version if needed, though older is better. for gas vehicles, you'd need a vehicle with a carb and point style ignition.

let's assume you have an older diesel truck - 1985 or earlier. what would you have to replace (if anything) to get it to run after an emp?
GROAN!!!!! not again.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:02 PM
rhino33 rhino33 is offline
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Default RE: Best vehicle to have around for SHTF

thanks ocalhoun, that doues sound like a decent option. what about standard vehicles (jeeps, internationals, etc) that would be around to steal parts from if needed or just cheap to buy or get parts for now?
Old 03-11-2011, 07:12 PM
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ok Axels Of Evil, how bout you do me a solid, save me some time, and make a suggestion instead of go through the same steps to just complain? i've gone through a lot of threads here, and it seems no one really has a good understanding of what to look put for in this regard...
Old 03-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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a brand new, diesel, 1 ton, 4x4, 4 door, lifted ,54" tires, 30,000lb winch, custom made bumpers, air lockers, up armored, auxillary fuel tanked, spare parts equipped, emp hardened, camo painted, truck. should run you maybe $125k or so.
Old 03-11-2011, 08:57 PM
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Up to '93 Ford diesel, GM up to '93 w/ standard trans unless converted to DB2, Dodge up to '97.5 with standard trans...

Any of the above will run on just about anything from Diesel to waste oil.....
Old 03-11-2011, 09:34 PM
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The feds keep EMPing me!!.. Emptying My Pockets!!!

FWIW, Really though.. a diesel, one thats easier to work on and that best fits your needs without going overboard
Old 03-11-2011, 09:50 PM
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A 5 ton isn't a good option, it gets 5 mph (my m35a2 gets 8-10)...also if you put a 500 or 1000 gallon tank on the back of an m35 you won't have much room for anything else!

Yes, a 5 ton has power steering, but it doesn't have an air engaged front axle, it is sprag engaged which isn't as good. The 800 series 5-tons don't have much advantage over a deuce except heavier carrying capacity.

The best off the shelf vehicle for under $5,000 is a m35a2...other wise you are custom building a truck (done by someone else, Trixie is right $125,000 isn't out of the question) yourself (w/o armor) could be done for under $30,000 easy.

Straight frame rails from something like a Kodiak, regular crew cab with a pickup bed, 37" tires, winch, 6bt cummins and a 6 speed tranny or an allison 1000...that would be amazing!
Old 03-11-2011, 09:56 PM
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I prefer a nice pair of horses. They can fuel themselves in the wild, can handle most difficult terrains, and can serve as an emergency food source in a pinch. I'm not big on any BOV that requires fossil fuels. Keep it simple.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:50 PM
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Why '85 or older? There are diesels newer than that which are EMP resistant. My '97 Dodge Cummins 4x4 truck doesn't have any computers that the engine depends on.

If the truck has a solenoid controlling the fuel shut off, then you could probably replace that with a push/pull cable. A manual switch for glow plugs or manifold heater. Just make it a momentary switch to you have to hold it in the on position - that way you can't leave it on by mistake. Although my truck has a grid heater in the manifold (no glow plugs for the Cummins), it is not mandatory for starting, it is just easier to do it that way.

Most modern alternators have solid state voltage regulators and rectifiers, so you probably want at least replacements for those, maybe a whole alternator.
Old 03-11-2011, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragogt View Post
Up to '93 Ford diesel, GM up to '93 w/ standard trans unless converted to DB2, Dodge up to '97.5 with standard trans...

Any of the above will run on just about anything from Diesel to waste oil.....
'98.5 on the Dodge - that is when they switched over to the 24 valve diesels that use electronics.
Old 03-11-2011, 10:59 PM
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Default Jeep?

I'm kind of supprised no one mentioned an older army 4x4 jeep they were solid, durable, and carried troops and equipment through mud, blood, sand, and gunfire. I'm not sure about emp resistance but I think they might have at least had less computer reliant parts in the 70s and 80s. Plus from what i've heard they ran like champs. Horned One mentioned horses which are a great idea (they are the most emp resistent form of transportation other than your legs i can think of), but they can only go so far before wearing out, they aren't as fast as most actual vehicles, you can't find replacement parts for your horse, and lets face it they can't carry as much.
Old 03-12-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
'98.5 on the Dodge - that is when they switched over to the 24 valve diesels that use electronics.
Thats right..
Old 03-12-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SocialistSoldier View Post
I'm kind of supprised no one mentioned an older army 4x4 jeep they were solid, durable, and carried troops and equipment through mud, blood, sand, and gunfire. I'm not sure about emp resistance but I think they might have at least had less computer reliant parts in the 70s and 80s. Plus from what i've heard they ran like champs. Horned One mentioned horses which are a great idea (they are the most emp resistent form of transportation other than your legs i can think of), but they can only go so far before wearing out, they aren't as fast as most actual vehicles, you can't find replacement parts for your horse, and lets face it they can't carry as much.
whats in fashion right now in the survivalist community is the big diesel BOV, huge, impracticle and the fantasy that you can run it on any fuel.

realistic, small rigs like samurai's and jeeps just arent cool enough to make the cut........for now, as any trend goes i'd expect to see tiny, fuel efficient rigs come into style again anytime now.
Old 03-12-2011, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixie View Post
whats in fashion right now in the survivalist community is the big diesel BOV, huge, impracticle and the fantasy that you can run it on any fuel.

realistic, small rigs like samurai's and jeeps just arent cool enough to make the cut........for now, as any trend goes i'd expect to see tiny, fuel efficient rigs come into style again anytime now.
Both have advantages and disadvantages; which one is best depends on the terrain and what you plan to use it for.
Old 03-12-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixie View Post
whats in fashion right now in the survivalist community is the big diesel BOV, huge, impracticle and the fantasy that you can run it on any fuel.

realistic, small rigs like samurai's and jeeps just arent cool enough to make the cut........for now, as any trend goes i'd expect to see tiny, fuel efficient rigs come into style again anytime now.
Any of the ones I posted Will run on any fuel...

And how is a Jeep or a Sammi gonna haul you + 2-3 others along with your BoB and any supply you might need???
Old 03-12-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixie View Post
whats in fashion right now in the survivalist community is the big diesel BOV, huge, impracticle and the fantasy that you can run it on any fuel.

realistic, small rigs like samurai's and jeeps just arent cool enough to make the cut........for now, as any trend goes i'd expect to see tiny, fuel efficient rigs come into style again anytime now.
That's because your small, realistic rigs (including my own wrangler) don't actually do much work. They only carry a two people, plus a tiny load. If that's all you are carrying, why f'ing bother?

My one ton carries enough fuel for 900 miles and I've towed 20,000 lbs of load on a gooseneck trailer.

So perhaps your small rigs are out of fashion for a reason. There is no substitute for the range and cargo capacity of a big pickup.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:32 PM
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A horse... free fuel everywhere.
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Old 03-12-2011, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino33 View Post
i'm new here, but i've browsed through a lot of threads here and elsewhere, and there doesn't seem to be a very clear answer on the best vehicle to have in case of any SHTF event. First off, some assumptions:

1. obviously for this advice to be of any use, you (and your vehicle) would have to survive a nuclear event, or other blast that might produce an emp or other blast

2. you have all other needs taken care - decent amount of water, food, guns, and ammo but need a way to get to a far away muster point, or to stay within your community and just use the vehicle for general hauling, transport, etc.

3. 4x4 is obviously preferable, and any vehicle can be retrofitted with armor, bullet resistant glass, but can also be made to look inconspicuous.

4. obviously gas stations would be inoperable in a power outage, but if you have a hand siphon pump, you could get gas or diesel out of any tank at any gas stations, or out of abandoned vehicles, etc.


with those assumptions, what vehicle type is best to have (year, type, why)? it seems diesel engines are preferred, and one could hot wire a glowplug in a newer version if needed, though older is better. for gas vehicles, you'd need a vehicle with a carb and point style ignition.

let's assume you have an older diesel truck - 1985 or earlier. what would you have to replace (if anything) to get it to run after an emp?
Welcome to the boards.

The common thread here on EMP is that it may or may not debilitate a vehicle.. because there doesn't appear to be a definitive answer... it really depends on what one believes to be probable.

Those who think "worst case" tend to go for older diesel vehicles with minimal electronics.. if any at all. Some choose to not sacrifice modern tech and its benefits and prefer newer vehicles.

IMHO, I'd think it prudent to error on the conservative side when thinking of a BOV for a number of reasons, some not related to EMP at all...
  1. Ease of Repair - Can it be repaired in the field?
  2. Parts availability - If parts are expensive and hard to find pre-SHTF, imaging post. Minimizing the need for electronics parts would be optimal as would pre-purchasing 2nd sets and carrying them in the vehicle.
  3. Tools - Standard or Metric.. or both? Any specialized tools needed? Not talking about a full service garage... but if you need to bug.. you need to take tools with you to repair the truck if needed....
  4. Knowledge - probably the MOST important factor... and one that should definitely factor into the equation when deciding "newer or older"
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