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Old 02-04-2011, 06:33 PM
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Default ar15 vs. m1 carbine



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what would you rather have and what do you think is a better rifle? I really like both and they both handle really well.

which has the more powerful round?
Old 02-04-2011, 08:07 PM
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The AR-15 is the modern version of the M1 Carbine.

Do you like driving a 69 Camaro, or a 2011 Corvette. Both are fun to drive, both accomplish the same basic goal.

Some folks like to knock .223, however, both the US and NATO have found it to be acceptable for over 40 years.

.223 is cheaper than the m-1 carbine. There is a ton better selection of .223 ammo than M1 carbine.

Also, it's morally tough to mess with the classic gun. A nice 60 year old classic. You even feel bad taking out in bad weather. Just like driving the 69 camaro in the snow.

The M1 Carbine fit the perfect role. Providing a light, handy, and easy to shoot firearm to people who's main objectives were not fighting. Support troops like engineers, maintenance folks, logisitics, and for troops in combat that mainly focused around using other machines like tank groups and so on.

I think the AR is another good one too. However, there is one thing I find unaccpetable. The newer M4 is too loud for my liking. After a couple of shots, it's load and annoying even with ear protection on. I work in the field where loud equipment is always running. I usually pick the quietest rifles I can get. Which is slower rounds with longer barrels. 30-30, SKS, and 22lr bolt action rifles. I even developed a very quiet subsonic load for my 357 and 45 long colt lever guns. A heavier than normal bullet with fast power pushed to about 1000 fps. Good enough for casual shooting and close range pest control, like coyotes.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:47 PM
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The .30 Carbine is proven in WW2, Korea, Vietnam & many other skirmishes, and is still used by many other military agencies and armies. From the sweltering asian jungles to frozen Alaskan tundras it has proven itself worthy.

The military .30 Carbine cartridge doesn't quite equal the 5.56/.223 in terminal ballistics when full-metal jacket bullets are used because the 110gr FMJ bullet at roughly 1900-2000 FPS creates a straight through-and-through wound. The 2900-3200 FPS velocity that the 5.56 55-62gr bullet achieves results in bullet yaw and typically fragmentation:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pagea18.htm
http://www.frfrogspad.com/terminal2.htm

When softpoint ammo is used, it levels the playing field. .30 Carbine SP ammo is deadly effective on two as well as four-legged critters. The .223/5.56 is flatter shooting with a wider array of bullet selections and cheap milsurp ammo, with the ability to shoot tracers or 77gr SMK open-tip ammo, softpoint, "specialty" ammo, and cheap Russian ammo like Wolf and Brown Bear.

You can get Corbon DPX ammo for both▬i'd like to see a side by side comparison in various different obstacles

Is one any better than the other? To quote Patrick Swayze, 'opinions vary'


@ sailinghudson25 - the reason your AR is so loud is because of the flash suppressor. Take it off, and the noise will all be directed forward
Old 02-04-2011, 08:52 PM
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I like and own both. My M1 carbine is a Plainfield however and not a GI rifle. The Plainfields were commercial rifles built with GI spec parts. Mine is 100% reliable. Ammo...not a problem since I load my own using 110 grain Remington JSP slugs.

I like the M4 version of the AR and own one that I built...heavier than thr M1 carbine though. I load ammo for this one also...bullet weights vary.

Out of the two I have to admit the M1 carbine is my favorite.
Old 02-04-2011, 10:08 PM
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I have both firearms. My go to primary is the AR with the M1 as secondary or loan to another to help protect the place. My AR is more accurate than the M1 and I handload for both. I think I trust the AR more as well. Just my thoughts since I own and shoot both.
Old 02-04-2011, 10:22 PM
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I own 2 m1's i got them for the boys when they were young ,light and easy for them to handle also for the wife i like them but my go to weapon is a piston driven daewoo 5.56 works great very accurate and will reach out farther. JT
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:19 AM
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The carbine is fun but when it comes down to crunch time I will use an AR.
Old 02-05-2011, 08:11 AM
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I have owned both and used both.
I like the 15/16 much better than the carbine.
The carbine was my daddys gun, the 16 was my gun.

Dont get me wrong, in a crucnch they BOTH will pull the freight

Besides, 223 is much easier to find than carbine
Old 02-05-2011, 08:42 AM
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what do you think would be better to shoot a deer with?
Old 02-05-2011, 08:48 AM
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We still had carbines (and all the other WWII small arms) when I was in the service in 1968. The carbine is a handy, prtable and reliable weapon and effective within the capability of the cartridge. I'd own one now if they weren't so expensive and ammo so scarce.

If you want something because it's likeable, a carbine is nice. Availability and price of ammo, good magazines and parts would push me to the AR if you want something you'll keep running. Personally, I've chosen Kommie rifles and ammo for those reasons.
Old 02-05-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
what do you think would be better to shoot a deer with?
Flip a coin.
The .223 using 62gr Federal Fusion or Winchester 64gr Powerpoint softpoint, and the .30 Carbine loaded with 110gr softpoint are equally matched. The .223 shoots slightly flatter.

Which one is better?
It depends on what trips yer trigger. One is no better than the other for their intended purpose. To say one is any 'better' than the other is basing that on personal opinion.
Old 02-05-2011, 10:34 AM
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Ammo is only scarce if you are trying to buy it in stores. Online ammo purchases can be done in bulk and from 100's of sites.

Cost wise, for plinker ammo, you are looking at 2x the costs roughly for .30 Carbine.

The Corbon ammo is comically expensive. Box of (20) = $42.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=553131

The biggest difference between the modern mindset in .223 and .30 Carbine is that you have to be a reloader to really want to go the .30 carbine route. The brass lasts literally forever if you get good stuff, the powder loads are like pistols (9-14 grains) and the bullets are .30 cal so not really that expensive and easily found in bulk.

30+ years ago, the M1 Carbine and its ammo was the Mosin Nagant of its time when it came to costs and saturation into the market. My Pop tells me stories about seeing barrels fulls of the rifles in the local hardware stores and cans of ammo everywhere.

At less than 50 yards, typical engagement ranges in urban areas, both are good solutions and will serve you well. I decided that the M1 Carbine was going to be my main solution so I put in an order for 2 Fultons. Picking them up next week.

Won't be my only guns however they will be the ones that I will want to have with me.
Old 02-05-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
The AR-15 is the modern version of the M1 Carbine.

Do you like driving a 69 Camaro, or a 2011 Corvette. Both are fun to drive, both accomplish the same basic goal.

What a beautiful analogy. Because there is another similarity here. The driver of the 69 camaro who has taken the time to learns the ins and outs of his car, and can "hit" the apexes just right every time will run circles around most new vette drivers . (although not in a drag race...because thats like arguing terminal ballistics and we obviously know which one looks best on paper)

Sorry for my seemingly unrelated post.
Old 02-05-2011, 11:22 AM
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No it made sense.

If you are walking right into the firearm world you should probably stick with the AR line of rifles (when only looking at these 2).

If you are willing to get a little more invested and learn what the gun you can do with the system then the M1 Carbine is a fine choice.

If you want to the best middle ground between both then look at the mini line.
Old 02-05-2011, 11:28 AM
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I'd go with the AR just because the ammo is more readily available and more variations.
Old 02-05-2011, 11:52 AM
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AR-15 wins hands down. Not only does it kill better but it also shoots flatter and is more accurate.

The carbine is a handly little weapon but it is not a very good SHTF choice. I would rather take a Mini-14 than the M1 Carbine.
Old 02-05-2011, 11:58 AM
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There is no question about the USGI M1 carbine's reliability. Heat, cold, mud, rain, and serious abuse, it always works. Nobody would dispute this proven fact.

There is something comforting about that. That's why I always have one ready to go.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
In my opinion, AR-15 wins hands down. Not only does it kill better but it also shoots flatter and is more accurate.

The carbine is a handly little weapon but it is not a very good SHTF choice. I would rather take a Mini-14 than the M1 Carbine.
Fixed it for you. Please elaborate how the .223 "kills better" than the .30 Carbine

A Mini-14 over M1 Carbine?? Mmkay..
Old 02-05-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jida View Post
Ammo is only scarce if you are trying to buy it in stores. Online ammo purchases can be done in bulk and from 100's of sites.

Cost wise, for plinker ammo, you are looking at 2x the costs roughly for .30 Carbine.

The Corbon ammo is comically expensive. Box of (20) = $42.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=553131

The biggest difference between the modern mindset in .223 and .30 Carbine is that you have to be a reloader to really want to go the .30 carbine route. The brass lasts literally forever if you get good stuff, the powder loads are like pistols (9-14 grains) and the bullets are .30 cal so not really that expensive and easily found in bulk.

30+ years ago, the M1 Carbine and its ammo was the Mosin Nagant of its time when it came to costs and saturation into the market. My Pop tells me stories about seeing barrels fulls of the rifles in the local hardware stores and cans of ammo everywhere.

At less than 50 yards, typical engagement ranges in urban areas, both are good solutions and will serve you well. I decided that the M1 Carbine was going to be my main solution so I put in an order for 2 Fultons. Picking them up next week.

Won't be my only guns however they will be the ones that I will want to have with me.
a lot of people don't make ammo for it... well not as much as 5.56...

.30 carbine usually comes in boxes of 50 instead of 20 like most rifle ammo boxes.

tula ammo (for .30 carbine) is $12 for a box of 50 so shooting that would be about the same price as shooting 7.62x39
Old 02-05-2011, 02:32 PM
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I have both, and as much as I dislike the AR (I have 4. I'm allowed to hate them), it's a better choice for most situations than my beloved M1 Carbine. The recoil is similar, and the 5.56 cartridge is just more effective, especially at longer distances.

At close range, they're probably similar enough that one wouldn't have a large advantage over the other. But when you start stretching those distances out, the AR starts to become the clear winner.

As for which gun I actually prefer. I love the M1 Carbine. The more traditional ergonomics, the easy going natural pointing nature of the gun, etc. It's just a very sweet shooting gun. But I doubt I'd reach for it in a crisis. Though in all fairness, I probably wouldn't reach for my ARs either.
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