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Old 01-16-2011, 04:58 PM
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Default .22 Short Ammunition



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I have an old single shot Winchester Model 62. It is very accurate for being an extremely old weapon. (Thanks Dad for keeping it clean.) This isn't the only the .22 I own but it is by far much more accurate than my newer Ruger 10/22. It also is capable of firing a myriad of different types of .22. (.22 Short, .22, and .22 Long)

I was out at the local gun shop today and noticed some CCI .22 Short's sitting on the shelf that said specifically "Low Noise", and this got the wheels in my head turning.

So, being that opsec is so important, and wanting to not alert all of my neighbors of any potential food source that I may have found by firing off a normal .22 Long, I have a couple of questions.

How loud (comparatively) are these rounds really? Is it more like an air rifle when they go off?

Would this be an effective round (around 760 FPS if I remember correctly) for smaller game when trying to maintain opsec? (Squirrels, ground hogs, etc.)

Knowing that there are many types of air rifles that would produce many more FPS than this, should I perhaps just invest in one of these instead?

I just wanted to get some opinions before I decided that I should probably stock up on other types of .22 ammo.

Sorry for being long winded.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:12 PM
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I have a Remington 514 single shot bolt rifle that performs quite well with CB shorts and any other .22 short.
Plus, they are considerably less noisy than .22LR. I was at the range finding out that most any .22 short works well with my rifle and several other people there asked me about what was I shooting. They could see where the bullet kicked up dirt on the berm but they could not hear the report from firing. Of course we were all wearing ears so that cut some of the sound right off. Still, unless your neighbors are right next door as opposed to shouting distance away they probably won't connect the shot noise to you for awhile, they really are quiet.
A box of 50 or 100 won't break the bank so try some out and see if they're what you want.
I put several hundred in my stores to use for hunting without alerting the food right away.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:22 PM
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Yes, try a box of each variety. They may also be listed as CB's, or Low Noise. Don't let the FPS deceive you, while the bullet is going airgun speeds, it's also 30-40 grains versus 15? for a pellet. Depending on barrel length, you may even wish to try a box of subsonics too.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:33 PM
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The drawback with any .22 ammo other than the Long-Rifle stuff you buy in bricks of loose rounds (Federal and Remington mostly) is the cost. Everything I've seen is considerably more money than regular old .22LR's.

CB's., BB's and shorts are very good for quiet shooting where high velocity and power is not needed. Some of those CB's are much more powerful than some think. Don't let the little bark lull you into thinking they aren't! I don't know about the laws where you all live, but they'll nail you hog-tied to the wall here for using even an air rifle or slingshot in city limits (the blessings of living around weak-livered liberals).

We have a small supply of non-LR .22's on hand for specific needs, but for everyday plinking and more serious use we piled-on the cheaper bulk packaged ammo.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:41 PM
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A couple of years ago I bought a .22 that would fire all those rounds and I spent months buying all kinds of exotic .22 shorts to see which is the quietest.

What I eventually figured out is it's mostly a function of barrel length as to how quiet a gun is coupled with subsonic ammunition.

The best combination I found, and it really is quiet, is a CZ452 Ultra Lux (28" barrel) and PMC Moderator LR ammunition. Doesn't even sound like a gun going off, more like a car door slamming. Also, very accurate.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:51 PM
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The CB shorts are almost as quiet as a Daisy 880 .177 cal pump pellet rifle. That's from personal experience with both. The CB shorts hit a lot harder than the .177 does, too. Better use head shots on small game, though. The CB shorts do a number on pidgeons, but they drop quicker than a squirrel when hit thru the chest.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:22 PM
trixie trixie is offline
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the quietest .22 ammo is the AGUILA "super colibri" 500 fps, fires from the primer only. they are very accurate for me, and supremely quiet. they make airguns a moot point.

Old 01-16-2011, 10:12 PM
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I was going to start another thread, but this is as good as any.

Today at the gun show I picked up some Aguila 'Super Colibri' .22 LR ammo

This ammo has no gun powder, it only uses the primer to propel the 20 grain conical projectile at 400 to 500 fps (they advertise 500 fps, but I have seen tests where they say it is closer to 400 fps). They also sell the 'Colibri' with the same projectile but less power and a claimed 375 fps.

When I got home I shot a text book with an M6 Scout with a 16" barrel inside a small room. It penetrated about 90 fairly thick pages (phone books have much lighter/thinner paper than most books). The noise was about the same as a moderate hand clap. The bullet deformed quite a bit.

Then I shot a book with the same ammo from a semi-auto pistol (these will not cycle any semi-auto) with a 5" barrel. The sound, inside the room, was enough to set my ears ringing and it was about like a small firecracker, maybe less.

I have read up on this particular ammo, and as the seller warned me today, they are good out to maybe 50 to 60 feet (not yards, feet) and then they drop significantly.

Like most .22 rimfire ammo, the accuracy will vary with the firearm and I haven't had the opportunity to try them out that way. I just wanted the quietest .22 LR I could get.

I had been thinking of getting a pellet gun, but I think with the various quiet ammo available out there I need not bother. Ranging from these primer only loads up to subsonic 40 grain loads (Aguila makes a subsonic that shoots a 60 grain bullet), I am covered. I have read that many pellet guns are loud in their own right - after all, most do expel gas or air, and some shoot supersonic projectiles. There are some people with pellet guns who report the Aguila ammo as quieter than a pellet gun.

I found this interesting:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/specialty22.htm
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterPX View Post
Yes, try a box of each variety. They may also be listed as CB's, or Low Noise. Don't let the FPS deceive you, while the bullet is going airgun speeds, it's also 30-40 grains versus 15? for a pellet. Depending on barrel length, you may even wish to try a box of subsonics too.
Pellets seem to range from about 7 to 15 grains in weight.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:59 AM
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Notice in the video of the Colibri the case didn't eject from the 10/22...That's because they lack the power to move the bolt...They may be good on pigeons or rats at 10 ft but they suck the big one on anything larger or farther...They were called, back in the 1890s (when they were popular) parlour rounds as people would set up pistol ranges in their front parlours using bullet traps similar to what airgun shooters use..

Speed of sound is 343 mps/1,236 kmh/768mph/1,126 fps through dry air at 20°C (68°F) anything below that will not make a downrange crack but you won't be able to muffle the ignition.

Here in Canada air guns have to be registered if they are over a certain velocity and one at 500 fps you wouldn't need to register.

I've shot pigeons in the city with .22 Shorts--subsonic by placing the bolt gun in a rest and putting a pair of pillows on either side of the action and shot...My wife was in the other room and heard nothing 20 ft away and I shot three birds that morning over about 20 minutes.

Low noise means basically less powder or a much slower burning powder which means lessened velocity and energy.

Remember that a single shot will almost never be recognized for what it is especially of such low volume...shoot four, five shots in a row and then you're just asking for a visitation by the local gendarmes.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekHer View Post
I've shot pigeons in the city with .22 Shorts--subsonic by placing the bolt gun in a rest and putting a pair of pillows on either side of the action and shot...My wife was in the other room and heard nothing 20 ft away and I shot three birds that morning over about 20 minutes.
Some ranges/people have constructed 'silencers' out of 55 gallon barrels. You can find tires that fit inside them and they act like baffles. Put the muzzle into the barrel and shoot out the other end and it cuts down on the muzzle blast for people around you, but you of course still want to wear hearing protection. This is legal (in the USA at least) because you are not attaching this 'silencer' the firearm. Of course you still have to observe laws about shooting inside a city limits etc.

If I ever get some land that allows it, I would like to dig a ditch and have an underground tunnel range.

Quote:
Remember that a single shot will almost never be recognized for what it is especially of such low volume...shoot four, five shots in a row and then you're just asking for a visitation by the local gendarmes.
Around here a single shot is sometimes recognized but unreported. We have kids throwing firecrackers much of the year, and the occasional shot from a gun too. Most of these I don't know the intention as they are far enough away for me to not worry about, but I can tell the difference between a gun shot and a firecracker. When I first moved here we had a couple of drive bys over a couple of years but not since - the police were called and responded for those.

Also, we have an outdoor police range (inside the city limits) about a mile from where I live - you can hear them practicing from time to time, including full auto fire.

My interest is not about being able to shoot inside city limits and get away with it, but rather about being able to hunt or practice shooting in a SHTF situation and have less chance of being discovered or located. Also, before SHTF, if I get a place where it is legal to shoot, basic OPSEC would indicate that it would be better to not let people know you have guns or that you shoot, so trying to be quieter on your property or at your retreat would be nice.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekHer View Post
Notice in the video of the Colibri the case didn't eject from the 10/22...That's because they lack the power to move the bolt...They may be good on pigeons or rats at 10 ft but they suck the big one on anything larger or farther...They were called, back in the 1890s (when they were popular) parlour rounds as people would set up pistol ranges in their front parlours using bullet traps similar to what airgun shooters use..

.
i love the super colibri's, I(or anyone else) can make accurate 50 yard shots all day long. they will penetrate sheet metal at that distance.

with just kentucky windage i can make 100 yard shots consistantly on a 1 foot square plate, and the ring has some authority to it when it hits.
Old 01-17-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixie View Post
i love the super colibri's, I(or anyone else) can make accurate 50 yard shots all day long. they will penetrate sheet metal at that distance.

with just kentucky windage i can make 100 yard shots consistantly on a 1 foot square plate, and the ring has some authority to it when it hits.
From Aguila:
Quote:
.22 Super Colibrí (No Gunpowder)
Bullet configuration: Solid Point
Bullet Material: Lead
Bullet Weight: 20 grains (1.296 grams)
Velocity: 500 fps (152 mps)
Energy: Conical 11 Ft-Lb

WARNING: These primer only loaded rounds must be fired only in handguns. When fired in long barrelled firearms such as rifles, bullets may remain lodged inside the longer barrel. A subsequent firing of a regular .22 rimfire cartridge may result in injury or death to the user or other.
From Cheaper then Dirt reviews:
Quote:
Perfect for pests
Reviewer: Marv
7/17/2010
Super quiet. The impact is louder than the actual firing. May not even be as loud as a typical pellet rifle. Easily goes through both sides of a real tin can at 50 feet.

Reviewer: Gene
7/11/2010
Just received a brick of these little guys. Tried them first in my Ruger MK III. Too loud for suburban shooting. Sounds like a really loud firecracker only much sharper. Way louder than my old Benjamin 310 or Benjamin HB17. Next in my Marlin 981T. Impressive!!! Barely a whisper,accurate and powerful up to around 75 feet. I put down two thieving racoons the first night at 60 feet, open sights-one shot each. In the 981T they make less noise than my slingshot.
Now what the OP was inquiring about:

From Aguila:
Quote:
22 Short 29gr Aguila High Velocity
Bullet configuration Solid Point Copper Coated Bullet
Bullet Material: Lead
Bullet Weight: 29 grains
Velocity: 1095 fps -- will make a crack sound downrange
Energy: 77 Ft-Lb

22 LR 38gr Aguila Subsonic HP
38gr Hollow Point Lead Bullet.
Velocity: 1025fps. -- silent
Energy: 88 Ft-lb
Emphasis mine.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:48 PM
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I shoot cci cb shorts in a tube fed .22 I have. They aren't powerful enough to cycle the action though. Essentially turns a semi auto into a bolt gun. I use cci cb longs in my 10/22. I have killed squirrels with both at around 20 yards. The longest shot I made with a cb long was probably 35-40 yards.

If you have a varmint problem and don't want your neighbors to know you are taking care of it, they work fine.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekHer View Post
From Aguila:


From Cheaper then Dirt reviews:


Now what the OP was inquiring about:

From Aguila:


Emphasis mine.
maybe get outside sometime, try this stuff out in the real world instead of just scanning specs and theorizing...............just an idea.
Old 01-17-2011, 06:09 PM
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One thing to be concerned with shooting shorts in rifles that can use multiple lengths of .22 cal cartridges, keep the chamber very clean.
When I use shorts in my 514, I can't chamber a .22LR until I brush out the chamber.
I keep the 514 a dedicated .22 short rifle but, I do clean the chamber regularly should I decide to use a LR cartridge.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixie View Post
maybe get outside sometime, try this stuff out in the real world instead of just scanning specs and theorizing...............just an idea.
I don't have a need now for sub sonic rounds for any conceivable situation, and especially not rimfire, so my chances of going out and shooting them is a snowball's in Hell...My chances of shooting an anaemic round like the Super Calibre--a parlour round--is even less! We shoot faster and harder hitting air pistols in the basement with out the stink of burnt primer.

We do shoot .22 short for rodent control around the grain silo and chicken coop --they come in from the fields in late fall and to eradicate pigeons from the barn not for noise reduction just that I like shooting some of my older rimfires that excepted all three or just shorts...We've even picked up some .22 long when they make a special run of them.

To keep in practice for field target we'll use our air rifles on them as well but at longer distances.
Old 01-18-2011, 01:25 AM
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I killed buckets of squirrels and birds with a pump action .177 crossman air pistol when I was a kid. Complete with shoulder stock.
They traveled at something like 650fps? or so.
At best, I could only use that gun out to probably 20-25yds due to lack of accuracy.

A .22short at 760+fps from a solid rifle, would be way more lethal, and more accurate. I'd extend that range no problem on squirrels and other vermin.

If you step up to the Hi-velocity .22shorts, like a 29gr solid, at 1000fps, you can reach surpringly far out there, without that much increase in noise from a rifle.

In the field, I can't tell much difference between the hi-velocity shorts and regular velocity cheapo .22LR's on squirrels and rabbits. (just in the sound and cost!)

I'd keep the cool old rifle, and use the money to buy ammo, not a pellet gun!
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:13 PM
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I've used CB rounds before. Clab your hands together with a decent amount of strength..about that loud. Enough power to drop small game. Neat little rounds.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:24 PM
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Here are some tests I've done with subsonic stuff. Wrote a post for another list on shooting quiet to get some meat in one's backyard.

177 pellet in RWS HV break open pellet gun penetrated 1/3 inch ply.

22 CB fired in Savage bolt action rifle penetrated 1 sheet of 3/4 inch ply clean through. Gun report sounds like a cap gun, extremely quiet - 90 decibels.

22 CB fired in a SW snub revolver. 22 CB failed to go all the way through the 3/4 inch sheet of ply and was much louder - 121 decibels

22 CB Long - exact penetration and decibels as 22 CB short.

Subsonic HP 22 LR fired in Savage bolt action rifle penetrated 2-1/4 sheets of 3/4 ply. About 129 decibels. Just starting to hurt ears with no protection.

Remington HV 22 LR round nose fired in Savage bolt action rifle penetrated 2-3./4 sheets of 3/4 ply. About 160 dedibels* Hurts ears with no protection.

All ply tests were 3/4 inch Chinese oak faced plywood and spaced 3/4 inches between sheets of ply. Guns fired at a 10 foot distance from target. Canadian or US Birch faced ply allows for less penetration by 15% or so.

A typical rifle gunshot is in the region of 140 to 170 decibels This can be lowered to around 115 db through the use of a suppressor and subsonic ammunition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunshot

* http://silencertalk.com/results.htm
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