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Old 01-12-2011, 09:37 AM
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Default Sacred Name Movement??



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Anyone know anything about this movement? Is it a cult?

according to my research:

This movement was started by Clarence Orvil Dodd from the 1930's.

He claimed that he was visited by two angels who explained that The Messiah's Name is properly Yahshua.

SNM believers also generally keep many of the Old Testament laws and ceremonies such as the Seventh-day Sabbath, Torah festivals and keeping kosher food laws.

However, because there is no formal enrollment to be a "Sacred Name group," the term is loosely defined.

Many people include groups that use variations of "Yahweh" and "Yahshua", but teach very different doctrines than the above groups, to be "in the movement".

One group which has been counted as being a part of the movement is the Ebionite Jewish Community, founded in 1995. The group's founder, Shemayah Phillips, had briefly been a member of the Assemblies of Yahweh (A spin off of the original Sacred Name Movement) in 1985, before starting his own group.

Its specific beliefs include a denial of the divinity of Christ and a rejection of Trinitarianism (The belief in the Holy Trinity, God, Son and Holy Spirit) It also sees Paul the Apostle as a false prophet.

Source:

Melton, J. Gordon (1992), Encyclopedic Handbook of Cults in America, New York: Garland Publishing,

Hughey, Sam, A History of the True Church, The Reformed Reader web site,

Melton, J. Gordon (1978), The Encyclopedia of American Religions, Wilmington, North Carolina: McGrath Publishing Company,

Walker, James K. (2007). The Concise Guide to Today's Religions and Spirituality. Harvest House Publishers.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:42 AM
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Many define a cult as any belief that is not their own. Whether or not it is a cult depends on the person's definition. Sure Miriam Webster has some words to say about what a cult is. But that doesn't force people from coming up with their own definition. I am sure you can find sources that list it as a cult, and others that don't.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
He claimed that he was visited by two angels who explained that The Messiah's Name is properly Yahshua.

SNM believers also generally keep many of the Old Testament laws and ceremonies such as the Seventh-day Sabbath, Torah festivals and keeping kosher food laws.
Why would he need angels to explain these things? All these things are easily found in Scripture!
Old 01-12-2011, 10:11 AM
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I've met some "Sacred Namers", just as I've met people who are so appalled at using His name that you would think you had uttered a curse word by saying it.

I steer clear of any one within the group. They believe the only way you get 'saved' is to use the sacred name. Nonsense.

He called me out when all I knew was "God" and "Jesus".
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by temu View Post
Why would he need angels to explain these things? All these things are easily found in Scripture!
I dont know thats the point of the thread, to find out.
Old 01-12-2011, 11:02 AM
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Saint, yes I have heard of them. I'm not sure of all what they believe or don't but I'm never comfortable with anyone declaring a special message from God especially from angels.

Whenever I hear of private interpretations I get concerned (2 Peter 1:20). Most preach that the Church has fallen away into such apostasy that God was forced to send a "special" message through Angles/Prophet etc., to straighten out the mess!
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:05 AM
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I found this:
For many sacred name people, a secondary concern is the disparagement, in varying degrees, of the name of Jesus. This disparagement extends to Chr_stians and Chr_stianity (sic) for refusing to use the Hebrew only sacred names and for being full of pagan practices.

http://www.sacrednamemovement.com

They state that the movement came out of the Word of God, Seventh Day sect.

This site here http://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/glossary also has some interesting information on the use of definitions of words and such as a way to manipulate doctrine.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:18 AM
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Sanit, yes I have heard of them. I'm not sure of all what they believe or don't but I'm never comfortable with anyone declaring a special message from God especially from angels.

Whenever I hear of private interpretations I get concerned (2 Peter 1:20). Most preach that the Church has fallen away into such apostasy that God was forced to send a "special" message through Angles/Prophet etc., to straighten out the mess!
That and only using just the OT and ignoring the NT is certain to raise some flags.

It seems that within this movement there is also an obsession with keeping the old law to the letter, festivals etc. Christ is basically ignored for His sacrifice for our salvation as well.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:34 AM
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That and only using just the OT and ignoring the NT is certain to raise some flags.

It seems that within this movement there is also an obsession with keeping the old law to the letter, festivals etc. Christ is basically ignored for His sacrifice for our salvation as well.
I wish they would spell out for us what they think Christ did or accomplished.
They seem to only mention Him in passing as He is the one who paid the tab and now they just leave the restaurant and go back home to their lives as if they had never met Him or what He did. They are really appreciative but that seems to be all that is mentioned.

Now some are making it clear that they don't even acknowledge that He ever existed or was the messiah.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Selah View Post
I wish they would spell out for us what they think Christ did or accomplished.
They seem to only mention Him in passing as He is the one who paid the tab and now they just leave the restaurant and go back home to their lives as if they had never met Him or what He did. They are really appreciative but that seems to be all that is mentioned.

Now some are making it clear that they don't even acknowledge that He ever existed or was the messiah.
You know whats interesting is that the muslims I have spoken with even they recognize Him as a prophet.

Funny world we live in.
Old 01-12-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Selah View Post
I wish they would spell out for us what they think Christ did or accomplished.
They seem to only mention Him in passing as He is the one who paid the tab and now they just leave the restaurant and go back home to their lives as if they had never met Him or what He did. They are really appreciative but that seems to be all that is mentioned.

Now some are making it clear that they don't even acknowledge that He ever existed or was the messiah.
Who are the "they" and the "some"? Perhaps if you could clarify, I would be able to tell if I or someone else was thrown under this "blanket" statement.

He is my Messiah, I uphold His commands, I celebrate His Feasts, and I hunger for His truth in every aspect of my life...am I one of "them"?
Old 01-12-2011, 11:55 AM
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Who are the "they" and the "some"? Perhaps if you could clarify, I would be able to tell if I or someone else was thrown under this "blanket" statement.

He is my Messiah, I uphold His commands, I celebrate His Feasts, and I hunger for His truth in every aspect of my life...am I one of "them"?
Those who hold to the sacred names. I thought that was clear from the thread name.

Are you one of them? I don't know, are you?

What do you think changed after God's Son suffered, died, and rose from the dead?
Old 01-12-2011, 11:57 AM
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You know whats interesting is that the muslims I have spoken with even they recognize Him as a prophet.

Funny world we live in.
Its all about agenda. They also claim that He never died on the cross or was resurrected. So they can say He existed and even give Him Kudos for wisdom but they will never admit that He died on that cross and was resurrected.
Old 01-12-2011, 12:01 PM
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Those who hold to the sacred names. I thought that was clear from the thread name.

Are you one of them? I don't know, are you?

What do you think changed after God's Son suffered, died, and rose from the dead?
"Now some are making it clear that they don't even acknowledge that He ever existed or was the messiah."

I wasn't aware that that was in the OP.

And if the OP concerned His Name, how did His Name change after His sacrifice? What was your point?
Old 01-12-2011, 12:07 PM
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"Now some are making it clear that they don't even acknowledge that He ever existed or was the messiah."

I wasn't aware that that was in the OP.

And if the OP concerned His Name, how did His Name change after His sacrifice? What was your point?
You quoted my entire post and asked your question. You are taking my statement out of context.

The OP concerns a GROUP who make the name an issue. I was speaking about that group.

You asked me if you were one of the 'they'
I can only answer that question if you answer mine:
What do you think changed after God's Son suffered, died, and rose from the dead?
Old 01-12-2011, 12:15 PM
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Well I'm not sure about "sacred names" and such......to call Jesus by His English variant is no problems in my book.......

BUT

I am pretty sure the Apostles didn't refer to Jesus as JESUS.........c'mon folks.....

Yeshua/Yahshua/etc is the English transliteration of the Hebraic/Aramaic pronunciation of "Jesus".....that's not made up cult talk.....go to Israel and ask a Hebrew-speaking Jew the name of Jesus....Yeshua......

Now the Apostles knew Greek, and I'm sure many other languages as evidenced in Acts. So they referred to Yeshua as it was in other languages.

"Jesus" (pronounced /ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsos), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yĕhōuă, Joshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēă), meaning "Yahweh delivers (or rescues)".[39][40][41] "Christ" (pronounced /ˈkraɪst/) is a title derived from the Greek Χριστός (Christs), meaning the "Anointed One", a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Messiah).[42][43]:274-275"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

"only in Hebrew does this name have any meaning. In Hebrew Yeshua means both "Salvation," and the concatenated form of Yahoshua, is "Lord who is Salvation." The name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever."

http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua..._real_name.htm

(now I just pulled this site from a quick google search, I am not espousing this site as what I believe cause I didn't read it....but this above statement is factual about the name)

Now if some group of people like to use the Hebrew "Yahshua/Yeshua/etc" how does that make them a "cult"....

The RCC uses "Jesus" and many would consider them a cult going strictly by the definition of one. So does that mean whoever uses "Jesus" is a "cult".....obviously not....

What about those early Gnostics who used "Jesus" (in Greek)? Uh-oh. WE'RE ALL CULTISTS!!!!.........


People who call Him "Yeshua" may or may not be Scripturally grounded. People who call Him "Jesus" doesn't mean they are not cultists either.....

Benny Hinn uses "Jesus" so all you believers out there that use "Jesus" are actually cultists......


I have very much taken to use the name "Yeshua/Yahshua" as I like it. It's what the original disciples would have known our Lord as. I DO NOT deny the Trinity or the divinity of Christ.......stop being wierd, people.
Old 01-12-2011, 12:27 PM
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Catholics have venerated the Holy Name of Jesus for quite some time now.
Old 01-12-2011, 12:28 PM
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I have very much taken to use the name "Yeshua/Yahshua" as I like it. It's what the original disciples would have known our Lord as. I DO NOT deny the Trinity or the divinity of Christ.......stop being wierd, people.
The disciples didn't speak English, we do. So they would not have used the name Jesus.

Hebrew is one of those languages who have meaning behind the letters in the word. It is a beautiful language. While the English language does not do that, the name Jesus has a great deal of meaning to those who use it correctly. It also means salvation and our blessed hope.

No one is being weird. There is a group who claim that those who do not use those names are embracing pagan traditions by using the English name.

It is a discussion.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Selah View Post
The disciples didn't speak English, we do. So they would not have used the name Jesus.

Hebrew is one of those languages who have meaning behind the letters in the word. It is a beautiful language. While the English language does not do that, the name Jesus has a great deal of meaning to those who use it correctly. It also means salvation and our blessed hope.

No one is being weird. There is a group who claim that those who do not use those names are embracing pagan traditions by using the English name.

It is a discussion.
Well I certainly got the impression from the OP that those who use Yeshua are "guilty by association" to some cult who decided to use the Hebraic name for our Lord back in the 30's or whenever......as if they invented it or something......
Old 01-12-2011, 12:35 PM
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Well I certainly got the impression from the OP that those who use Yeshua are "guilty by association" to some cult who decided to use the Hebraic name for our Lord back in the 30's or whenever......as if they invented it or something......
Then you did not click on the links or fully understand the point made in the OP.

Glad to have helped clarify.
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