Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Firearms and Other Weapons Forum > Firearms General Discussion > Shotgun Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Shotgun Forum Mossberg, Winchester, Remington, Benelli....

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2011, 05:15 PM
sargon's Avatar
sargon sargon is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Socialist State of Illinois
Posts: 181
Thanks: 18
Thanked 241 Times in 91 Posts
Default One load for all hunting during shtf.



Advertise Here

I am wanting to load up a "do it all" hunting load. I would be using it for everything from squirrel to geese. I will be loading 12 ga 2 3/4 shells using Hodgdon Longshot powder.

I am wondering if it is better to go with 1 1/4 @ 1385 fps or 1 3/8 @ 1240 fps? I am thinking #4 shot.

Your thought please.
Old 01-11-2011, 05:21 PM
Cryptkeeper's Avatar
Cryptkeeper Cryptkeeper is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,137
Thanks: 4,753
Thanked 5,425 Times in 2,741 Posts
Default

#4 shot sounds about right its not the best for deer but will kill them and not to much over kill for rabbit
Old 01-11-2011, 06:27 PM
sargon's Avatar
sargon sargon is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Socialist State of Illinois
Posts: 181
Thanks: 18
Thanked 241 Times in 91 Posts
Default KISS

Keep it simple stupid. I really need to do that.

I load for trap shooting but target loads are not going to be what I want to depend on if shtf. Since I reload I want to load up a few hundred serious hunting load that will keep me alive if need be. I am talking about harvesting something to eat.
Old 01-11-2011, 09:04 PM
ManyFeathers's Avatar
ManyFeathers ManyFeathers is offline
My Dixie Wrecked
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Republic of Texas
Age: 55
Posts: 6,139
Thanks: 7,686
Thanked 16,258 Times in 4,572 Posts
Default

Well now, all I'll say is:

All I load are 1 1/4 ounce loads for all my shotgunning

I change shot size based on need but generally only use 3 sizes 4, 6, and 7 1/2

4 on turkey. 6 on pheasant and 7 1/2 on quail and dove

Sometimes in windy conditions, I'll drop down to 4 on pheasant.

Can't explain why other than almost 40 years of experience shooting birds.


FWIW
The Following User Says Thank You to ManyFeathers For This Useful Post:
Old 01-13-2011, 09:21 AM
sargon's Avatar
sargon sargon is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Socialist State of Illinois
Posts: 181
Thanks: 18
Thanked 241 Times in 91 Posts
Default Thanks

I will pick up a Mec charge bar and get busy.
Old 01-13-2011, 12:12 PM
Groovy Mike's Avatar
Groovy Mike Groovy Mike is offline
Immortal
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,411
Thanks: 500
Thanked 1,521 Times in 632 Posts
Default

If you are only using one shot size I'd go with #5 just because it works on turkeys as well as smaller game. Never tried it on water fowl, but I don'ts ee why it wouldn't work at close ranges.

The answer to your question is not as easy as that though. One load might shoot phenomenally well in my gun, and miserably in yours. Before you bet your life on one load you REALLY need to test it in your gun on game, repeatedly.

You wouldn't think of enetring a trap competition with a load that you hadn't shot dozens of trap rounds with. The same idea applies to hunting except it is way more important than anything you do with clay birds.
The Following User Says Thank You to Groovy Mike For This Useful Post:
Old 01-13-2011, 06:48 PM
ManyFeathers's Avatar
ManyFeathers ManyFeathers is offline
My Dixie Wrecked
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Republic of Texas
Age: 55
Posts: 6,139
Thanks: 7,686
Thanked 16,258 Times in 4,572 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sargon View Post
I will pick up a Mec charge bar and get busy.
Years ago I bought adjustable charge bars for both my 12 & 20 ga Mec loaders!

I love 'em......best thing since sliced bread!

BTW....best to use buckshot/slugs on deer
Old 01-17-2011, 01:25 AM
SeekHer's Avatar
SeekHer SeekHer is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 7,455
Thanks: 35
Thanked 5,260 Times in 3,129 Posts
Default

I'd be very leery about limiting myself to one pellet size, especially #4 on big game--it will not kill a deer at 50 yds--I've seen it happen a couple of times==Hell, they barely wounded them...Remember that #4 is only .130 and with 202 pellets per oz--that's a lot of energy being dissipated over a lot of pellets, that lack sufficient mass to penetrated deep enough to reach vital organs even if you shoot them from super magnum loads...I've seen magnum loads of it literally bounce of geese at 50 yards.

I don't hunt big game with a shotgun but I do bird hunt and I use #5 for everything except geese and turkey where I use #2...I don't have quail here so #7½ isn't needed and the #5 takes rabbits to ducks and geese over decoys (properly choked), pheasants and ruffed grouse...#2 I use for pass shooting geese and called turkeys but that's out of an old 10 bore Ithaca Mag 10.

Ideal is slugs for game and two legged intruders farther away, buck for close in but only for two legged targets and then #2, #5 and if warranted #7½...Other would be #BB and #4 but I find then just a little heavy for Hungarian Partridge and Prairie Chicken and #6 a little too light to buck the continuous wind on the Prairies.
Old 01-17-2011, 01:35 AM
Survivalguy72 Survivalguy72 is offline
This is a great survival forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,868
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9,096 Times in 4,524 Posts
Default

I am for the KISS method as well. But in this case I would agree that one load isn't going to cut it.
Old 01-17-2011, 01:38 AM
Dan480man's Avatar
Dan480man Dan480man is offline
watcher
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 577
Thanks: 86
Thanked 486 Times in 274 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sargon View Post
I am wanting to load up a "do it all" hunting load. I would be using it for everything from squirrel to geese. I will be loading 12 ga 2 3/4 shells using Hodgdon Longshot powder.

I am wondering if it is better to go with 1 1/4 @ 1385 fps or 1 3/8 @ 1240 fps? I am thinking #4 shot.

Your thought please.

1 1/4 of #4 @ 1385 will "do it all", as you want.
Fine for squirrels to geese.
Old 01-17-2011, 01:50 AM
Kalifornia Guy's Avatar
Kalifornia Guy Kalifornia Guy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 2,344
Thanks: 2,199
Thanked 2,188 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default

For small game go for #4 shot, it works great on rabbits, ducks/geese (pass shooting) a little big for Quail/Dove but will work.
For Deer #4 Buck is too small to rely on for a quick kill and no way (Unless it's pointblank range) that #4 shot will kill the deer. Grab a few boxes of 00 Buck and a few boxes of slugs and if you have bears around 00B/Slugs will keep you safe.
Old 01-17-2011, 08:31 AM
Rob3 Rob3 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default

From a SHTF perspective, you might have to go out hunting to look for anything you might find. In this you may have to be prepared for rabbits, squirrels, birds, and maybe a shot at a deer or hog. Consider progressivley loading different loads in your shotgun so that the first shell might be #6, then #4, then 00 buckshot. That way if the first round does not kill whatever you come across you can keep shucking progressivley heavier shot at the critter until it goes down or falls out of the sky from the weight of all the lead.
Old 01-17-2011, 04:12 PM
petergunn's Avatar
petergunn petergunn is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 54
Posts: 1,922
Thanks: 911
Thanked 1,964 Times in 954 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sargon View Post
Keep it simple stupid. I really need to do that.

I load for trap shooting but target loads are not going to be what I want to depend on if shtf. Since I reload I want to load up a few hundred serious hunting load that will keep me alive if need be. I am talking about harvesting something to eat.
I use HS-6, my small game load is 1-1/4 #6 I load 9 pellet 00 and 27 pellet #4 buck with HS-6 also.
Old 01-17-2011, 04:17 PM
Schue Schue is offline
Living Life
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Travel around alot.
Posts: 241
Thanks: 37
Thanked 304 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I do not reload my ammo... Yet!

Why not make several different loads? There is not a one load fits all for a shotgun, maybe a 30-06.

I have bought several different shells for several different scenarios for my 12ga.
Old 01-17-2011, 10:53 PM
Dan480man's Avatar
Dan480man Dan480man is offline
watcher
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 577
Thanks: 86
Thanked 486 Times in 274 Posts
Default

Thats not a stupid question. It's an obvious answer.
The OP did ask about 1 load though for squirrel to geese.

There is some merit in having a more "diversified" '1' game load though.
Like a #4-7 1/2 mix, #2,6 mix etc., for squirrel to geese.
Old 01-17-2011, 11:53 PM
shootandfish1 shootandfish1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 167
Thanks: 31
Thanked 82 Times in 63 Posts
Default

For small game, one needs to match the shotguns choke to the hunting conditions/type of game, then pick a proper shot size.

For 12ga/full - #4 mostly,#5
12ga/Mod - # 5 mostly (favorite rabbit/sqirrell load), #6 (some),#7 1/2 for smaller birds
12ga/IC - #6 for close-in rabbits , #7.5 for game birds.

For 20 ga., pretty much same, except that I feel that 20ga/IC patterns are to thin except for #7.5-8 for small gamebirds.


I grew up hunting before screw-in chokes were common. My hunting buddies used 12 ga./mod/#5 in low power for about 99% of the time.

For squirrel hunting, I also like a 20 ga/full with either #4 or 5 in high power. I also carried #4 low power loads for close shots (not as many pellets). I used a single shot as it was easy to swap loads.


In short, one needs to stock shot/powder for different uses. For the small game hunting, I grew up with , light loads worked well, I used to make sure my 3rd shot was a high base(a box would last for years) and be easy on the guns/shoulder.

Fred
Old 01-18-2011, 11:26 AM
Groovy Mike's Avatar
Groovy Mike Groovy Mike is offline
Immortal
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,411
Thanks: 500
Thanked 1,521 Times in 632 Posts
Default

Another option - load one shell of #6, then a shell of 34, then a shell of OO buck, etc. No need to limit yourself to one load even in the same tube. many an old time hunter carried one barrel of the side by side shotgun with birdshot and the other with a slug load.
Old 01-19-2011, 10:52 AM
Mikema Mikema is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 79
Thanks: 0
Thanked 32 Times in 19 Posts
Default

I dont know much about reloading but could you load maybe 4 00 buckshot and some #5 shot in the same shell. That way you could shoot a bird and deer with the same shell. You would have to pattern it to see its limitations. I seen some people used to load smoothbore flintlocks with a large ball and some smaller ones during the revolution.

Just a thought, I wonder why you dont see combo shotshells like this. Like I said I dont know about reloading so maybe there is a good reason.


I think the strong point of a shotgun is all the different ammo. I can also see the advantage of a one shell that does it all.
Old 01-19-2011, 01:23 PM
andersed andersed is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,081
Thanks: 166
Thanked 639 Times in 395 Posts
Default

You ca get a lot of good advice on this forum on where to start, but you have to try it yourself. You just have to go out and shoot with YOUR shotgun, not someone else's that is the same model/gauge/choke. If you truly want to just keep 1 load, it has to be the one that your particular shotgun like.

I would say this though. Get around 100 slugs though. You are not going to get a load that is good for everything from a squirrel to a deer. Squirrel to a geese.... maybe.... but not squirrel to deer.
Old 01-19-2011, 03:20 PM
SeekHer's Avatar
SeekHer SeekHer is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 7,455
Thanks: 35
Thanked 5,260 Times in 3,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikema View Post
I dont know much about reloading but could you load maybe 4 00 buckshot and some #5 shot in the same shell. That way you could shoot a bird and deer with the same shell. You would have to pattern it to see its limitations. I seen some people used to load smoothbore flintlocks with a large ball and some smaller ones during the revolution.

Just a thought, I wonder why you dont see combo shotshells like this. Like I said I dont know about reloading so maybe there is a good reason.

I think the strong point of a shotgun is all the different ammo. I can also see the advantage of a one shell that does it all.
What you're referring to is called "Buck & Ball"--the soldiers would load their .69 or .74 calibre muskets with the proper ball but they would throw a few extra smaller buckshot in so that more pellets would be travelling downrange to hopefully hit a target...It worked extremely well...These are being shot though at ranges of 30 to 50 yds apart.

I've been using mixed loads for decades and experimented with all kinds of combinations using buck and bird, mixed buck etc. but you aren't adding over what's in the shotshell you're replacing! It really is simpler to have two scales going and this way you can add or remove a pinch or two to the load but pay careful attention to your powder

Problem lies in that adding more weight before the powder charge--that's been unaltered will of course go slower, with less energy and less energy means less penetration...If you increase the powder you could get to the point of excessive pressure--popped primers, stuck case etc. are indication of it. to maybe getting a bulged barrel from back pressure--you really don't want that.

Firstly; If your load is for 1½ oz of pellets and if 8 #00 buck weigh 1 oz then you can only load ½ oz of whatever you want which of course means more pellets if smaller shot but smaller shot = smaller mass, smaller mass = less penetration, less penetration = less wounding, trauma, shock, blood loss.

You don't need a major reloading setup if you're only doing a few mixes at a time...Open the crimp remove the pellets your replacing, insert the pellets you want to add and recrimp..The little Lee Classic Loader will do the job for around $30 but it's quite slow.

#2 buck & #2 bird worked good but #4 buck and #2 bird patterned better for getting rid of feral dogs on the farm and or #4 buck and #4 bird was ideal for feral cats and fox until I came up with #F and #2 as well as #TT and #3 bird if you can get it, #4 if not...It had more to do with what the store had in stock then it wasn't available...You'll see a lot of mixing in clay target shooting.

What you have to do is pattern each and every load on paper to see what kind of spread your special, super-duper, custom load makes—some combos just didn’t work well together but that was from out of a certain choke but would work quite well out of another choke—tighter or looser is what you’re trying to find out… All my info was destroyed in a house fire five years ago… Keep detailed records of each load, powder used, velocity if known, type of husk—plastic or paper, high or low or all brass, shot mix, type of shot*, choke used & maker*, etc.

Try experimenting with the different types of shot mixed together like *8copper and Bismuth or lead or Hevishot—stuff that wasn’t around 30 years ago when I did my experiments…Also some choke tubes while they say Modified 60% are different when made by *another company—may only be out a couple of points one way or the other but enough to miss a bird/clay…So check them against your load data.


Shot... Dia.......Pellets Approx
Size......(in)........in 1 Oz

Buck Shot
#0000….0.38……...3.5
#000….. 0.36.…....6.25
#00….... 0.33….....8.13
#0…...... 0.32..…...9
#1…...... 0.30….. 10.6
#2 …..... 0.27….. 12.5
#3 …..... 0.25….. 18
#4…...... 0.24….. 20.3
Transitional Shot
#F…...... 0.22….. 28.1
#TT….....0.21….. 29.5
#T….... . 0.20….. 31.3
#BBB…...0.19….. 43.8
#BB….....0.18….. 46.5
#B…...... 0.17….. 50
Bird shot
Marginal on humans

#1…..... . 0.16…..70.8
#2…..... . 0.15…..93.8
#3…..... . 0.14……113
Below this for small game, waterfowl and clay sports
It's nearly useless on human targets, even really close.
#4…..... . 0.12…...150
#5…..... . 0.11…...200
#6…..... . 0.10…...250
#7…....... 0.095….340
#7½….. . 0.09…...400
#8…..... . 0.085...450
#9…..... . 0.08…...580


Choke Tubes.....
% in a 76cm/30" circle
at 37M/40 yds

Cylinder.....40
Skeet.........45
Skeet 1.....(46.5) Approximately
Skeet 2.....(48.5) Ditto
Imp Cyl......50
Light Mod...55
Modified.....60
Imp Mod.....65
Light Full....68
Full.......,,....70
Extra Full….75
Super Full...80



Welcome to the Dark Side!
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SKS VS HOWA 1500 For hunting/SHTF Pacifico23 Firearms General Discussion 21 11-26-2010 11:56 PM
SHTF hunting. Forevrbanned Hunting and Trapping General Discussion 125 08-17-2010 08:51 AM
Lock and load SHTF time BOBtheBUTCHER Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 45 01-30-2010 07:19 AM
Hunting animals - SHTF Herd Sniper Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 70 09-25-2009 03:55 AM
Hunting And Laws When The SHTF Kalashnikov Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 19 01-08-2008 10:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net