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Old 01-08-2011, 05:47 AM
slreynolds slreynolds is offline
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Default Converting swimming pool



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I have a very large swimming pool I would like to enclose into a cellar. I searched threads and found suggestions to do that but no one who had done or seen it. Is there anyone with experience in building who could tell me if this is possible or ridiculously expensive to do. I couldn"t find anyone who had building suggestions on a google search either. I"d love to see pictures of projects already done. It seems like there would be folks out there who have already done this.
Old 01-08-2011, 06:26 AM
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this may sound like a joke, but please make sure that the roof is water tight if you do this as although its obvious, if you get any water in there it could just fill up,and for that same reason i would leave the drain, if there is one open.

just my thoughts.
Old 01-08-2011, 06:43 AM
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Just off the top of my head. Having the drain would be a plus and I would not close it. The slope of the pool would be perfect to drain any water that could get in.
Old 01-08-2011, 06:46 AM
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Biggest problem I can think of it that they're designed to be filled. Empty and they could pop up just from ground water (hydraulic pressure). I've seen it happen to a few.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:48 AM
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I was thinking with a cement roof and ground cover that would be enough counterweight to keep that from happening but I really don"t know.
Old 01-08-2011, 06:59 AM
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Well, the navy is made of steel ships and they float. They even add weight (ballast) to keep them from rolling over, besides all the machinery and fuel and water tanks, decks, bulkheads etc.

The weight would have to be significant. As an example, my pool holds 24,000 gallons. Even at half full, like during the winter, that's 12,000 gallons. At 8.35 lbs per gallon that's over 100,000 pounds.
Old 01-08-2011, 07:17 AM
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this year i bought a forclosed house, which has an inground pool...its covered, and i have no idea what shape the liner is in...I'm not a pool guy, more of a hot tub guy, and i'm not in the mood to pay 2 grand for a new liner "if" it needs it.

This idea of turning it into a cellar is interesting,,i think you would have to build a bunker in the center of the pool, leaving room underneath for water drainage, and then backfilling around the structure with dirt.

For what these in ground pools cost to put in "$20,000 bucks" i can't believe less than 10 years later a new owner like me is ready to back fill it in,,some investment,,definetly doesn't add to the value of a house.

I know this didn't really help your problem, more of a rant!
Old 01-08-2011, 07:24 AM
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could you not build a standard house style roof, or get pre stressed concret slabs

http://www.britishprecast.org/associ...t-flooring.php

then its just a matter of waterproofing it.
Old 01-08-2011, 07:32 AM
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I would have a couple concerns. First the concrete in pool construction is typical a lighter weight concrete, not typically meant to be load bearing. Second would be that there are no footing under the walls to help disperse any weight that would be put on the walls of the pool by what ever you would be using to construct the roof. I would assume, metal or wooden floor trusses or steel decking with several inches of concrete above.

If it could handle the weight my choice for the roof would be the steel decking and concrete. After water proofing and waterproofing again, I would cover with loam and and seed to make it look like a lawn.

Definately an area that I would get some engineering advice.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muinmdw View Post
I would have a couple concerns. First the concrete in pool construction is typical a lighter weight concrete, not typically meant to be load bearing. Second would be that there are no footing under the walls to help disperse any weight that would be put on the walls of the pool by what ever you would be using to construct the roof.

Definately an area that I would get some engineering advice.
Exactly what I was thinking. Since I am in the New Madrid zone I also tend to think about quakes and a pool full of water has the support of the water, a pool empty and those walls could come in much easier since they are sorta designed only not to go OUT.

Would be a real pain to loose a lot of stuff over a minor cost difference. I bet it would not cost much more to have the pool removed and a vault put in than it would to make the pool strong and safe enough.
Old 01-08-2011, 09:04 AM
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I once went to a garage sale where the guy had mad his pool into a storage area, it was many years ago and didn't really pay attention to how he did it but he did say its been like this for many years, but it was in Califonia and there isn't much of a water problem there.
Old 01-08-2011, 11:03 AM
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location ,location ,location,
if you are well above a regular water table or the side of a hill , chances are an empty pool is not going to float. If you were going to attempt such a thing I would recomend a drilling at the bottom and installing a clear plastic hose or pipe to see if any , there is a water presents and at what level it occurs . If the drain is working clearly . then any water that might lift it would drain just the same, but you need to provide holes in the floor to alow this to occur. float problem solved.
Long as you are drilling holes set up anchor points and rebar for a foundation enough to build a floor on . retain access to the pool drain and be able to monitor water in the ground if it occurs . Might actually be a good source of water if tshtf. One thing you need to know so far as the drain goes . If it goes into the regular sewer system and the system relies on a pump station, put a cork in it and have your own pump to evacuate it as required you'd have to any way in a basement . If the ground water is high , figure on adding weight to it and keep it sealed, maybe a load of concrete to flatten out the floor and put in recievers for center support for the roof of it . If the concrete has a good bond to the existing floor , even if it does float if the unit is built well it might actually be a good thing. They made concrete boats too.
In california that may not be such a bad idea. build a boat in the space of the pool , If the big one hits and your boat is like a sub, it'll bob right to the top of the water like a cork . Gee I wish I though of that , oh ya, I did ." water world" here we come.
Old 01-08-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephpd View Post
Biggest problem I can think of it that they're designed to be filled. Empty and they could pop up just from ground water (hydraulic pressure). I've seen it happen to a few.
Fill it with food and ammo
Old 01-08-2011, 11:32 AM
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Default Roof Construction Codes

Nothing unique here ..... you have a "basement" that needs to be roofed over .........

You need to design the roof to handle snow load and water run off ..... give lots of thought to your entry point .......

If I was doing it .... I would try to maintain the "pool look" and keep your underground stores less obvious .......
Old 01-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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Pool wall mixes can get up to 4000 psi, which is more psi than most residential concrete applications. In addition, the rebar schedule looks more like a bridge deck than a poured wall.


Personally if I were in your shoes I would knock the bottom of the pool out, while trying to keep the drain usable for later. I would then pour footings from which I would build up with ICF(insulated concrete forms). Waterproof the outside of the foam form after it is poured.

I would then put a roof on top of it. Couple different options here, but I would insert joist hangers in the top coarse of the wall. There is a system made by a company called Simpson. It works great! This allows for the cap to be poured directly on top of the wall, which is important for waterproofing.

I would then do a concrete floor and back fill after that. I would do the floor before you back fill the walls.

For the cap I would do a decorative patio or fire pit on top. You could even do a basketball court for your kids, if you have any.

I envy you. It would be a lot easier to get the wife on board with something like this if there is already a hole in the ground. Good luck and keep us updated.
Old 01-08-2011, 11:52 AM
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If it's still capable of holding water, I think I'd be tempted to use it as emergency water storage. Water is one thing you can never really have enough of. Of course, I'm in a desert, so water is a big issue for me. You may have water sources nearby. If so, I can totally understand wanting the extra storage space.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:42 PM
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[QUOTE=HawkGuy;2274512]Pool wall mixes can get up to 4000 psi, which is more psi than most residential concrete applications. In addition, the rebar schedule looks more like a bridge deck than a poured wall.


Personally if I were in your shoes I would knock the bottom of the pool out, while trying to keep the drain usable for later. I would then pour footings from which I would build up with ICF(insulated concrete forms). Waterproof the outside of the foam form after it is poured.
QUOTE]

I guess it depends on where you live as in my area a pool is usually 3000psi with a max 3" slump and homes are usually 3500 to 5000 with a max 3" slump . I was a general contractor ( am also a licensed architect in ME, NH anf MA only practiced for a couple years prefered hands on building) in the northeast for for over twenty years and have never seen a pool have the strength and structural integrity of a concrete foundation for a home.

I like the idea of putting in the ICF, something most people can do on there own to cut labor cost and even pour the concrete themselves. I have used this technique several times and have actually built (my BOL being one) complete homes using ICF.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:57 PM
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Default What type of pool do you have?

What type of pool do you have? In ground pools can be a shell or gunite with rebar. It would greatly depend on what type of pool you have as to what you could do with it. Here is a link on gunite:

http://www.a1gunite.com/gunite.htm
Old 01-08-2011, 11:54 PM
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I don't think this sounds silly at all. Never even occured to me. Actually there are other applications that come to mind. Example would be using it as a tank for a rainwater system.
Old 01-09-2011, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkGuy View Post
Personally if I were in your shoes I would knock the bottom of the pool out, while trying to keep the drain usable for later. I would then pour footings from which I would build up with ICF(insulated concrete forms). Waterproof the outside of the foam form after it is poured.

I would then put a roof on top of it. Couple different options here, but I would insert joist hangers in the top coarse of the wall. There is a system made by a company called Simpson. It works great! This allows for the cap to be poured directly on top of the wall, which is important for waterproofing.

I would then do a concrete floor and back fill after that. I would do the floor before you back fill the walls.

For the cap I would do a decorative patio or fire pit on top. You could even do a basketball court for your kids, if you have any.

i agree with poured concrete. its the only thing i would trust.

if i understand pool drains correctly, the bottom drain is plubed into the system and designed to be pumped from the drain(as if there is water in it or pool is filled). WIthout a pump to suck water, the drain would be useless.

now if you tore up the vermiculite which is the pool foundation(or at least mine anyway) and just rerouted the drain away from cellar( in a downward angle) and left end uncapped i guess it would function as a regular drain. but the pool drain as it is now is plumbed into pump system and is sucked up to ground level. without pump water would just back up into cellar...
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