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Old 12-29-2010, 05:42 AM
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Default Thinking of getting a new GI PTR91



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My current "do everything" 308 rifle is a Winchester SXAR (civvy looking version of the FNAR). It's a sweet shooting rifle with a wonderful trigger and so far eats everything i shoot.

I'm considering selling it and getting a new GI PTR91.

Reason 1. The SXAR has no decent mounting option for Iron Sights.
Reason 2. The SXAR is set up more on the sniper end of the spectrum than MBR. I don't mind the weight (i'm 6'5" 250), but i hunted with it this year and it's not the easiest handling gun in the world.
Reason 3. It comes with a big warning from FN saying don't ever frickin disassemble this thing for any reason. Take it to a gunsmith.

So i started looking at all the 308 caliber rifles and at $900 bucks and with a barrel that no longer hates milsurp ammo i'm thinking i should give a go with the PTR.

I do have a few questions & concerns though.

1. Are velocities high enough on an 18" barrel for hunting shots out to 300yds? I like Hornady GMX gilded ammo and it doesn't expand well under 2000fps. For that matter, i know it will handle mislurp fine, but how about hotter premium hunting rounds?

2. Will a port buffer actually protect the brass enough that it can be salvaged? I'm starting to get into reloading.

3. I need at least 2moa. I know PTR inc guarantees them to 4 but i've read some reports of people getting far better. This seems like an issue i have to cross my fingers on, but it's deal breaker if i can't achieve it.

4. Are the irons usable from under those claw mounts?

5. Are there 5rd mags available for under $65 bucks? Cheapest i've found so far. The good news is that the 20rounders are dirt cheap, unlike the FNAR which are $60 minimum!

What do you guys think about the ptr91 gi as an all-round "do everything" shtf, deer, elk & defensive platform?


Last edited by Antiacus; 12-29-2010 at 05:43 AM.. Reason: obligatory pic
Old 12-29-2010, 08:49 AM
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Heckler and Coke will probably chime in soon. If he doesn't, shoot him a PM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:53 AM
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I had a PTR-91 - supposedly the GI PTR-91 fixes a lot of the issues that the PTR-91 had in regards to choking on certain types of ammo.

THey are extremely accurate rifles and providing the ammo problems have been fixed I would see no reason why it wouldn't be a good rifle for your intended uses.

And yes, the 18" barrel will have enough velocity for deer hunting out to 300m and then some - the .308 isn't velocity dependent and regardless will still be supersonic to out to at least 1km with an 18" barrel.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:44 AM
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Go for it, everyone needs a 308 battle rifle!
Old 12-29-2010, 04:01 PM
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Went down to the Baron's Den in Eugene and handled a PTR91f. I really like the balance of it and the weight was surprisingly light. Maybe from people's accounts i was expecting something heavy, but it was really very handy.

Perhaps also because i'm accustomed to my SXAR, Mosin 91/30, M700 etc...

I also like the FAL, although the examples they had were extremely rough, and the M1A.
Old 12-29-2010, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiacus View Post

I do have a few questions & concerns though.

1. Are velocities high enough on an 18" barrel for hunting shots out to 300yds? I like Hornady GMX gilded ammo and it doesn't expand well under 2000fps. For that matter, i know it will handle mislurp fine, but how about hotter premium hunting rounds?

Yes, in fact even my 16" PTR barrels are quite suitable for my 400 meter range. The 18" is quite capable to even 600 if you can actually see what you're shooting at. Shooting hot loads is no problem for the rifle, in fact the 1:12 heavy match barrel really likes some hotter and heavier loads. (170gr lapua comes to mind.)However, the felt recoil gets noticeably sharper, and sometimes brass is just not salvageable, no matter what you do.

2. Will a port buffer actually protect the brass enough that it can be salvaged? I'm starting to get into reloading.

Yes. With normal loads there will still be little indents or marks, but it'll be ok. It's not impossible to reload the brass without one either, but the buffer helps a lot.

3. I need at least 2moa. I know PTR inc guarantees them to 4 but i've read some reports of people getting far better. This seems like an issue i have to cross my fingers on, but it's deal breaker if i can't achieve it.

I really don't think the GI can meet 2moa out of the box to be honest. I'd expect 3-4" groups. That's nothing to shake a stick at, especially in a rugged battle rifle. You may very well squeeze 2moa out of it with quality ammo, and maybe some trigger work.

4. Are the irons usable from under those claw mounts?

Yes. The cheek weld for the optics is not so good though. A cheek pad works wonders.

5. Are there 5rd mags available for under $65 bucks? Cheapest i've found so far. The good news is that the 20rounders are dirt cheap, unlike the FNAR which are $60 minimum!

Yea, CETME 5 round mags are $10-20, and I think you can get them to fit. The HK mags are pretty rare and $50-65 is the cheapest I've seen them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiacus View Post
What do you guys think about the ptr91 gi as an all-round "do everything" shtf, deer, elk & defensive platform?
I think you can't go wrong. It's extremely reliable, fairly accurate, and has plenty of oomph in .308. You're only issue may be an inch or two larger groups, and it's a little heavy, but in my opinion, the platform is the front runner in affordability and "do everything" capability.

There is one more option for you if that 2moa is a definite got to have, if you find a used PTR91 stamped "JLD" or has an "A" prefix, then it has no ammo qualms at all, but has the match barrel. All other PTRs except the GI have trouble with tar sealed ammo, but nothing else I know of. I shoot the dirtiest steel cased russian junk there is in mine with no issues at all.

If you aren't planning on shooting a couple specific makes of ammunition, then I'd ignore the perceived ammo problems in the other variants.

I think you'd be pretty happy with any of the PTRs. I sure am.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiacus View Post
Went down to the Baron's Den in Eugene and handled a PTR91f. I really like the balance of it and the weight was surprisingly light. Maybe from people's accounts i was expecting something heavy, but it was really very handy.

Perhaps also because i'm accustomed to my SXAR, Mosin 91/30, M700 etc...

I also like the FAL, although the examples they had were extremely rough, and the M1A.
Yea, I have no issue with the weight either, but some people will moan about anything. People even have the gall to complain about the safety and cocking handle. Jeez. We're all spoiled brats these days imho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprout47 View Post
I had a PTR-91 - supposedly the GI PTR-91 fixes a lot of the issues that the PTR-91 had in regards to choking on certain types of ammo.
Chris at PTR has written me a couple emails to this effect. There should be zero problems with any ammunition. I've only seen a couple range reports though.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:16 PM
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Thanks so much man, i really appreciate it.

I'm pretty sure the ptr91 at my local shop said "ptr91 inc" on the side and i think the serial number started AW. I'll have to call them up to find out.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:31 PM
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Pretty much the only ammo that wouldnt run through my ptr was south African ammo and the American tactical Turkish crap.

It absolutely loved Radway Green British surp and shot sub-MOA out to the 200 yds I tested it at - I had a MSG91, which you can get for cheaper from PTR if you order without the bipod and magpul stock.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprout47 View Post
Pretty much the only ammo that wouldnt run through my ptr was south African ammo and the American tactical Turkish crap.

It absolutely loved Radway Green British surp and shot sub-MOA out to the 200 yds I tested it at - I had a MSG91, which you can get for cheaper from PTR if you order without the bipod and magpul stock.
Don't doubt a word of it. My F is pretty darn accurate as well. More accurate than I am, for sure. My 168gr SMK handloads are moa all day, even with the 16 inchers. When I first got a PTR I used indian surplus, that wa s mistake in a half. That junk wouldn't feed anything, the m1a I had at the time included.

All mine like german milsurp, despite the ammo warning. Radway shoots great as well, but my first ptr had some odd recoil tendencies with it. It's almost like it's in slow motion, I've never figured it out. I put a new recoil spring in and nothing changed. It was just a really, really, slow and really soft recoil compared to everything else. Not really a problem per se...
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:03 PM
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I think i will take your advise and get a JLD or GI model and a trigger job from one of the guys that do them. Shoot, it's under $100 bucks.

Then i'll work up a hand-load for hunting and if i can get it under 3moa i'll keep it.

Looks like if i order from cdnn i can get a claw mount for 1/2 price.

I sure appreciate the help. There is a mountain of info out there, but it's tough to wade through!

*edit*
Okay one more question. On the JLD's are the "target" barrels g3 spec? Example:
http://chicagolandsportbikes.com/for...12#post1654500
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiacus View Post
I think i will take your advise and get a JLD or GI model and a trigger job from one of the guys that do them. Shoot, it's under $100 bucks.

Then i'll work up a hand-load for hunting and if i can get it under 3moa i'll keep it.

Looks like if i order from cdnn i can get a claw mount for 1/2 price.

I sure appreciate the help. There is a mountain of info out there, but it's tough to wade through!

*edit*
Okay one more question. On the JLD's are the "target" barrels g3 spec? Example:
http://chicagolandsportbikes.com/for...12#post1654500
No, but they eat junk ammo all the same. The problem isn't the barrel, the problem is the depth of the internal flutes. All PTRs except the G.I. have heavy match barrels, some are partially fluted, and the 20" sniper version is fully fluted.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:58 PM
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I've made two five round magazines from 20 rounders. Not very difficult at all. A little hacksaw and file work and bending some metal for the floorplate. If I can find one I'll send you one for shipping cost. Lost my 91 in a divorce
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:06 PM
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I've made two five round magazines from 20 rounders. Not very difficult at all. A little hacksaw and file work and bending some metal for the floorplate. If I can find one I'll send you one for shipping cost. Lost my 91 in a divorce
I feel for your loss man. I was thinking it shouldn't be too hard to make a 5 round mag, and if you mess up you're only out a dollar...
Old 12-30-2010, 12:42 AM
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Probably easy to mod a 10-rd PTR mag to 5-rd's being that their floor plates use a simpler yet PITA design.
Old 12-30-2010, 03:12 PM
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Default Dont do it

I had a PTR91f and I hated it. It would FTE about every 4-5 rounds on Lake City ammo. Plus it put huge crimps in the cases that rendered them useless. If you're a reloader, and you should be if you're shooting .308, then this fact pretty much eliminates the PTR as a viable rifle for your collection.

I sold it and bought an M1A.

Aside from the FTE issues, I noticed that it was very heavy and seems to be made for large framed people. I am 5'8" and it just felt awkard, even though I do have large hands for my size.

Also, the stock handguard is a POS. It's too slick and smooth to be of any utility.

The trigger has a VERY heavy trigger pull, and is overall a massive hunk of metal impeding tactile feedback.

Cocking handle is very difficult to engage from it's "rested" position. It rests against the rifle. To cock it, you have to pull the handle out, then pull back on it. Once you pull the handle out, it's fine. However, the cocking handle is not ergonomic at all, and under stressful conditions, I think this would hinder a rapid malfunction fix, or reload. Mine got stuck all the time, and even bench rest shooting I had trouble with it. I found that I had to actually set the rifle down and use two hands to engage the cocking handle from the rested position.

I don't have these problems with my M1A, it's a much more comfortable MBR.
Old 12-30-2010, 03:23 PM
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Every time I save my above edited post, I think of something else that I hated about this rifle.

The sights SUCK. The rear sight is a barrel, notched "V". Twisting the barrel changes the elevation setting. There is no windage on the stock sights. Front sight post and hood actually impede sight picture. The front post is HUGE, and will cover a target at any distance.
Old 12-30-2010, 03:24 PM
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Oh yea, takedown on this thing is a bitch. I spent about an hour and half the first time trying to get it back together. Cleaning is a PITA, and it gets very dirty on the inside.
Old 12-30-2010, 03:25 PM
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Oh yea, another thing. The stock has sling attachment that is side mounted. WOW, that seems comfortable!

I couldn't ever find a sling or carry method for this thing that was amenable to anything other than bench rest shooting.
Old 12-30-2010, 03:27 PM
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Another thing, recoil was significantly increased over my M1A. It was somewhere between a semi-auto and a bolt gun. It hurt my shoulder awhile to shoot it. Also when fired, mine always kinda gave me a harmonic ring, like it was vibrating the inside components and the thing wasn't put together right. Almost like the difference between driving a nice new car on a bumpy road, versus an old POS that has broke down suspension. The PTR has some broke down suspension.

Can you tell I didn't like it yet?
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