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Old 05-29-2008, 10:32 AM
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Found this short but informative article on vegetarian survivalism. Some of the suggestions are from a book titled "Apocalypse Chow: How to Eat Well When the Power Goes Out", for all of my fellow vegetarians..........

You may be able to get vegan food in a disaster, but you can count on NOT getting vegan protein. For that reason your survival kit should focus on protein sources.

My basics for the car and work are canned beans and bean-based soups, tetrapak soup, individual packs of soymilk, vegan energy bars and crackers. SELECT LOW-SODIUM ITEMS, AS YOUR DIET MAY CONSIST ENTIRELY OF THESE FOODS. Since you may not have access to fresh fruit or vegetables for a while, also keep some vitamins or (my choice) Emergen-C packets on hand. I also keep a small bottle of spirits (vodka, brandy, etc.). Sometimes it’s just what you (or others) need to relax–and it can be used as an antiseptic.

Another item people should store away from home is a can of powdered soy or rice protein. I would assume that for several days, one would have access to bread, crackers, dried and canned fruits etc. from one’s work cafeteria, local stores, people’s houses, etc. The difficult thing will be vegan protein–and vitamin C.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:13 AM
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I believe you can easily meet your protein/calorie requirements eating potatoes & sunflower seeds.

6 baked potatoes = 16 grams of protein & 792 calories.
1 cup sunflower seeds = 32 grams of protein & 804 calories

Both potatoes and sunflower seeds can be grown in a garden and they will both keep for long periods in the right conditions, like a root cellar.

Throw in some foraged greens and berries to provide a more complete spectrum of vitamins and you should be able to live indefinitely. Anything else you have stored or can grow/hunt is just gravy.

I am not a vegetarian although I have followed various vegetarian diets for periods of time. I actually plan to grow a much larger variety of plants in my garden and to supplement it with chicken eggs. For anyone who thinks you need meat (or soy/dairy/beans) to get sufficient protein, I would ask you how many grams of protein you believe you need per day and how did you arrive at that number?
VW
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:18 AM
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Default Vegetarian Survivalism

Thanks VW, that was great. I would love to hear more responses to this!
Old 05-29-2008, 11:29 AM
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Unless you are well stocked in the veggy department I don't think it's all that possible to survive on all veggy diet especially if you have to forage. If you are doing for humane reasons I can understand but for health reasons...I would do some research into the health and nutrition effects of vegetarianism. It can seriously deplete your body of valuable proteins you will need for "bugging out".

Article: Myths and Truths about Vegetarianism
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstru...tarianism.html
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:55 PM
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[QUOTE=VW.;145718 For anyone who thinks you need meat (or soy/dairy/beans) to get sufficient protein, I would ask you how many grams of protein you believe you need per day and how did you arrive at that number?
VW[/QUOTE]

you need about a gram of protein per 3 lbs of body weight per day...my source is the USDA, the WHO recommends about .6 grams per 3 lbs.
that's for a normal lifystyle....throw in the physical stress and activity required for a true SHTF situation...not just a temporary blackout, and you should up that to 1 gram per 2 lbs of body weight.

for long term, sustained, survival you'll need more than sunflower seeds and potatos. strictly looking at protein requirements from a bottom line perspective....numerically, you can meet the numbers of grams of protein required....but what about the amino acids?

The human body requires 9 amino acids to be consumed from protein. Many plant proteins do not have all the required amino acids. Meat/animal proteins contain all the essential amino acids needed by the body. A vegetarian diet of complex carbohydrates such as rice, beans, potatoes plus some fruits will provide all 9 amino acide for complete daily protein requirements.

In any developed society it is almost impossible to be protein deficient. Even strict vegetarians can easily get all their protein requirements from complex carbohydrates. It is possible if a person consumes only sugar (simple carbohydrates) for extended period of time a protein deficiency may develop. Under normal circumstances a low protein diet is not a health concern.

Last edited by badkarma; 05-29-2008 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 05-29-2008, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
you need about a gram of protein per 3 lbs of body weight per day...my source is the USDA, the WHO recommends about .6 grams per 3 lbs.
that's for a normal lifystyle....throw in the physical stress and activity required for a true SHTF situation...not just a temporary blackout, and you should up that to 1 gram per 2 lbs of body weight.

for long term, sustained, survival you'll need more than sunflower seeds and potatos. strictly looking at protein requirements from a bottom line perspective....numerically, you can meet the numbers of grams of protein required....but what about the amino acids?

The human body requires 9 amino acids to be consumed from protein. Many plant proteins do not have all the required amino acids. Meat/animal proteins contain all the essential amino acids needed by the body. A vegetarian diet of complex carbohydrates such as rice, beans, potatoes plus some fruits will provide all 9 amino acide for complete daily protein requirements.

In any developed society it is almost impossible to be protein deficient. Even strict vegetarians can easily get all their protein requirements from complex carbohydrates. It is possible if a person consumes only sugar (simple carbohydrates) for extended period of time a protein deficiency may develop. Under normal circumstances a low protein diet is not a health concern.
So using the WHO requirement and a 160 pound man as an example:

160/3 = 53 grams of protein per day.

6 baked potatoes & 1 cup of sunflower seeds = 48 grams of protein
Add: 1 cup raspberries & 2 cups Kale for an additional 6 grams of protein and youíve exceeded your daily protein requirement for a 160 pound man.

What about amino acids?

Combining plant foods such as beans and rice to achieve the perfect amino acid ratio (as exemplified by the chicken egg) was a dietary theory widely disseminated via the book ďDiet for a Small PlanetĒ by Frances Moore Lappe, written in 1971.

In the 1981 edition of Diet for a Small Planet, Lappť recanted and explained that:
"In 1971 I stressed protein complementarity because I assumed that the only way to get enough protein ... was to create a protein as usable by the body as animal protein. In combating the myth that meat is the only way to get high-quality protein, I reinforced another myth. I gave the impression that in order to get enough protein without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing foods. Actually, it is much easier than I thought.Ē

By this time the protein combining myth had been repeated in dozens of widely distributed vegetarian cookbooks or books about becoming a vegetarian and so even today this unnecessary requirement to combine foods to get the proper amino acid balance is frequently repeated in mainstream media when the topic of vegetarian eating is brought up.

This is actually a wonderful example of how repeating the same lie over and over again can cause people to believe it despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Iíll finish by saying I believe the WHO requirements for protein are overstated and that we are actually in more danger of damaging our health from over consumption of protein then from under consumption. Iím not advocating a vegetarian dietÖas I said before Iím not a vegetarian. But I do think the meat and dairy industry has been deceitful in its enthusiastic nutrition education with a clear motive of increasing profits. Chances are you need less protein then you think which is important since finding adequate protein in a survival situation can be labor intensive and/or risky. If you want to read what the WHO has to say directly you can go to this link.
VW

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf
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Old 05-29-2008, 04:59 PM
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So...now you're going to add raspberries and kale to the potatos and sunflower seeds theory?

the whole point in my post was to illustrate that you need more than potatos and sunflower seeds to survive any length of time...a point you made yourself whether you realize it or not.

The fact that the human body needs 9 amino acids from protein is neither a lie nor is there overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Maybe you missed "A vegetarian diet of complex carbohydrates such as rice, beans, potatoes plus some fruits will provide all 9 amino acids for complete daily protein requirements." in the above post. Which hardly subscribes to the meat and dairy price gouging conspiracy.

So....30 days into a SHTF situation you'll have 180 baked potatos, 30 cups of sunflower seeds, 30 cups of raspberries, and 60 cups of kale lying around?

good luck with that

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Old 05-29-2008, 05:08 PM
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i like killing fluffy cute animals and eating them...........for me ..........the flesh of the dead (animals) is no1

also as was stated above you will need massive amounts of food stored or such a large garden that 1 will take up a great deal of your time and 2 could be noticed easier than a smaller patch.
Old 05-29-2008, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
So...now you're going to add raspberries and kale to the potatos and sunflower seeds theory?

the whole point in my post was to illustrate that you need more than potatos and sunflower seeds to survive any length of time...a point you made yourself whether you realize it or not.

The fact that the human body needs 9 amino acids from protein is neither a lie nor is there overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Maybe you missed "A vegetarian diet of complex carbohydrates such as rice, beans, potatoes plus some fruits will provide all 9 amino acids for complete daily protein requirements." in the above post. Which hardly subscribes to the meat and dairy price gouging conspiracy.

So....30 days into a SHTF situation you'll have 180 baked potatos, 30 cups of sunflower seeds, 30 cups of raspberries, and 60 cups of kale lying around?

good luck with that
The foods listed in my post, potatoes, sunflower seeds, kale, and raspberries were given to demonstrate the point that you can meet your protein/calorie needs on a simple vegetarian diet.

As I said in my original post I plan to grow a much wider variety of plants and supplement a plant based diet with chicken eggs. But I am not overly concerned with protein content. I am more concerned with how difficult it is to grow, harvest, and store.

For example, grains are the easiest to store, but Iíve never grown oats, wheat or barley so I donít know how difficult they will be to grow, harvest, or make useable such as in hulling the barley or rolling the oats. I hope to experiment with this next year. Potatoes, carrots, turnips, beets, rutabagas, apples, pears, cabbage, among other things can be kept through most of the winter in a root cellar and Iím fairly confident I can grow those successfully. Wild greens, garden greens, and berries can be harvested and eaten in season. Iím planning to relocate as soon as my house sells and as soon as I buy new property my first order of business will be to plant an orchard or forest garden which will include a variety of nut trees and vining soft fruits such as grapes. I can only hope some of it becomes established before the SHTF and also that Iím able to stay put to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Iím also interested in experimenting with growing peanuts, flax seed, millet & corn, some of which will be used as poultry feed.

Iím not really sure what to do about dog food at the moment. When I was a kid our dogs used to catch and eat field mice, rabbits, and birds. I suppose I can expect the dogs to forage to supplement whatever leftover table scrapes I can provide. Something more to think about.
VW

Last edited by VW.; 05-29-2008 at 06:38 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:55 PM
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one of the people in a doc i saw about living off the grid has several dogs. he mentions raising feeder stock. basically rodents or something that are fed to the dogs. he would catch them in traps.
Old 05-29-2008, 08:28 PM
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one of the people in a doc i saw about living off the grid has several dogs. he mentions raising feeder stock. basically rodents or something that are fed to the dogs. he would catch them in traps.
My ex used to raise rats to feed his pet snakes. He fed the rats table scrapes. Hamsters would be cuter.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Peach View Post
Found this short but informative article on vegetarian survivalism. Some of the suggestions are from a book titled "Apocalypse Chow: How to Eat Well When the Power Goes Out", for all of my fellow vegetarians..........

You may be able to get vegan food in a disaster, but you can count on NOT getting vegan protein. For that reason your survival kit should focus on protein sources.

My basics for the car and work are canned beans and bean-based soups, tetrapak soup, individual packs of soymilk, vegan energy bars and crackers. SELECT LOW-SODIUM ITEMS, AS YOUR DIET MAY CONSIST ENTIRELY OF THESE FOODS. Since you may not have access to fresh fruit or vegetables for a while, also keep some vitamins or (my choice) Emergen-C packets on hand. I also keep a small bottle of spirits (vodka, brandy, etc.). Sometimes itís just what you (or others) need to relaxĖand it can be used as an antiseptic.

Another item people should store away from home is a can of powdered soy or rice protein. I would assume that for several days, one would have access to bread, crackers, dried and canned fruits etc. from oneís work cafeteria, local stores, peopleís houses, etc. The difficult thing will be vegan proteinĖand vitamin C.
Rice is very sustaining. I've lived off it for (solely) for several months. Just palain white rice with a little mustard and vinegar at times.
I'm a recovering vegetarian (I slip sometimes). But in a worse case scenario a hand full of certain insects is plenty of protein...
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:50 AM
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I ran across these also, knew some of them already but very interesting.......

Acorns For Protein

Acorns are a good source of protein and calories. (squirrels eat them) Raw they taste very bitter.(tried it once and again I say once) The trick is to boil them out of the shell in several changes of water. The result is rather tastless and has the consitency of mushrooms. Add it to your stew and soup to stretch out your food supply.

Evergreen Tea

Needles from an evergreen tree can be made into a refreshing drink. Use only fresh green needles. Cut them into sections with a knife or crush them with a smooth rock. Ready two or three teaspoons of needles for every cup of water. Add them to a pot of boiling water, remove the pot from the heat source after a minute or so. Leave the needles in the pot for another 5 to 10 minutes stirring occasionally. Pour the mixture through a cloth to strain out the needles. Water taken from a stream or pond should be boiled regardless to kill any microorganisms. Evergreen needles are rich in vitamins A and C. You can sweeten the tea with sugar, honey, or maple syrup.

Root Stew

Many plants store sugar, starch, and other nutrients in there roots. Look for plants with soft thick roots. The best roots tend to spoil the fastest, so cook them as soon as possible. Clean them by holding the root under water and gently rubbing off the dirt with your hands. Never peel the root, the skin contains vitamins. Cut the roots into small chunks and boil them in water for about 5 to 10 minutes to soften them up. Roots though nutritious don't come with much of a flavour, add your own.
Old 06-09-2008, 01:04 PM
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When I was vegan, I conceded that if I needed to, I'd eat whatever it would take to stay alive.
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Old 06-13-2008, 09:08 PM
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Humans were not meant to be herbivores but omnivores getting most of what we can from meat whether red meat or fish. You would have to have a massive garden to actually live being a vegetarian especially since if SHTF and you start planting you better have a months worth of vegetarian friendly food on hand before you can harvest anyhting you planted.
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:04 PM
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I am not a vegitarian but I found this posting interesting and informative.
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:20 PM
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I am a vegan for various reasons, but I've decided I would eat animals if it were necessary for my survival. That said, most of the original posting is completely incorrect.

First of all, contrary to popular beleif, almost all foods, vegan and otherwise, contain some protein. And for most people, only 10% of calories need to come from protein to be healthy(growing children, pregnant women, and some athletes require more). Too much protein actually can cause many problems, including preventing the absorbtion of certain vitamins and minerals, and depleting the body of calcium. In short, it would be difficult to not get enough protein as long as you're consuming enough calories.

Second, vegan foods would probably to most abunant in a SHTF situation, especially a large scale or long term one. Of course fresh meat and animal products are perishable, so don't count on these if electricity is unreliable. Animal products are also the most resource intensive to produce in terms of food, water, etc, so these would be the most expensive and scarce foods. If you live in a farm, you may have access to meat for a while, but eventually you'll realize that you're better off eating the (increasingly scarce)grain that you're feeding your animals. If you have enought land that you can raise animals on pasture, thats great, because that actually is sustainable, as long as you have enough water for them, and the resources to guard them. If you're planning on hunting, trapping, or fishing to provide yourself with a bounty of wild game, you're not alone- many, many people have the same idea, and do you really think our few wild areas can support that? Overhunting will deplete these resources very rapidly.

If you plan ahead, your land can provide food from fruit trees and berry bushes with little effort, and gardens can provide a significant anount of vegetables, and all of these foods can be dried, canned, or fermented to store for long periods. Mushroom cultivation is also an excellent source of protein, since so little effort is needed to setup Chitake logs(misspelled on purpose, since apparently mushrooms are cursewords), which fruit for years. You can also forage for lots of wild vegetables, which will probably not be depleted as easily, since so few people actually know how to identify them.
Grains store for a very long time, and can provide plenty of protein. Quinoa and Amaranth as mentioned, are excellent survival foods, packed with complete protein, and fats. Amaranth is so dense with calories, that I have difficulty eating more than half a cup, because it fills me up so much(and I have a big stomache). If I was stuck on a desert island with a sack of amaranth and a bottle of multivitamins, I could last a really long time before food became an issue. Despite what the previous poster said, both quinoa and amaranth store for a very long time as long as they are kept dry. Quinoa grains have been found from hundreds of years ago that still germinated, and the name actually translates into 'seed of life'. Grains aren't really practical to grow an harvest in a garden, because they take a lot of land to grow a significant amount, and it is difficult to separate the grain from the chaff. However, it definitely makes sense stock up on large amounts of quinoa, amaranth, rice, oats, and other grains now.

In summary, the idea that vegans will have a harder time finding enough protein after a disaster is ridiculous. In fact, since vegans in general are more farmiliar with plant foods, they may find it easier to maintain a healthy diet. It is a great idea for everyone to store as much food and as many different foods as possible. But you're stored food will not be your only source of protein, unless it is your only source food. If you can find enough food, protein will not be an issue.
I mean no desrespect to the original poster or anyone else, but I felt the need to correct some misinformation. Also, sorry for the really long post.
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:34 PM
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In summary, the idea that vegans will have a harder time finding enough protein after a disaster is ridiculous.


I think it is very well founded and it is the vegetarian who is living in a fantasy world. The bottom line is vegetarianism is an affection that can be indulged in healthfully only in a fully functional society.


In fact, since vegans in general are more farmiliar with plant foods, they may find it easier to maintain a healthy diet.
Familiar with cultivated plants no longer available. A great skill that will sustain their lives, no doubt.
Old 07-02-2008, 11:48 PM
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As soon as I'm done moving I'm going to start a video series on wild edible plants of the pacific northwest, but there are some great books out there on most locations and if there are any first nations peoples around they may (or may not) have invaluable knowledge of plants, harvesting, and prep. (Some things are quite ghastly tasting or even toxic but prized food once cooked in water a few times).

If you're near a coastline then harvesting various seaweeds and drying them is an excellent source of vitamins and protien, most trace minerals, B12.

Guerrilla gardening is a good idea if you're staying put in one area. Toss seeds around everywhere. I'm planting corn in every park in this city just to see what happens. lol
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