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Old 12-02-2010, 02:49 PM
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Default 5.56 and big game



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A friend of mine recently went on a guided ram hunt (not my cup o tea, but whatever). As it took place on a private ranch he was allowed to take whatever he wanted. He took his Colt Ar-15 HBAR Carbine.. now knowing my friend he probably took the cheapest ammo he had (Wolf 55gr fmj no doubt).

His first shot was pretty dead on (standard front shoulder shot), and had little effect, his second was a bit off (near the rear hip, high, close to the spine). His 3rd struck near the first, and FINALLY, yes... I know, Finally his 4th shot struck forward of the first 2 in the neck and brought down the ram.

I know that 55gr is light, and FMJ is not the ideal round for the job. I am also aware that there is no shortage of info out there regarding hunting load info. I'm merely curious to hear anyone's personal experiences with 5.56/.223 on whitetail or larger game, what twist/load/bullet you used, and what kind of success you had.

Thanks for reading!
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:06 PM
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I thought it was illegal ?
Old 12-02-2010, 03:13 PM
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If he had been using FMJ in one of the .30 caliber cartridges, he may have had nearly the same results. This is part of the reason I don't like FMJ for personal defense.
Old 12-02-2010, 03:13 PM
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Your friend sounds like a horrible shot. Tell him to hit the range more before tearing up some more caged game......

As for the .223/5.56 and whitetail...ask this guy:

Old 12-02-2010, 03:16 PM
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First let me say that you should probably demand your friend spend some more time at the range.
Second I will say that inside of 150 yds. or so the .223 rd. is quite deadly on game under 200 lbs. I use the 55 gr. xm193 on hogs here and as long as you don't try and stretch the range that round is adequate because of it's characteristic fragmentation.
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:36 PM
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2rugers said exactly what I was going to say literally to the word.

I use 7.62x51mm FMJ on TX hogs, but keep the shots under 250m for the most part. This helps to ensure an exit wound. ( Works well on 2 legged critters as well)

I have used 60gr soft tips(223) on hogs and whitetail deer, and as already mentioned...... it will do the job if the hunter does theirs.
With that being said...I wouldnt use 223 for northern white tails, Mulies, Elk or moose, unless that was all I had, and needed to hunt said animals to survive.

Incorrect shot placement on an animal with bullets designed for hunting will yield less than stellar results, much less FMJ.

If this was a guided hunt, how come the guide didn't back your buddy up with his own rifle?



11B
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:53 PM
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i don't know about other state but 223 is illegal to hunt big game with here and thats why
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:59 PM
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i don't know about other state but 223 is illegal to hunt big game with here and thats why
Some states it is, and some it isnt. It is always a good thing to know the rules and regs of the state you want to hunt in.

11B
Old 12-02-2010, 04:23 PM
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You could shoot it with a 450 marlin, but a poorly placed shot still wont get a kill. Well maybe with a 450 marlin, but not all the time.
Old 12-02-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post

If this was a guided hunt, how come the guide didn't back your buddy up with his own rifle?


11B
no clue, i'll have to ask. Afraid I've never been on a guided hunt
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:58 PM
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Before we get into a ****ing contest, let me say this;


Shot placement.
Shot placement.
Shot placement.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
Before we get into a ****ing contest, let me say this;


Shot placement.
Shot placement.
Shot placement.
Oh I agree... obviously a nice head shot would have been the end of it. Unfortunately that just isn't always plausible. Now I didn't witness the shots, only the aftermath.
Old 12-02-2010, 05:04 PM
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Agree and the bullets definitely matter. Need a softpoint for hunting.
Old 12-02-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk79 View Post
Oh I agree... obviously a nice head shot would have been the end of it. Unfortunately that just isn't always plausible. Now I didn't witness the shots, only the aftermath.
Personally, I'm totally opposed to using a round literally designed for squirrels, rats, and other vermin to hunt big game, but with proper shot placement it's fine if it's legal in your state.

I'll stick with .308, but it's still all about shot placement and ammo selection.

Big game, .223, non-vital hits, and 55gr FMJ just isn't a good mix...
Old 12-02-2010, 05:12 PM
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His first shot if true was a killing shot, however a solid .233 is not a quick kill. Had he sat and waited the lungs would have collapsed and the ram would have laid down. This is not a wise choice. The 55 grain nosler partion or a 55 gr. SP or 64 gr. sp would do for 200 lbs or less at less than 150 yrds. in most standard .223 barrels and their twists.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk79 View Post
A friend of mine recently went on a guided ram hunt (not my cup o tea, but whatever). As it took place on a private ranch he was allowed to take whatever he wanted. He took his Colt Ar-15 HBAR Carbine.. now knowing my friend he probably took the cheapest ammo he had (Wolf 55gr fmj no doubt).

His first shot was pretty dead on (standard front shoulder shot), and had little effect, his second was a bit off (near the rear hip, high, close to the spine). His 3rd struck near the first, and FINALLY, yes... I know, Finally his 4th shot struck forward of the first 2 in the neck and brought down the ram.

I know that 55gr is light, and FMJ is not the ideal round for the job. I am also aware that there is no shortage of info out there regarding hunting load info. I'm merely curious to hear anyone's personal experiences with 5.56/.223 on whitetail or larger game, what twist/load/bullet you used, and what kind of success you had.

Thanks for reading!
Well, I've been hunting deer and wild boar with the 5.56x45 round for almost 30 years and have had great success with it. Using the 62gr JHPBT or JSPBT round is VERY effective in bringing down these animals although the 55gr JSP round is no slouch either. As with ANY caliber or round, shot placement is key to the "one shot...one kill" principle. A firearm is only as good as the shooters proficiency.

A few years back I brought down a wild boar in east Texas known as the "piney woods rooter" which can grow quite large which dressed out at almost 570lbs with a head shot using the 62gr JSPBT which was a devastating hit. My aiming point was at the base of the ear at just under 100 yards. With deer, my aiming point is at the base of the head for which I have dropped a significant number of them.

Practice to proficiency and consistency is key with ANY firearm. My $0.02 worth on this subject.

I choose the 62gr round because both my AR15 and M4 have 1:9 barrels, 16" and 20" respectively.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by American ME! View Post
Well, I've been hunting deer and wild boar with the 5.56x45 round for almost 30 years and have had great success with it. Using the 62gr JHPBT or JSPBT round is VERY effective in bringing down these animals although the 55gr JSP round is no slouch either. As with ANY caliber or round, shot placement is key to the "one shot...one kill" principle. A firearm is only as good as the shooters proficiency.

A few years back I brought down a wild boar in east Texas known as the "piney woods rooter" which can grow quite large which dressed out at almost 570lbs with a head shot using the 62gr JSPBT which was a devastating hit. My aiming point was at the base of the ear at just under 100 yards. With deer, my aiming point is at the base of the head for which I have dropped a significant number of them.

Practice to proficiency and consistency is key with ANY firearm. My $0.02 worth on this subject.

I choose the 62gr round because both my AR15 and M4 have 1:9 barrels, 16" and 20" respectively.
Thank you! Great info...

One thing... are you aware that your jet is wearing a tutu?... just saying
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2rugers View Post
First let me say that you should probably demand your friend spend some more time at the range.
Second I will say that inside of 150 yds. or so the .223 rd. is quite deadly on game under 200 lbs. I use the 55 gr. xm193 on hogs here and as long as you don't try and stretch the range that round is adequate because of it's characteristic fragmentation.

I second wholeheartedly your entire statement brother, mainly because I know you personally and that your knowledge/experience with firearms is well above average.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk79 View Post
Thank you! Great info...

One thing... are you aware that your jet is wearing a tutu?... just saying

You're quite welcome bro! To me from what I've seen here and often at that, the .223/5.556x45 round seems to be a very underestimated round which IMHO is foolhardy at the least. Those that have alleged "shear luck" for both my and others successes...Is all the years I've been hunting with it "shear luck" too?

As for that "tutu" surrounding that F18....that is a shockwave formed from breaking the sound barrier....going supersonic...very smooth ride at that.

Last edited by American ME!; 12-02-2010 at 05:46 PM.. Reason: just stating the facts as I've experienced them...your results may vary
Old 12-02-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
Before we get into a ****ing contest, let me say this;


Shot placement.
Shot placement.
Shot placement.



Every time!
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