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Old 11-03-2010, 03:51 PM
2DOGS 2DOGS is offline
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Default .22 Magnums as weapons for shtf.



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A friend of mine who is into survival/prepping showed me his firearms for survival and self defence. He has several .22 magnum rifles and 2 revolvers chambered in .22 magnum. Some of the rifles are scoped and some are not. He says that these will do as his defence and food gathering weapons if the need arises. I have 2 firearms chambered in .22 magnum but was not thinking of using them as my primary survival/defence firearms. Any thoughts on this one good or bad? SEMPER FI
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:04 PM
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Even though there are some fast 22lr's out there, they do that by using lighter bullets.

22 magnum is an excellent choice. However, get a chamber adapter so you can use 22lr in a pinch. IF I was overly concerned about leaving where I am, I would purchase a 22 magnum. However, a 22 magnum is an excellent firearm for a serious small game hunter. Since while hunting ,you don't shoot a ton like plinking, ammunition costs are much of a factor.

I am assuming this is an on foot situation. In this case, ammunition price does play a big role.

I am not a fan of rimfire handguns. They are not a very practical thing. Small game with a handgun takes a ton of skill. Even then you can miss too. However, the rifle makes up for that.

I think a rimfire rifle couple with a lighter weight, but capable handgun is a better choice. 9mm or 38 specials don't weight much compared to other calibers. Rifle for hunting, pistol for protection. Some modern handguns have rimfire conversion kits too.

For small game past 40-50 yards, a scope is close to necesary; unless you know your irons well. However, I require all my gun to have iron sights. I leave the firearm unscoped for numerous range trips before trying to scope them. Every now n then, the scopes come off for iron sight testing and making sure the scope base screws were on tight. I like to replace the screws with new ones afterwards. Avoid 22 rings and try to get a solid 1 piece design or weaver bases to use with standard rings. If going with 22 dovetails, I would heavily favor using burris rings. Remember to get a scope with a 50-75 yard parallax too. a 1/4" group 22lr rifle can act like a 1/2 to 3/4" group rifle with a scope desgined for longer ranges. On a budget, a shotgun scope or burris fullfield II rimfire scope will do fine.

Back to those 22 magnum down to 22lr adapters.


http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:22 PM
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My brother used to strap on a Ruger single six in .22 Magnum and walk into the badlands in Alberta. He then would call in coyotes and shoot them with the pistol. He shot quite a few that way and no one even could tell he had the pistol from a distance. Can't do that now, too many border patrolman making sure the Mexicans don't sneak into Canada and escape our welfare system.
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DOGS View Post
A friend of mine who is into survival/prepping showed me his firearms for survival and self defence. He has several .22 magnum rifles and 2 revolvers chambered in .22 magnum. Some of the rifles are scoped and some are not. He says that these will do as his defence and food gathering weapons if the need arises. I have 2 firearms chambered in .22 magnum but was not thinking of using them as my primary survival/defence firearms. Any thoughts on this one good or bad? SEMPER FI
Well, you can carry a sh%tload of ammo.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:01 PM
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Ballistically it is not honestly any better than 22lr under most occasions when it comes to defense. It won't punch through that much more flesh, clothing, bone, etc. to make a difference in a conflict. It is not heavy enough or fast enough to cause catastrophic wounds (blow of limbs) or stop someone in their tracks.

It will do everything a 22lr can do when it comes to hunting except (without the right loads) on really small game which can be destroyed with a body hit. It will also go above a 22lr in the size of game it can take.

Now when you get to a certain size (deer and up) the round starts to have almost tied performance with 22lr.

High Velocity 22lr rounds go about 1200fps when they are 40gr in weight. 22mag rounds go about 1800fps (close to 1900) when the are 40gr in weight.

Same'ish round (the 'jacket' on the .22mag is in essence a thin cover and not a true jacket) with one moving 600fps faster than the other. Due to the weight and the speed they are both below any stats that make them perform well or better than the other on larger targets.

Hitting a deer in the eye with either round has the same effect. Going for a lung shot with either will give you a wounded deer or with extreme luck and shot placement a chance at one.

It is not that the rounds are not different or that the .22mag is not a hotter round. It is that once you get to a certain size target you start to blur the lines.

.223 rounds at 68 grains going over 3,000fps are questioned as to if they are really effective against larger targets.

A round that is 2/3rds the weight and 3/5ths the speed is not a contender.

Is it deadly? Yes. Is it effective in a lot of ways? Yes.

Is it really a self defense round that will be noticeably more effective than .22lr? Not really.

And, I prefer and chose to shoot the .22mag. I like it better and would build on it if there were pack guns that catered to it. It just has limitations. One being a real variety of rounds,... no such thing as a subsonic or short round to keep the noise down or take very small game.

(22mag is also .224 in diameter so an adapter won't be 'as' accurate in it)
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:20 PM
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I like the .22 Mag...Yet it's not my first choice fo a survival/defensive cartridge...The ammo expense to performance ratio is not that good. If you are looking for a BOB gun then the smaller cartridges with a performance edge over the .22 RF might be worth persuing. I passed on the .22 mag. simply because of the expense of the ammo and lackluster performance when compared to .22 cal centerfire cartridges.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:35 PM
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In my opinion, a .22 WMR makes a good rifle for those who are recoil sensitive, and the pistol sharing the same round as the rifle is a big plus. .22 WMR has been used to humanely cull the deer herds in urban environments with head shots, where the reports and extra energy of higher powered center fire rifles would cause alarm from the city folks. My wifes bug out rifle is a .22 WMR Marlin bolt action, and her sidearm is a Ruger single six with the .22 WMR cylinder. The ability to pack more ammo is also a huge benefit to this cartridge. With the rifle I can put 8 shots into a nickle from the bench.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:33 PM
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Default Make yer own

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
Even though there are some fast 22lr's out there, they do that by using lighter bullets.

22 magnum is an excellent choice. However, get a chamber adapter so you can use 22lr in a pinch. IF I was overly concerned about leaving where I am, I would purchase a 22 magnum. However, a 22 magnum is an excellent firearm for a serious small game hunter. Since while hunting ,you don't shoot a ton like plinking, ammunition costs are much of a factor.

I am assuming this is an on foot situation. In this case, ammunition price does play a big role.

I am not a fan of rimfire handguns. They are not a very practical thing. Small game with a handgun takes a ton of skill. Even then you can miss too. However, the rifle makes up for that.

I think a rimfire rifle couple with a lighter weight, but capable handgun is a better choice. 9mm or 38 specials don't weight much compared to other calibers. Rifle for hunting, pistol for protection. Some modern handguns have rimfire conversion kits too.

For small game past 40-50 yards, a scope is close to necesary; unless you know your irons well. However, I require all my gun to have iron sights. I leave the firearm unscoped for numerous range trips before trying to scope them. Every now n then, the scopes come off for iron sight testing and making sure the scope base screws were on tight. I like to replace the screws with new ones afterwards. Avoid 22 rings and try to get a solid 1 piece design or weaver bases to use with standard rings. If going with 22 dovetails, I would heavily favor using burris rings. Remember to get a scope with a 50-75 yard parallax too. a 1/4" group 22lr rifle can act like a 1/2 to 3/4" group rifle with a scope desgined for longer ranges. On a budget, a shotgun scope or burris fullfield II rimfire scope will do fine.

Back to those 22 magnum down to 22lr adapters.


http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
Save those .22 mag emptys and cut off the rim base with a die grinder and wafer disc, run a # 1 wire guage bit through it by hand twisting gently...slide a .22 cal wire brush through it a few times and you have you a homemade adaptor...some times you may have to use a cleaning rod to remove it...works good in a resolver though..
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:53 PM
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As a second rifle a 22 mag is hard to beat, quieter than a CF but harder hitting than a LR. Same easy packing of lot's of ammo and my Marlin 882 is supremely accurate. Back the mag up with the CF of your choice and alot of bases would be covered.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:26 AM
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The jacket varies from one make to another.

The Winchester FMJ (Super X) are particularly good, able to penetrate a fairly thick piece of iron out of a rifle. The copper washed bullet's of course cannot.

It will punch through an Elk or Deer's skull quite nicely but is lacking on lung shots, as the bullet doesn't have enough velocity to do a tremendous amount of damage. The JHP (Super X) doesn't always stop in a deer skull but does do more damage.

It it ideal? No.
Is it a first choice? Not always but I carry a .22 Mag rifle more than not because of the increased power over the standard .22LR.

For defense? It's quite a bit better than the lowly .22LR, but a lack of suitable handguns that are affordable and reliable is an issue.

When considering the .22Mag, think in terms of 'poaching' rather than sport hunting and many of the concerns are removed.
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DOGS View Post
A friend of mine who is into survival/prepping showed me his firearms for survival and self defence. He has several .22 magnum rifles and 2 revolvers chambered in .22 magnum. Some of the rifles are scoped and some are not. He says that these will do as his defence and food gathering weapons if the need arises. I have 2 firearms chambered in .22 magnum but was not thinking of using them as my primary survival/defence firearms. Any thoughts on this one good or bad? SEMPER FI
Right up until you run out of ammo and all you can find is .22LR. I'd rather just start with .22LR. You don't give up a whole lot, and the ammo is not only much cheaper, but more available.

I'm a gun junkie and own a large number of them in all sorts of calibers. But I have never owned a .22 magnum even though I like the cartridge.
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:13 PM
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I've owned a .22 mag. (several actually) and they are nice and do provide a margin of performance over an .22 RF. Yet the cost of 22 mag ammo is way out of line with the performance of the cartridge...
When I can buy 2x boxes of 7.62x39 for less money than one box of 22 mag....That! right there says the cost of .22 mag ammo needs to come down.
For five bucks more or less...I can buy a 50 round box of .30 carbine (Tula). Like I said the .22 mag is a nice cartridge...It has it's uses...it's just too spendy...
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:31 PM
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I have a scoped Savage bolt rifle in 22 mag that is my feral cat remover. Dang cats wiped out the quail that used to be in my woodlot. Winchester 40 gr JHP's.
I also find my Single Six loaded with Remington Premiere ballistic tips rides comfortably in my pocket when I'm out doing chores or putting the animals up at night. That gives me the power of a 22LR rifle in a pocket sized package.
But for anything bigger than a possum or coon, use Robert Ruark's dictum: Use enough gun.
Old 11-04-2010, 08:31 PM
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I must say I am intrigued by the new Kel-Tec and if it wasn't for the name, I might have one already.
Old 11-04-2010, 09:17 PM
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Well I took a real nice 8 point buck at 125 yards with a single neck shot with a 22 magnum a few years back. I was going to check my hog traps and just happened to see the buck across a grain field. A target of opportunity. It will do to feed your family.
Old 11-04-2010, 09:29 PM
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I've got a 5 shot .22 mag revolver that is about the size of a PEZ dispenser. it packs some serious pop.

I also have a Marlin model 60 and another Marlin model 795. both are great guns.
Old 11-05-2010, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Right up until you run out of ammo and all you can find is .22LR. I'd rather just start with .22LR. You don't give up a whole lot, and the ammo is not only much cheaper, but more available.

I'm a gun junkie and own a large number of them in all sorts of calibers. But I have never owned a .22 magnum even though I like the cartridge.
Ummm that's why you stock up on ammo As for "not giving up much", dude look at a ballistic chart.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:04 AM
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That does not tell you much.

Unless you have an area that has a lot of coyotes/hares/very small deer/etc. (small medium game) then you won't have a real effective difference.

CCI 22lr 40gr Mini Mag
Muzzle = 1,235
50 Yards = 1,080
75 Yards = 1,035
100 Yards = 992

CCI 22mag 40gr Maxi Mag
Muzzle = 1,875
50 Yards = 1,574
75 Yards = 1,438
100 Yards = 1,319

There is no doubt that the .22mag shoots the same bullet faster however the speed that the bullet is travelling at by 50 yards is not enough to make it that much more effective on larger targets.
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:54 PM
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Default .22 Mag in a handgun.

IMHO a .22 Mag in a rifle is probably to much of a tweener to bet the farm on. I have stated before FWIW that if I had to walk away and live out for awhile, with only what I could carry, a 10-22 and an Air-Lite S&W with a variety of CCI ammo would be my choice. If I were staying put or had mechanized transport then something heavier than the .22 Mag would be the better choice.

A .22 Mag in a handgun though is a major waste of powder. You lose 40 to 50% of your muzzle energy as opposed to a rifle length barrel. It is a long skinny rifle cartridge and in a short barrel the powder doesn't have enough time to burn. A lot of noise and flash but not much performance for the cost vs a .22 LR.
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:31 AM
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I for one like the .22 mag as a survival cartridge in a rifle. I happen to know that at under 50yds, a .22mag will drop a doe reliably. If you shoot for the heart/lungs, it will generate plenty of penetration. No head shots required. For deer I prefer jacketed solid rounds, but soft tips work as well.

I like it over a .22lr because I feel that you get a few extra yards of useful range out of it. The ammo is more pricey, but lets be honest, none of us are really going to need to pop off 10,000 rounds of any caliber. If you're involved in that many firefights, you're probably going to get shot before you run out of ammo.
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