Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Firearms and Other Weapons Forum > Firearms General Discussion > Shotgun Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Shotgun Forum Mossberg, Winchester, Remington, Benelli....

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2010, 12:27 PM
crb2012 crb2012 is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 477
Thanks: 86
Thanked 426 Times in 195 Posts
Default Pump Vs. Autoloader



Advertise Here

Can anyone tell me the pro's and con's of the two breeds? I have a Mossy 500 but was considering an auto-loader also.
Old 10-27-2010, 12:34 PM
paleryder paleryder is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 122
Thanks: 140
Thanked 145 Times in 50 Posts
Default autoloader has smaller recoil

some of the gasses are redircected to working the action.While you get full strength kick from a pump
Old 10-27-2010, 12:39 PM
Lakota's Avatar
Lakota Lakota is offline
+
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RMNP
Posts: 1,024
Thanks: 2,582
Thanked 2,830 Times in 915 Posts
Default

Auto
-Less recoil
-Faster rate of fire
-More accurate follow up shots

Pump
-Simple
-Reliable
-Durable
-Not picky about ammo
Old 10-27-2010, 01:49 PM
corndogggy's Avatar
corndogggy corndogggy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,376
Thanks: 228
Thanked 4,628 Times in 2,532 Posts
Default

auto
- no chance of short stroking in a stressful situation like you can with a pump
- no rattly foregrip, Mossberg pumps are especially bad about this


pump
- cheap purchase price
Old 10-27-2010, 06:48 PM
sailinghudson25's Avatar
sailinghudson25 sailinghudson25 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 4,885
Thanks: 645
Thanked 2,805 Times in 1,753 Posts
Default

I mainly have semi-auto shotguns. they are 100% reliable, just as much as pump guns are.

Two down sides. A huge one, what if you need the gun in a hurry and the chamber is empty? Pull the trigger and nothing happens? Cycling the bolt is 1000% slower than a pump gun. Especially in novice hands. In many defense situations with a shotgun, only one round was needed. The second issue is the speed of reloading.

I think the pumps are better overal just for that one fact.

For shooting sports semi-autos are nice for a fast repeat shot on a bird or shooting 100 rounds at the trap range. Also, semi-auto guns weigh noticeably more. This can be burdensome in the field. Tired arms do not swing a gun well for a moving bird. The more time the gun is slinged, the more things you can miss.

For a overall gun, the pump is great. For dedicated portions of a shooting hobby, a semi-auto is great.

I can shoot a pump gun just fine left handed with a right handed gun. The semi-autos like to shoot a bit of gas and fouling in your eyes.
Old 10-27-2010, 11:03 PM
Duggo's Avatar
Duggo Duggo is offline
Me before coffee...
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Willamette Valley
Posts: 346
Thanks: 281
Thanked 253 Times in 125 Posts
Default

If you are talking about hunting, try out both and go with what feels good and swings nice for you.

For tactical use pumps have shortcomings that rules them out for me. 1. If you get shot in the arm a semi auto can still be brought to bear. 2. Same goes for If you have to pull someone to safety. 3. If you are taking cover behind a log or you are lying in the street using a curb for cover, you will expose more of yourself vertically when you cycle a pump.
Old 10-28-2010, 01:45 AM
Pawiscoming's Avatar
Pawiscoming Pawiscoming is offline
Born to prep
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: nc IN.
Posts: 2,384
Thanks: 619
Thanked 2,448 Times in 1,037 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota View Post
Auto
-Less recoil
-Faster rate of fire
-More accurate follow up shots

Pump
-Simple
-Reliable
-Durable
-Not picky about ammo
Auto
-Less recoil


Pump
-Simple
-Reliable
-Durable
-Not picky about ammo
-Faster rate of fire
-More accurate follow up shots
-Can reload after each shot
-Light weight
Old 10-28-2010, 02:36 AM
spcinc's Avatar
spcinc spcinc is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 299
Thanks: 158
Thanked 332 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Shoot both while prone and you'll see another advantage of a semi.
Old 10-28-2010, 04:09 AM
Misanthropy's Avatar
Misanthropy Misanthropy is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Driftless Wisconsin
Posts: 798
Thanks: 1,006
Thanked 1,093 Times in 376 Posts
Default

I would say the biggest separation of the 2 is the cost... I can buy 5-6 good pump shotguns for the price of a autoloader... Gah I want that Benelli M4 so bad... the pricetag always makes me stop.
The Following User Says Thank You to Misanthropy For This Useful Post:
Old 10-28-2010, 08:00 AM
TazBad's Avatar
TazBad TazBad is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I haven't had the pleasure of shooting an autoloader yet, so I guess that means pump 4me -
Old 10-28-2010, 03:28 PM
OKC03cobra's Avatar
OKC03cobra OKC03cobra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 43
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
Auto
-Less recoil


Pump
-Simple
-Reliable
-Durable
-Not picky about ammo
-Faster rate of fire
-More accurate follow up shots
-Can reload after each shot
-Light weight
Pump has a faster rate of fire? Obviously you have not fired the Mossberg 930 SPX.
Old 10-28-2010, 03:37 PM
matt18920's Avatar
matt18920 matt18920 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: virginia
Posts: 5,429
Thanks: 1,588
Thanked 4,637 Times in 2,471 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
Auto
-Less recoil
faster cycling
arguably simpler
not to picky bout ammo (at least the shotgun i own isn't, beretta urika)
about the same weight as a pump, sometimes less but that depends on capacity
Pump
-Simple
-Reliable
-Durable
-Not picky about ammo
-More accurate follow up shots
-Can reload after each shot
-Light weight
Ill edit it to seem more fair and balanced
Old 10-28-2010, 04:37 PM
corndogggy's Avatar
corndogggy corndogggy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,376
Thanks: 228
Thanked 4,628 Times in 2,532 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
Two down sides. A huge one, what if you need the gun in a hurry and the chamber is empty? Pull the trigger and nothing happens? Cycling the bolt is 1000% slower than a pump gun. Especially in novice hands. In many defense situations with a shotgun, only one round was needed.
I don't agree with this. Maybe some semi-autos suck, but if you're used to it at all, it's just as quick or quicker than a pump. It's true about novices though. If you're not used to it, most people will lower the gun to their waist, reconfigure the grip, pull the slide back, visually look inside to make sure there's a shell, let go, then pull the weapon back up. If you're used to it at all, that's a bunch of wasted movement, and you can get one in the chamber very quickly. But then again, my daughter is a novice at pumps and she has a very hard time figuring out how to get a round into the chamber. Novices are going to be horribly slow in either situation, and veterans are going to be very fast in either situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
The second issue is the speed of reloading.
How is that a problem with semi-autos? All you have to do is drop one in the chamber and hit a button, which is faster than a pump, and the tube loads exactly like a pump.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
For shooting sports semi-autos are nice for a fast repeat shot on a bird or shooting 100 rounds at the trap range.
They kinda suck at the trap range, you tick people off from ejecting shells everywhere and you have to bend down and pick them up. An over/under with light loads is best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
Also, semi-auto guns weigh noticeably more. This can be burdensome in the field. Tired arms do not swing a gun well for a moving bird. The more time the gun is slinged, the more things you can miss.
Depends on which gun you get. My 9 shot FN Herstal is heavy at 8.2 pounds. But, a gun with that same receiver is made in a light field version (Winchester Super X2) that is only 6.5 pounds. An 18" Remington 870 express pump weighs 7.2, longer barrels weigh even more.
Old 10-28-2010, 04:54 PM
Pawiscoming's Avatar
Pawiscoming Pawiscoming is offline
Born to prep
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: nc IN.
Posts: 2,384
Thanks: 619
Thanked 2,448 Times in 1,037 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OKC03cobra View Post
Pump has a faster rate of fire? Obviously you have not fired the Mossberg 930 SPX.
Yes a pump can be fired faster then an auto. It is humanly imposable to exceed the speed that a pump shotgun’s action can be operated. Whereas an auto the user is limited by the speed that the shotgun’s action is capable of operating its self. Speed is useless unless the target is being hit. The act of pushing the slide of a pump shotgun forward helps the shooter bring the muzzle down and back on target. There some that will argue that auto rule clay shooting and on that alone qualifies as the best shotgun to have when the SHTF. I do not agree with unless you are expecting to be attacked buy a flock of MZS. But what if you are hunting an auto will allow you to fire a lot of rounds fast at birds flying over head. When hunting in the PAW you will not be walking around blasting away at pray, by doing so you will only make yourself pray.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matt18920 View Post
Ill edit it to seem more fair and balanced
That is a very liberal and progressive approach to the problem.
Old 10-28-2010, 05:03 PM
corndogggy's Avatar
corndogggy corndogggy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,376
Thanks: 228
Thanked 4,628 Times in 2,532 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
Yes a pump can be fired faster then an auto.

...an auto the user is limited by the speed that the shotgun’s action is capable of operating its self.
You actually think this is a realistic issue? It's crazy fast nowadays. Tell me a pump can be shot faster than this. 12 shots in 1.4 seconds. Assuming you didn't have to reload, that's a rate if about 500 rounds per minute, the same as a Browning BAR machine gun. Good luck with that on a pump.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
The act of pushing the slide of a pump shotgun forward helps the shooter bring the muzzle down and back on target.
Except a semi-auto doesn't have that muzzle rise problem in the first place.
The Following User Says Thank You to corndogggy For This Useful Post:
Old 10-28-2010, 05:40 PM
Lakota's Avatar
Lakota Lakota is offline
+
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RMNP
Posts: 1,024
Thanks: 2,582
Thanked 2,830 Times in 915 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
Speed is useless unless the target is being hit.
Clearly this is true. Which makes it pointless to argue which mag can be dumped faster. Bump firing an auto and slam firing a pump are both ill advised. The speed that matters is getting back on target and pulling the trigger. 9 times out of 10 that has more to do with the shooter than the shotgun.
Old 10-28-2010, 06:21 PM
trixie trixie is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,011
Thanks: 2,692
Thanked 7,285 Times in 3,149 Posts
Default

pump is a need

semi is a want
Old 10-28-2010, 06:57 PM
Pawiscoming's Avatar
Pawiscoming Pawiscoming is offline
Born to prep
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: nc IN.
Posts: 2,384
Thanks: 619
Thanked 2,448 Times in 1,037 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakota View Post
Clearly this is true. Which makes it pointless to argue which mag can be dumped faster. Bump firing an auto and slam firing a pump are both ill advised. The speed that matters is getting back on target and pulling the trigger. 9 times out of 10 that has more to do with the shooter than the shotgun.
It is good that you get it.

A lot of people think that when faced with a raging horde all they have to do is blast away and all will be good. What they do not understand is that speed is relevant to accuracy. Speed is nothing more then a waste of ammo if the first round hitís a target and the other two are over the hordeís heads.

I have pumps and autos both and I find that I am able to get into a better rhythm with a pump then I am with an auto. Aim, fire, push slide forward and repeat helps to modulate my rate of fire forcing me to concentrate on my aim. When I shoot my autos all I have to do is pull the trigger wile squealing like a school girl and my aim suffers.

I we ever settle this debate the one will be tube verses detachable box magazine.
Old 10-28-2010, 07:07 PM
Bladed's Avatar
Bladed Bladed is offline
Rabid Toad Killer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,460
Thanks: 364
Thanked 3,040 Times in 1,435 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
It is good that you get it.

A lot of people think that when faced with a raging horde all they have to do is blast away and all will be good. What they do not understand is that speed is relevant to accuracy. Speed is nothing more then a waste of ammo if the first round hitís a target and the other two are over the hordeís heads.

I have pumps and autos both and I find that I am able to get into a better rhythm with a pump then I am with an auto. Aim, fire, push slide forward and repeat helps to modulate my rate of fire forcing me to concentrate on my aim. When I shoot my autos all I have to do is pull the trigger wile squealing like a school girl and my aim suffers.

I we ever settle this debate the one will be tube verses detachable box magazine.
Well then it's settled, The Saiga -12 is a semi auto AK-47 action, detachable box magazine fed(or drum) 12 ga shotgun, extremely reliable simple tough as nails, with many available options. If you add the last round bolt hold open to it then reloading is even faster.

and @ around $400 new the price is comparable to a pump.............
The Following User Says Thank You to Bladed For This Useful Post:
Old 10-28-2010, 09:11 PM
corndogggy's Avatar
corndogggy corndogggy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,376
Thanks: 228
Thanked 4,628 Times in 2,532 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawiscoming View Post
When I shoot my autos all I have to do is pull the trigger wile squealing like a school girl and my aim suffers.
Why would you feel the need to squeal like a school girl when shooting a semi-auto? My teenage daughter shoots my FN Herstal 12 gauge and can handle it just fine. Doesn't squeal either.
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
trash/water pump, pump 5ilverado DIY - Do It Yourself 2 08-21-2010 02:49 PM
Well pump??? jandlms Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 12 02-06-2010 09:14 AM
So I'm getting a 410 pump... mr_nice_guy228 Shotgun Forum 21 01-03-2010 11:03 PM
Are your gas pump right? eeyore General Discussion 5 08-25-2008 10:40 AM
Mossberg 930 autoloader TudorMD1985 Firearms General Discussion 3 12-22-2007 11:01 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net