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Old 10-21-2010, 10:16 AM
croscoe croscoe is offline
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Default Arsenal SGL21 vs. WASR



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Good day all. I'm about to buy my first long gun and have been wanting the Arsenal SGL21 for a while... Everyone knows the fit and finish is better on the SGL compared to the WASR, but when it comes down to shooting, how much better is the SGL than the WASR? If the SGL is considerably more accurate than the WASR, I'll go that route, but if they're comparable, saving some cash with the WASR doesn't seem like a bad idea. Any and all input is welcomed.

PS - I'm aware of the WASR sometimes having canted sight posts and wobbly mags. Thanks.
Old 10-21-2010, 10:29 AM
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I own a WASR, never fired an Arsenal. From what I understand the Arsenal will be closer to mil spec, bayo lug, muzzle device, thicker receiver, better furniture.

Then again it's twice the price.
Old 10-21-2010, 01:33 PM
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I honestly don't think that Arsenal weapons are worth the price they charge. Sure they are great guns, I don't deny that. But if I can buy a Saiga that was made in Russia and convert it myself for $500, then why would I pay several hundred dollars more to have a company do the same thing.
My advice is to buy a Saiga and convert it yourself.
Old 10-21-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_guy View Post
I honestly don't think that Arsenal weapons are worth the price they charge. Sure they are great guns, I don't deny that. But if I can buy a Saiga that was made in Russia and convert it myself for $500, then why would I pay several hundred dollars more to have a company do the same thing.
My advice is to buy a Saiga and convert it yourself.
I see your point and I agree. To be clear though that's what an Arsenal is, a professionally converted Saiga.
Old 10-21-2010, 04:11 PM
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I see your point and I agree. To be clear though that's what an Arsenal is, a professionally converted Saiga.
I know that, and I should have mentioned that. Thank you.
Old 10-21-2010, 04:51 PM
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I bought an Arsenal AK and never looked back. I love it. It's still true that you get what you pay for. The accuracy is good for an AK, and the whole conversion is top notch. You don't have to worry about things not working or not being new. All the part # match up, everything is brand new (no used parts), and it'll shoot any ammo I've been able to feed it. Can't say I have personal experience with WASR, though I've handled them a bit, and they may very well be just fine to trust your life to in an emergency. Side by side comparison though, for me, there is no competition. Arsenal is a whole step above. For me, I wanted top quality and performance for a reasonable price (there are more expensive options than Arsenal out there. Krebs, for example), which I feel is what I got from my Arsenal AK. Ymmv. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croscoe View Post
Good day all. I'm about to buy my first long gun and have been wanting the Arsenal SGL21 for a while... Everyone knows the fit and finish is better on the SGL compared to the WASR, but when it comes down to shooting, how much better is the SGL than the WASR? If the SGL is considerably more accurate than the WASR, I'll go that route, but if they're comparable, saving some cash with the WASR doesn't seem like a bad idea. Any and all input is welcomed.

PS - I'm aware of the WASR sometimes having canted sight posts and wobbly mags. Thanks.
Well fit and finish will be better with the Arsenal but if you're serious about saving some cash an average WASR should be just as accurate and reliable as an average Arsenal. I've had my 10/63 for four years and it just keeps running.
Old 10-21-2010, 07:57 PM
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IF the price is right on the WASR, get one. If it doesn't shoot good, sell it, and then get an Arsenal or something else.

Your first long gun should be a 22lr. They pay for themsevles in no with ammo costs.

7.62x39 is not bad, but it's not a good choice for some terrains.
Old 10-21-2010, 08:11 PM
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Ask anyone who owns a wasr and they'll tell you how great they are. You won't save very much money buying the wasr, K-VAR had SGL's listed for $699. All this chump talk on the web has driven wasr prices up a little...last gunshow here they were over $400 and a pawn shop in town has a used one for $695 that has so much mag wobble, it's bound to fail and the front sight is so canted, someone had to beat the sight barrel over so far it's almost coming out of the tower, which is probably why it's for sale. If you bite the bullet and get the SGL, you'll know what you're getting. Is it better to spend $400 on a turd, or $700 on a quality rifle? If you blow the money on the wasr, don't expect to get anything for it when you realize what you've done. Sorry if there's no sugar on my post, Just being straight with you.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
Ask anyone who owns a wasr and they'll tell you how great they are... Is it better to spend $400 on a turd, or $700 on a quality rifle? If you blow the money on the wasr, don't expect to get anything for it when you realize what you've done. Sorry if there's no sugar on my post, Just being straight with you.
I agree with sailinghudson25, if you want to save money try a WASR and if you don't like it odds are you'll get close to the $400 it cost and can move on to something else. "don't expect to get anything for it" is just not true.

Years ago I spent $300 for my WASR, expecting a turd of an AK but got a pleasant surprise. If I'm spending $700 today it's gonna be for an AR or other rifle not an AK. Don't get me wrong, I love AKs but "quality" just doesn't go along with my perception of the average AK - it's more about "it's cheap and works".

I think I am being straight here.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
Ask anyone who owns a wasr and they'll tell you how great they are. You won't save very much money buying the wasr, K-VAR had SGL's listed for $699. All this chump talk on the web has driven wasr prices up a little...last gunshow here they were over $400 and a pawn shop in town has a used one for $695 that has so much mag wobble, it's bound to fail and the front sight is so canted, someone had to beat the sight barrel over so far it's almost coming out of the tower, which is probably why it's for sale. If you bite the bullet and get the SGL, you'll know what you're getting. Is it better to spend $400 on a turd, or $700 on a quality rifle? If you blow the money on the wasr, don't expect to get anything for it when you realize what you've done. Sorry if there's no sugar on my post, Just being straight with you.
I disagree
Old 10-21-2010, 09:17 PM
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Ive had WASR's and now I own an SGL-21(Nato length). The arsenal is noticably heavier and doesnt seem as fast in hand as the warsaw length WASR. The recoil is reduced to a minimum with the muzzle break on the SGL, and quick follow up shots are a snap. Im hoping to do some side by side accuracy testing soon, I'll post my results. You can say an SGL isnt worth $600 but that doesnt make a WASR worth $450. Im happy with my Arsenal but you can't go wrong with a good WASR and a Tapco FCG.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
I agree with sailinghudson25, if you want to save money try a WASR and if you don't like it odds are you'll get close to the $400 it cost and can move on to something else. "don't expect to get anything for it" is just not true.

Years ago I spent $300 for my WASR, expecting a turd of an AK but got a pleasant surprise. If I'm spending $700 today it's gonna be for an AR or other rifle not an AK. Don't get me wrong, I love AKs but "quality" just doesn't go along with my perception of the average AK - it's more about "it's cheap and works".

I think I am being straight here.
Agreed.

I spent $330 on my WASR. It ain't pretty but it works. I'm happy with it.

There's no way I'd spend over $600 on an AK.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:39 PM
Urbansurvival Urbansurvival is offline
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I love AK's I put about 6500 rounds through my Romanian and it has never failed NOT once. And it has only seen steel case wolf ammo. At 100 yards I hit within a 4" MOA slow firing. That is enough proof for me. Either one I think would suit you. Just depends if you want to spend the money on a nicer looking gun. The Saiga I get a better MOA but have 1/2 the rounds through it!
Old 10-21-2010, 09:53 PM
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Please help me understand something??
I have a quality AK-47 (7.62x39) that I bought in 1986. It accepts any AK-47 mag or drum. I also have a Saiga 12 and it accepts Saiga 12 mags & drums.

What I don't understand about AK-74 (5.45x39) : are any of them able to accept normal russian AK-74 mags without a bullet ramp fitted in place??

My understanding is that a Saiga in 5.45x39 is meant to take low cap Saiga mags. These conversion companies are taking these low cap versions and cutting the mag well larger to fit an AK-74 mag AND fitting a bullet ramp to help the russian army mag feed correctly.

I'm sure the Russians don't run around with a ramp to keep the mag feeding correctly?? Aren't there any real AK-74's for sale OR are thos all select-fire so impossible to get/import??

I've been shopping for an AK-74, but it is real frustrating. No local shops carry them : "No one wants a 5.45..........they all want 7.62". There were none at the last gun show. I'm afraid to buy on-line as I would like to hold it to feel the quality or lack there-of in person. The prices are all over the place - $400 to $800 to $1300.

I'm confused!!

Mark
Old 10-21-2010, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyrider86 View Post
I've been shopping for an AK-74, but it is real frustrating. No local shops carry them : "No one wants a 5.45..........they all want 7.62". There were none at the last gun show. I'm afraid to buy on-line as I would like to hold it to feel the quality or lack there-of in person. The prices are all over the place - $400 to $800 to $1300.

I'm confused!!

Mark
www.k-var.com
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:15 PM
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@ Harleyrider86. I have Arsenal's SGL 31 which is their AK 74. It takes regular circle 10 mags np. I was actually surprised by how easy it was to find mags, ammo, and accessories online. I paid around $800 for mine a little over a year ago, so I don't know what prices are right now. Check at your local gun store and see if they can order one for you, if you're interested, rather than buying online if you are uncomfortable with purchasing through the internet.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:17 PM
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Or, as noted by Hud556, just order from K-var (Arsenal) and have them ship it to your local FFL.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:20 PM
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All i can tell you is what my WASR is like. Mine is a 1975 and it shoots great for a assuilt rifle. I lay out 6 inch groups at 100 yards with it open sights. That is center mass kill shots.

My SKS gets 8 inch groups from 100 yards. Again that is center mass hits and target taken.

I get 2 inch groups with my AR15 from 100 yard.
Old 10-21-2010, 10:32 PM
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It seems that most have over looked one of the best value and most accurate AK's currently on the market. If you can find one get a Kreb's custom AK. They are known for accuracy as they are built as one off's. No production line. Each rifle is a project and tuned until it gets the best it can get.

HH54r
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