Remington 700. A Flawed Design?

[robbiec]

Thanks Lobotomi. I stand corrected on the "recall" aspect. Still, the problem is with pre-1982 models.... This is from the remington website..

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...odel-40-X.aspx
If you own a Remington Model 700 or Model 40-X rifle:
Only those Model 700 or 40-X rifles made before March 1982 were manufactured with a bolt-lock mechanism. Model 700 or 40-X rifles made after March 1982 do not have a bolt-lock mechanism and may be loaded and unloaded with the safety in the “S” or “On Safe” position. Consequently, post-1982 Model 700 or 40-X rifles are not subject to this bolt-lock Safety Modification Program.


And here is an excellant counter-article about it.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...irearm+Blog%29

[53convert]

I can tell ya even my 721, with the new design and carb cleaner there has not been a problem.....but that being said even when I had the OLD trigger design there was no problem........but I do clean my well just in case,

[labotomi]

Originally Posted by robbiec

Thanks Lobotomi. I stand corrected on the "recall" aspect. Still, the problem is with pre-1982 models.... This is from the remington website..

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-...odel-40-X.aspx
If you own a Remington Model 700 or Model 40-X rifle:
Only those Model 700 or 40-X rifles made before March 1982 were manufactured with a bolt-lock mechanism. Model 700 or 40-X rifles made after March 1982 do not have a bolt-lock mechanism and may be loaded and unloaded with the safety in the “S” or “On Safe” position. Consequently, post-1982 Model 700 or 40-X rifles are not subject to this bolt-lock Safety Modification Program.


And here is an excellant counter-article about it.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...irearm+Blog%29

The trigger is still a problem, it's just that after they made this change the rifle could be unloaded without taking the safety off. Before it was necessary to place the safety in the "fire" position to unload the gun.

If I'm understanding this right, even after the removal of the "bolt lock" and guns manufactured without it could still fire unintentionally when other actions were taken such as cycling the bolt except if the safety is on.

[jleeny718]

I have researched this quite a bit before CNBCs show last night . REM 700 is one of my favorites . The trigger has the WALKER FIRE CONTROL mechanism . I have adjusted several of these triggers , but to safe sear engagement levels . This means the REM 700 trigger shouldn't go below 2-3 pounds . You can minimize engagement to provide a lighter pull weight , but it is not safe . I have not as yet encountered any problem in the triggers I have adjusted . A friend who adjusted his stock trigger to 8 ounces
( measured with my trigger pull guage) has had AD when taking the safety off . So , even with the trigger adjusted properly there remains a slight chance of AD . Usually from dirt, rust , dried lube , rough handling . This is due to a floating connector . ALL IS NOT LOST . No aftermarket trigger uses the WALKER design . Get an aftermarket trigger . JEWELL , TIMNEY , CANJAR . Then you will be safe , and don't point at anything you don't intend to shoot!

[Varmit]

I bought a new Remington 700 ADL somewhere in that 2007 time-frame
mentioned in an earlier post. Anyone know if there is a way to identify
whether or not the rifle has the Walker trigger or the X-Mark Pro trigger?

(Not completely clueless around firearms, but not a gun-smith by any stretch.)

[jleeny718]

The WALKER has 3 adjustment screws which are covered by sealant . The X MARK PRO has only one adjustment for pull weight , although it has false cap head you can put an allen key into , but will not turn . You will only know for sure by taking it out of the stock . Be prepared to torque the stock correctly if you do take the action out .

[VINCENT]

honestly i'm very surprized they havent done the recall. while auto makers are hard pressed to admit a flaw, and anounce a recall, i think they would at this point having recieved so much negitive press. i know that they offer a replacement set up but they charge 20 dollars for it and you have to send your rifle to them.

[SeekHer]

The Firearm Blog has this to say: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...on-under-fire/ plus informs us

that Remington launches website to address CNBC allegations http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...c-allegations/

On top of that from The Tactical Wire comes Bushmaster Issues Product Safety Notice for ACR Rifles http://www.thetacticalwire.com/story/226016

[MikeK]

I've had several 700s through the years and never had a problem with them. I did have that problem with XP-100 pistols several times over the years though. There's nothing quite like holding a pistol chambered for .308 in one hand and having to discharge it with the other by releasing the safety.

[Burtenshaw]

Originally Posted by Varmit

I bought a new Remington 700 ADL somewhere in that 2007 time-frame
mentioned in an earlier post. Anyone know if there is a way to identify
whether or not the rifle has the Walker trigger or the X-Mark Pro trigger?

(Not completely clueless around firearms, but not a gun-smith by any stretch.)

"To determine if your Remington 700 has the Walker firing mechanism or the X-Mark Pro, look at the trigger itself. If the trigger has grooves, it is a Walker. If it is smooth, it is an X-Mark Pro."

[Highlander]

Originally Posted by Burtenshaw

"To determine if your Remington 700 has the Walker firing mechanism or the X-Mark Pro, look at the trigger itself. If the trigger has grooves, it is a Walker. If it is smooth, it is an X-Mark Pro."

Damn. Mine has a walker. Bought it in 2009 too.

[vicdotcom]

Originally Posted by labotomi

Seems the older (pre-2007) models could have this problem, but the new 700s have a redesigned trigger.

Interestingly, the 770 rifles have the same trigger that was in the problem rifles.



I had a rifle go off while I was unloading it when I was around 13 (.270 BDL). I thought that I had done something wrong, but it's possible that this had something to do with it

Model 7's should have it also then right? Same trigger and all. But really, unloading the rifle and turning the saftey off, barrel is pointed away from people.

[burdock41]

First, I wanted to say that right now I have 6 Remington 700’s in my stock…but have owned many others in my lifetime. I have never had an issue with any 700’s like CNBC states. I did not watch the CNBC story, because I knew it was going to be tainted.

I have a seen many other firearms “go off” by mistake. After looking at the firearms and some questions, it all comes back to one or more mistakes the owner or user of the firearm made.

Late if my life, I swear that over 50 % of gun owners really should not own a firearm…I’m joking about the percentage…but it seems like it.

There are too many gun owners that do not do any proper firearm maintenance…spraying Gun Scrubber once every blue moon does not work. How about gun safety…does that exist anymore? I saw on the Rem site the reporter even had is finger in the trigger…probably with the safety off. I have run into enough gun haters in my life to know that they are completely ignorant about firearms. But even a number of gun owners do not follow gun safety. Then there is a large amount of people that believe everything about firearms is true in movies. How about those kitchen gunsmiths, that try to alter something in their firearm...don't believe alot of gunsmith work from the internet.

A number of lawsuits against gun manufactures are really caused from inexperienced handloaders. Double loading does not mean you are going to get more fps out of the round

My Rant is over for the night

[labotomi]

Originally Posted by burdock41

First, I wanted to say that right now I have 6 Remington 700’s in my stock…but have owned many others in my lifetime. I have never had an issue with any 700’s like CNBC states. I did not watch the CNBC story, because I knew it was going to be tainted.

I have a seen many other firearms “go off” by mistake. After looking at the firearms and some questions, it all comes back to one or more mistakes the owner or user of the firearm made.

Late if my life, I swear that over 50 % of gun owners really should not own a firearm…I’m joking about the percentage…but it seems like it.

There are too many gun owners that do not do any proper firearm maintenance…spraying Gun Scrubber once every blue moon does not work. How about gun safety…does that exist anymore? I saw on the Rem site the reporter even had is finger in the trigger…probably with the safety off. I have run into enough gun haters in my life to know that they are completely ignorant about firearms. But even a number of gun owners do not follow gun safety. Then there is a large amount of people that believe everything about firearms is true in movies. How about those kitchen gunsmiths, that try to alter something in their firearm...don't believe alot of gunsmith work from the internet.

A number of lawsuits against gun manufactures are really caused from inexperienced handloaders. Double loading does not mean you are going to get more fps out of the round

My Rant is over for the night

While I'll agree that proper gun safety should be observed at all times and if it were there would never be any fatal accidents.

But, to say there isn't a problem is disingenuous. Why would a company consider a recall for a problem brought to their attention before the gun was manufactured by the designer if there weren't a problem?

[hanklet0]

Not on topic with the 700, but I have a winchester m52 target rifle that is damn dangerous. The bolt goes down in two stages. If you chamber a round and the bolt only goes down 90% of the way then put on the safty, pull the trigger, doesn't fire because u forgot to remove safety, then flip safety forward.....bolt droops remaining 10% and fires. I shot a hole in my garage first time I found out and my buddy shot his foot 10 minutes after I warned him about it.

I have a Remington 700 senduro in 7mm mag. No problems with it, it has a timney trigger. I have never heard of this before. If it was a huge deal I wouldn't think the Militate and LEO would use them.

[XR750]

Before I was born my Dad & Mom were big time shooters. My Dad & Mom both told me about a Remington rifle (I don't remember the model # of the rifle) that would discharge with the safety on.
My Dad or Mom would never own another Remington rifle.
XR750

[XR750]

Originally Posted by hanklet0

I have a Remington 700 senduro in 7mm mag. No problems with it, it has a timney trigger. I have never heard of this before. If it was a huge deal I wouldn't think the Militate and LEO would use them.

The tatical rifles of the Military and Leo have been heavly worked, tigger barrel action bedding stocks.
So they have no bearing on a factory gun.
XR750

[53convert]

Originally Posted by burdock41

First, I wanted to say that right now I have 6 Remington 700’s in my stock…but have owned many others in my lifetime. I have never had an issue with any 700’s like CNBC states. I did not watch the CNBC story, because I knew it was going to be tainted.

I have a seen many other firearms “go off” by mistake. After looking at the firearms and some questions, it all comes back to one or more mistakes the owner or user of the firearm made.

Late if my life, I swear that over 50 % of gun owners really should not own a firearm…I’m joking about the percentage…but it seems like it.

There are too many gun owners that do not do any proper firearm maintenance…spraying Gun Scrubber once every blue moon does not work. How about gun safety…does that exist anymore? I saw on the Rem site the reporter even had is finger in the trigger…probably with the safety off. I have run into enough gun haters in my life to know that they are completely ignorant about firearms. But even a number of gun owners do not follow gun safety. Then there is a large amount of people that believe everything about firearms is true in movies. How about those kitchen gunsmiths, that try to alter something in their firearm...don't believe alot of gunsmith work from the internet.

A number of lawsuits against gun manufactures are really caused from inexperienced handloaders. Double loading does not mean you are going to get more fps out of the round

My Rant is over for the night

Yeah but...........it was a good rant...........go right ahead

[dcliffhanger]

You people mean you really believe anything reported about a firearm on MSNBC?

Why not tune in to Pravda and get their take on Remington's 60 year conpiracy against the American people.

Tweaking a trigger to discharge on closing the bolt is usually a 10 second operation. Most of the time it can be accomplished with a cardboard shim.

Yes, reporters will do these things to get a story aired on their left wing antigun affiliate.

[labotomi]

Originally Posted by dcliffhanger

You people mean you really believe anything reported about a firearm on MSNBC?

Why not tune in to Pravda and get their take on Remington's 60 year conpiracy against the American people.

Tweaking a trigger to discharge on closing the bolt is usually a 10 second operation. Most of the time it can be accomplished with a cardboard shim.

Yes, reporters will do these things to get a story aired on their left wing antigun affiliate.

Considering it's happened to me. At least I think it did, but at the time I thought I had done something wrong (I was about 13 and that's a long time ago). Plus I called my family to express my concerns and apparently the same rifle has had an unintentional discharge on 2 more occasions by 2 different people who also just assumed they had made a mistake. I would say it is indeed a problem.

My mother had it fire into the driveway spraying rocks all over the house and a friend had it happen after sighting in the scope prior to hunting season.

This gun has never had any tweaking done to the trigger. Also keep in mind that we have numerous rifles and this is the only one that has ever had an inadvertent discharge.

I'll be ordering a replacement trigger as I don't feel comfortable with having a rifle with this possibility even if proper gun safety is observed.

It is called a “trigger connector,” and it is an integral part of the firing mechanism patented by Remington engineer Merle “Mike” Walker in 1950. The so-called “Walker trigger” was a breakthrough in firearm design, allowing the smooth, crisp action favored by expert shooters at an affordable price.

Walker himself advocated a mechanism that would have held the trigger and connector in place while the safety was on, but internal company documents show Remington rejected Walker’s “trigger block” because of the cost—estimated in 1948 to be an additional 5 ½ cents per gun.

The designer of the trigger recognized a problem, but the company decided to save a few pennies and didn't implement the proposed changes.

Remington also has considered recalls multiple times, something they probably wouldn't do if there wasn't a problem.


Even if you don't like MSNBC, this report does seem to be based on facts that did not have to been manipulated to suit their interests.

I don't have a problem with your skepticism, but as far as safety goes with firearms or anything else for that manner, I'd rather spend a little more to ensure the safety of myself and everyone around me. There's no amount of money that's worth more than the safety of my family