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Old 09-27-2010, 04:52 PM
Cereal Cereal is offline
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Wink Getting around Building permits ?



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So I have gone from doing my 10'X25'X8' headroom underground shelter all on my own and being super secretive about it all, to probably hiring a crew to do the actual Poured footers,floor,walls and roof, this is due to it being impossible to do the Monolithic pours by myself. Also I have accepted the concrete delivery guys knowing as well. Mostly the structure will be above ground or just slightly under, then 2-3 weeks later I plan on covering the whole thing up with dirt....Kind of like this....
http://brainright.com/OurHouse/Construction/RootCellar/

My question her is how can I get around the building permit ?
It's not the money for the permit that concerns me, it's having a record of this thing being there that bothers me ( You know those smart Zombies ) .

First thing is I don't have a clue to what is even in a building permit ( I'm sure every state is differant ).

Does the permit have to show exactly where on your property the structure stands ( Let say your on 8 acres ) ?

Most of the time does a county inspector pay a visit to check it out during or after the build ?

When doing the permit do you have to specify what it is your building and the purpose, and possibly even show some type of blue print ?


I feel real good about being able to cover this structure up within a 2-3 weeks after the build so not even the builders will be able to tell where it is.

Wish I could afford to buy one of those 20X40 metal workshop/Garage to park over the site, then when it's done, just move the shop to another location. Of course then the workers and delivery trucks might get a little suspecious

What else could I call the structure to throw off everyone, besides root cellar?

I may even say I am having all this done for my out of state uncle that doesn't have the time to hire all this out. That way I can just say I have no idea why he wants it done that way, he just does . Maybe it will be for a recording studio, or wine cellar. It wouldn't even be my home or property at this point

Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:14 PM
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i don't suggest anyone break any law........ but, if a person was too, the should do it out of sight, and as fast as possible (most inspectors and city Nazis don't work holidays or weekends so a Monday holiday, with starting said build on a Friday after 5 or so) neighbours are the biggest issue there, and yes you typically have to show exact blue-prints/plans etc and several rounds of inspections-
Old 09-27-2010, 05:57 PM
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Neighbors are gonna be your biggest problem, they like to report people to feel like they did their "civic duty". Not to hi jack the thread but,.... Would this this be an issue in the back country? Like in the middle of 150 acres with a maze of school buses encased in concrete with a small cabin ontop for hidden access and many escape tunnels? Hypothetically of course
Old 09-27-2010, 06:12 PM
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40-50 years ago the government was actively encouraging people to build bomb shelters,now I think it is sad you have to hide one. I would call it a tornado-root cellar.
Old 09-27-2010, 06:38 PM
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Root cellar = Food...Probable site for confiscation of food during SHTF Martial Law.
Tornado/Storm shelter = Possible site for confiscation of survival goods during SHTF Martial Law.

Without knowing the county and state you are in I can't read any onlline version of your local zoning/permitting rules, so can't advise any ways around them. You might, depending on your desired uses for the structure, consider breaking it into smaller units that could fall under any permit requirements.

Four or six foot diameter steel or concrete culverts set on end and dug into the ground can provide the walls of a structure that can then have a floor poured and a roof built later. All is doable by a hardworking individual and wouldn't require massive equipment, or large concrete pours. It wouldn't be as elegant a solution as the root cellar you linked to, but still workable. Think outside the box...literally.
Old 09-27-2010, 07:17 PM
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Each area is different.

Around here our permits only list the outside dimensions [height, length, width] of each structure. You can go as deep in the ground as you wish without the permit saying anything about it.
Old 09-27-2010, 07:51 PM
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awesome photos and root cellar!!! Great job! Would love to be able to do something like that. Sigh.......
Old 09-27-2010, 08:43 PM
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nice set up there and good work on the place
Old 09-27-2010, 10:09 PM
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In my area a building permit means an inspection and all materials and proceeses being up to codes. In many areas you will not get a pour without a permit to show the concrete co.

Call the shelter a storm room. If anyone gets nosey you are worried about tornadoes.
Old 09-27-2010, 10:47 PM
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Not into digging your own hole with a dozer, then backing in a shipping container? Just a quick, low keyed idea, It's about the size your wanting.
Old 09-28-2010, 12:56 AM
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Yes to all the above. Building permit describes exactly what it is, and where it is and how it is built. The county inspector will probably be out to look at it.

If you used a licensed contractor, they would likely have pulled a permit if one were needed. Their license is too valuable to risk.

Call it a tornado shelter. Some areas will subsidize such things.
Old 09-28-2010, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampwood View Post
Not into digging your own hole with a dozer, then backing in a shipping container? Just a quick, low keyed idea, It's about the size your wanting.
Swampwood, no disrespect but.

The shipping container idea seriously needs to be put to rest on this board for underground shelters. Seems it's always just been an idea that has been kicked around for year when this subject comes up. Cost as much as a poured concrete room by the time you buy the container, By the time you pour a concrete footer for it, brace the container to handle the outside forces, paint it to handle the moisture. Then when that's all done your still going to have to pour concrete down the sides for strength. Much cheaper in the long run to do it right the first time and just do Block with solid grout , poured Concrete or even a buried pipe of 10'+ feet diameter.
I have YET to see pics of a shipping container buried successfully, and yes I have googled and Binged for the past 11 months on the subject.

Besides I wouldn't want to deal with a room that's only 8 ft wide . Believe it or not that extra 2 ft of width makes a huge differance .
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:11 AM
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awesome link with detail. I am just about to the point with money saved for a build similar to this. I was gonna try it without permitting the structure. Then permit the garage next to it after the burial. Anymore good links like that?
Old 09-30-2010, 12:08 PM
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This is one of the MANY reasons that I can't wait to get out of the city. We can't hardly build anything here without a permit and inspection. It's great that where we will be soon moving, out in the county, there are NO PERMITS required.
I'm not suggesting that anyone break any laws and get into trouble with "The Man," but as far I'm concerned...if it's YOUR private property that you own and pay taxes on...then it is nobody's business what you do on it as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of anyone else.
Old 09-30-2010, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmphoto View Post
This is one of the MANY reasons that I can't wait to get out of the city. We can't hardly build anything here without a permit and inspection. It's great that where we will be soon moving, out in the county, there are NO PERMITS required.
I'm not suggesting that anyone break any laws and get into trouble with "The Man," but as far I'm concerned...if it's YOUR private property that you own and pay taxes on...then it is nobody's business what you do on it as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of anyone else.
Don't kid yourself! Permits are required everywhere now. Being in the country just means they wait until you get it built and fine you for each day it stands till you tear it down.

I live 20 miles from the middle of podunk and the zoning inspectors drive the rural roads looking for projects without permits. There is no new building going on now and they have nothing to do but find work and justify their jobs. The revinue situation is such that the judges slap fines right and left and support their efforts.

There is even a regulation that sewage pumpers must report when they pump a septic tank. There is a health dept worker in your yard the next day inspecting your system. None pass. Nerw system is required, new permit is required. They can condemn your property as a health hazzard and force you off.

Things are rough all over.
Old 09-30-2010, 06:58 PM
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Each state has it's own ideas of what types of structures require no permit.

I know a few people who live in homes that had no permits.

And two individuals in the area know who are each looking for land so they can setup non-permit homes.
Old 09-30-2010, 08:09 PM
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The main purpose for the permit application is to queue the property up for a 'tax value' evaluation for the county asessor.

I'd apply for a permit to build a lean-to livestock shelter, and then make sure whatever I built looked somewhat like that to a casual observer. The asessor will spend 10 or 20 minutes 'asessing the value' of the improvement, your property tax statement will reflect that, and no one will be the wiser.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-hunter View Post
The main purpose for the permit application is to queue the property up for a 'tax value' evaluation for the county asessor.

I'd apply for a permit to build a lean-to livestock shelter, and then make sure whatever I built looked somewhat like that to a casual observer. The asessor will spend 10 or 20 minutes 'asessing the value' of the improvement, your property tax statement will reflect that, and no one will be the wiser.
Is there really a jurisdiction that would tax a livestock shelter? Like a lean-to?

Here so long as structures have no concrete foundation they need no permit and they are not taxed.
Old 09-30-2010, 08:46 PM
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In North Texas many municapalities will allow for a structure (storage shed) that does not exceed 120 square feet (10 x 12ft) without a permit. Might be the case where you are. You could then do your "shelter" and then later if more room was needed, just add another and connect it with a large concrete culvert. If you bust hump, this could probably be roughed out over Thanksgiving or Christmas Holidays and none would likely be the wiser. Many Tax Assesors and Code enforcement types I know will also use google earth to look at the area they preside over and upon noticing something they havent seen before or are just curious about will then pay you a visit and find out whats going on.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForestBeekeeper View Post
Is there really a jurisdiction that would tax a livestock shelter? Like a lean-to?

Here so long as structures have no concrete foundation they need no permit and they are not taxed.
If you built the lean-to on skids, you could claim it's portable and it wouldn't be taxed.

Any structure that is attached to the property (poles set in the ground) is a permenant structure and will be included on the asessment.

Remember, this is a guise to keep the officials from seeing the 'living quarters' being camoflaged by the shed.
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