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Old 04-23-2011, 07:21 PM
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Vectorwoman Vectorwoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectorwoman View Post
* Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Here is the verses surrounding it.

Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191
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Sahih International
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192
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Sahih International
And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193
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Sahih International
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
2:194
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Sahih International
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
2:195
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Sahih International
And spend in the way of Allah and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction [by refraining]. And do good; indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

My point by showing those verses out of context was not to prove that the Koran was full of hate, my point was that the extremest Islamist use the verses to justify Jihad and killing their enemies.

People take verses in the Bible out of context to but, I do not know of any Christians now days that go around stoning people because they feel that they are sinners.

Thank you Smudge for the link.
Old 04-23-2011, 07:32 PM
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The Muslims read the Koran they see as fit, same with Christians reading the Bible the way they want to. I don't throw the violent stuff in the Bible in the face of a "moderate" Christian telling them how violent they really are, they just don't know it themselves.

Most Muslims are not "Koran only".
Old 04-23-2011, 07:55 PM
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Muslims like Jewry are stuck in the Old Testament with an eye for an eye. This is their ideology,
that is the book, they have rigid physical requirements with no Spiritual means of accomplishment.
Jesus is nothing more than a figure to them. Similar to the ungodly in the west. That is why the humanists stick up for them and will eventually get their throats slit by their own pet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW
Sahih International
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
2:194,195
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:16 PM
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I'm so scared of the Jews on this forum! Halp! Halp!
Old 04-23-2011, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by speedofl33t View Post
I'm so scared of the Jews on this forum! Halp! Halp!
he he.. comparing the law requirement is what i was referring to.
When you catch frier chickens at night that is the exact sound they make
as you toss them in the shipping crates and slam the lid.
Seriously.. halp...haalp !
Old 04-23-2011, 09:40 PM
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A fervent return to Christ is the only way for the west to defeat Jihad.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FFM109 View Post
A fervent return to Christ is the only way for the west to defeat Jihad.
Yes, if we would quit playing ourselves as the whore buying favors
and mind our own business they would annihilate themselves.
Their system feeds off the western greed. They are non sustainable culturally
and politicly. Their book can not accommodate the necessary changes
that they must undergo. Yet to ignore the dog digging under the fence is suicidal.
Old 04-24-2011, 12:52 AM
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I agree with the poster I have read the Koran and have spent a lot of time in muslim countries, Iraq Afghanistan.
All i have to say is here is an example of tolerance,
We were on patrol and we ran into a huge portion of our Muhalla(neighborhood) that seem to be abandoned so we decided to check it out being new to the area. What we found was an entire block where the Christians used to live. We asked the neighbors what happened they just said that men came and killed everyone. We asked why no one tried to stop the mass murder of an entire area of Christians. He said it wasn't his business only us Americans care if Christians die.
Any Muslim who says they are Americanized or that the like Christians is lying. They are told to do so by the Koran. Even the ones who move here or are born here.
another example we had an interpreter who was born in America had his own veterinary clinic and a family of 6. While with us in Iraq he purposely leaked information that killed two of my friends. He was spying for his fellow Muslims so he could do his part to kill the infidel. He gave up his entire life to help kill Americans. That is the limit of their resolve.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:44 AM
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Except the Koran EXPLICITLY says that AS A WAY OF LIFE it is the DUTY of all muslims to lie in defense of Islam, to PRETEND to be friends with infidels to get close enpough to kill them,

and even has a special word for lying in defense of Islam.

There is no special word for "lying in defense of Christianity"
and nowhere does the Bible say to kill ALL unbelievers everywhere period

NOR does the Bible promise the favors of young boys in Heaven.
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachmonite View Post
Smudges point like his handle is not clarification or even qualification.
That would be to easy. His purpose is ambiguity and contention.
Grey water although not black, is still undrinkable.
Can't argue the facts so its straight on the personal attacks? Figures S.S.D.D tbh

My handle was earn't serving my country yours was plucked from a book, your opinion is noted and disregarded.
Old 04-24-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by speedofl33t View Post
The Muslims read the Koran they see as fit, same with Christians reading the Bible the way they want to. I don't throw the violent stuff in the Bible in the face of a "moderate" Christian telling them how violent they really are, they just don't know it themselves.

Most Muslims are not "Koran only".
But the Haditha are even worse so that doesn't really bode well.
Old 04-24-2011, 10:34 AM
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The reason I don't believe in a moderate Islam is the very fact there cannot be a moderate Christianity. WHY? It's simple if I'm told to renounce Christ or die then I have to die. If a muslim renounces Islam then they also become as an infidel and must be exterminated. But Islam goes just a little farther in that if by fatwa you are directed to kill all none muslims and you don't carry it out then you become apostate and an infidel. So a muslim will carry out the fatwa or die. Christianity simple states you are to have no fellowship with a non-believer and nowhere does it direct you to kill the non-believer whereas Islam does.

Yes these are extremes and yes there are moderate muslims and moderate Christians but when your head is on the chopping block (literally) there is a choice both religions must make. That is why I make the statement "There are no moderates in any religion" that is if they truly believe and take it to fruition.

To the Christian Islam is the religion of Anti-Christ.

Inscription found in the Dome of the Rock.
Quote:
In the name of God, the Merciful the Compassionate. There is no god but God. He is One. He has no associate. Unto Him belongeth sovereignty and unto Him belongeth praise. He quickeneth and He giveth death; and He has Power over all things. Muhammad is the servant of God and His Messenger.

Lo! God and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation. The blessing of God be on him and peace be on him, and may God have mercy. O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion

nor utter aught concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is)

better for you! God is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And God is sufficient as Defender. The Messiah will never scorn to be a

servant unto God, nor will the favored angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him. Oh God, bless Your Messenger and Your servant Jesus

son of Mary. Peace be on him the day he was born, and the day he dies, and the day he shall be raised alive! Such was Jesus, son of Mary, (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befitteth not (the Majesty of) God that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him!

When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. Lo! God is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path. God (Himself) is witness that there is no God save Him.

And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no God save Him, the Almighty, the Wise. Lo! religion with God (is) Islam. Those who (formerly) received the Book differed only after knowledge came unto them, through transgression among themselves. Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of God (will find that) lo! God is swift at reckoning!
People of the book can and will be granted mercy at the hands of the mulims provided they submit to dhimmitude.

For those who profess to be pagans and atheist or other religions you will find that you will not be given a choice in the matter.

Get to know your enemy as they are at the gates.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:39 AM
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Funny how people are so willing to blindly support a cause that they know almost nothing about. Sure, we have heard about Islam on t.v., and many different opinions about their belief system. But please, I am begging you, If you have not actually read the Koran, then you just don't get it, and shouldn't bother to post anything. I have read the Koran cover to cover twice. I have solid indisputable evidence as to their violent nature, and the assimilation of sharia law into every culture on the planet. There is no such thing as a "moderate" or "peace loving" Muslim. The word "Taquiyya" comes to mind. It is just not possible to claim that you are a Muslim, but don't believe in the laws and ideology that is put forth in this book of evil. If you have not read it yet, then you need to. Most of you would instantly stop supporting them. If you haven't read it, and you get on here and support them, you look like a fool as well. A Muslim that doesn't accept Jihad, or sharia law, is like a Christian saying: Ya, I'm a Christian, but I just don't believe in the Jesus part
Read the Old Testament cover to cover then tell me which religion has the whackiest and most sadistic outlook on life.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by talon115 View Post
Read the Old Testament cover to cover then tell me which religion has the whackiest and most sadistic outlook on life.
I'm reading it right now and I'm finding my former ideas that it was horrible are actually wrong.

People get punished in the Old Testament, they get killed and all sorts of things.

Are they nice people, are they up standing folks who are hewn down by God for no reason?

That is what we are told to think, and apparently what a lot of people think after reading it - still. But its not. They're always evil people. If it was really sadistic it would be stories about God hewing down little girls for picking flowers and striking people down for no reason.

There are things like "I will visit your transgressions on your children" which people find isue with, but what people are failing to realise is that everything that happens is identified with the will of God in some way in the OT. It is a fact, whether you believe in God or not, and is not changed whether you reject the Bible or not, that people learn the way to live from their parents - and this was even more true when children spent their entire childhood next to them, learning everything from them (not teachers, tv or friends). So people who have wicked mentalities raise their children in the same path... and they suffer the consequence if they don't change from how they were made. If you believe in God or not it is still true.. if you do evil things your children will suffer for it.
Old 04-28-2011, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ullyeus View Post
Any religious book...or really any piece of literature can be interpreted in hundreds or thousands of ways...no? I think this is obvious so i don't see how you can make any absolute declaration....just doesn't work that way.....
I think you have never read the quran or understand sharia. there profit is a murdering pedophile who distorts the will of GOD too enslave his followers.
XR750
Old 04-28-2011, 10:48 AM
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To all those who say I took words out of context from the Koran, yadda yadda, and that the Islam religion is really a religion of love and peace, here's a video, you need to watch.

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Old 04-28-2011, 11:05 AM
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Read the Old Testament cover to cover then tell me which religion has the whackiest and most sadistic outlook on life.
I would like to add that without knowledge of the goings on of ancient history at the time when God ordered people killed, He could seem to be a non loving and vengeful god.

He ordered some people killed (I am too tired right not to site the verses) but the reason for it is they were pagans who were (among many things), sacrificing babies and children live in fires to Moloch. If you do not know the details of this here is a link.

http://carm.org/christianity/miscell...hild-sacrifice
Old 04-28-2011, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Vectorwoman View Post
To all those who say I took words out of context from the Koran, yadda yadda, and that the Islam religion is really a religion of love and peace, here's a video, you need to watch.

YouTube - Imam Mahdi (The Twelfth Imam) and Antichrist - Signs of the Apocalypse
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad this, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that, yet no quotes nor subtitled speaches of him saying anything out of order....... The Mahdi sounds no worse than the supposed 2nd coming of your Christ tbh so whats your point?

You did use quotes out of context theres no denying that stop bleating about it and do some research, I don't know of anyone (here) whos said Islam is a religion of love and peace, over all its no better and no worse than Christianity. Its just not been around long enough to mature to the stage Christianity (for the most part) has.

Honestly this is worse than your Baal thread for bad info thinking its says something it doesn't.

For every finger you point, theres three pointing back at you
Old 04-28-2011, 11:23 AM
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I would like to add that without knowledge of the goings on of ancient history at the time when God ordered people killed, He could seem to be a non loving and vengeful god.

He ordered some people killed (I am too tired right not to site the verses) but the reason for it is they were pagans who were (among many things), sacrificing babies and children live in fires to Moloch. If you do not know the details of this here is a link.

http://carm.org/christianity/miscell...hild-sacrifice
Yet the Muslims who are out killing and maiming in Gods name are wrong?


Double standards ftw
Old 04-28-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Vectorwoman View Post
I would like to add that without knowledge of the goings on of ancient history at the time when God ordered people killed, He could seem to be a non loving and vengeful god.

He ordered some people killed (I am too tired right not to site the verses) but the reason for it is they were pagans who were (among many things), sacrificing babies and children live in fires to Moloch. If you do not know the details of this here is a link.

http://carm.org/christianity/miscell...hild-sacrifice
And your God commanded the Israelites to kill them all... man, woman and EVERY baby and child. Sounds like a huge "pagan" blood sacrifice to Him. If you want to find the truth, take off the religious blinders, forget the apolegetics, and just read what your holy book says.
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