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Old 09-05-2010, 03:27 PM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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Default Hot loads in Ruger LCP



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I own a Ruger LCP. I have read that some loads are too hot for the unsupported chamber of the LCP. But obviously, I want to carry the hottest load possible to increase the stopping power of the small .380 round as much as safely possible. The Elsie Pea forum has banned threads on .380 hot ammo in the LCP because the manual strictly states that it should not be used in the gun. It seems to me that if most of these posts said it was a bad idea, it would be more helpful to leave the threads on the site to discourage people from making the same mistake. The only kabooms I have read about have been from handloaded "super rounds." I am interested in which factory loads pack the biggest punch without resulting in a Kaboom. Does anyone have experience running hot loads in their LCP? torture tests? Kabooms?

Also interested in experience with KelTec p3at, as they have essentially the same barrel.

Last edited by Brian W; 09-06-2010 at 10:21 PM.. Reason: clarification
Old 09-05-2010, 03:35 PM
AKman AKman is offline
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As I understand there are no real +P rounds for the .380 that it's all just marketing hype. I own a bersa thunder and have found a lot of interesting comments about the .380.
Old 09-05-2010, 04:48 PM
youvegotmaelstrom youvegotmaelstrom is offline
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Buffalo Bore's website has data for two .380 +P rounds out of the Kel-tec (which I realize is not an LCP) -- items 27A (100gr LFN) and 27C (90gr JHP). Here is a link to the latter: http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=129

I'm not endorsing or encouraging you use these rounds, but apparently Buffalo Bore has enough confidence in the P3AT to post ballistic data for it.

Last edited by youvegotmaelstrom; 09-05-2010 at 07:45 PM.. Reason: fixed a typo
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:51 PM
dcliffhanger dcliffhanger is offline
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Accept the .380 and the LCP sized guns for what they are or go to a 9mm. It is and has always been a last ditch defense round for belly to belly put three in your face shooting.

I am just thankfull we have .380 caliber guns available in what used to be .25 acp packages. You could be stuck with a Baby Browning or itty-bitty Baretta.

As far as hot-rodding the .380, I agree with the banning of the discussion. These polymer frame guns are not something you want to "blow up". They are going to take parts of your hand with them, espically since the blow-out will be down and foreward where the feed ramp is cut.

When the Mfg says "Not for +P" they might just mean it. "But what if" don't cut it.
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:26 PM
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I don't shoot +p in anything of my 9's, 45, or my LCP I just don't see the need for it.
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:20 PM
ammit ammit is offline
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heres what you do to increase your stopping power for a round you might feel is inadequate. UPGRADE.
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:41 PM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammit View Post
heres what you do to increase your stopping power for a round you might feel is inadequate. UPGRADE.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother to post questions on this forum. I very rarely get 10% of replies to actually answer the question that I asked. I posted this same question on another forum (one devoted to firearms) and got nothing but helpful answers.

I never said the round was inadequate. I assume you mean upgrade the caliber. I bought the LCP because it is a pocket gun. There are no true pocket guns chambered in anything bigger than a .380. I looked at all options before I bought it and considered anything bigger than the LCP to be too heavy and/or large for pocket carry. So I want to carry the best, hardest hitting .380 round I can safely shoot in the LCP. If you have something worthwhile to add to the discussion, I would be glad to hear it. But please save your philosophies on what caliber people should carry to a post related to that topic.

Edit: I do own larger caliber pistols chambered in .40 cal. But find them too large for summer carry here in Alabama. We had over 60 straight days of +100 degree temps this summer, and only about 4 months out of the year are "long pants" type weather.

Last edited by Brian W; 09-06-2010 at 01:04 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:49 PM
Baddogg5 Baddogg5 is offline
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Hot load a 380?? Thats an oxy moron.You must really know what to do your just playing with us
Old 09-05-2010, 11:18 PM
dcliffhanger dcliffhanger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian W View Post
Sometimes I wonder why I bother to post questions on this forum. I very rarely get 10% of replies to actually answer the question that I asked. I posted this same question on another forum (one devoted to firearms) and got nothing but helpful answers.
OH, you are one of those guys! Same question on forty'leven sites.

So, why are you here and not where you got all the good advice?

You are either very insecure, have no reasoning power, are going to keep asking until you get the answer you want or you just like the attention obtained by asking for advice you already know you are going to ignore.
Old 09-05-2010, 11:19 PM
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grizzly 380 says +p but is a the high end of sammi spec and they say will run in your gun
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:28 PM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
OH, you are one of those guys! Same question on forty'leven sites.

So, why are you here and not where you got all the good advice?

You are either very insecure, have no reasoning power, are going to keep asking until you get the answer you want or you just like the attention obtained by asking for advice you already know you are going to ignore.
Thank you for validating my point. You must be one of those guys, always talking but never anything good to say.

I am fairly new to this site and thought I might get some answers from a different set of readers. I think that is pretty sound reasoning. I asked here first, got mostly pointless replies from people like you and decided to ask somewhere else (two sites total - in case your math sucks). I don't plan on ignoring any advice from someone who might actually know what they're talking about. The impression I got from the Elsie Pea forum was most people said that +P worked fine in almost all cases, and they only forbid it because the manual said not to (which I'm sure has to do mostly with people who reload to ridiculous pressures with used brass). If I could have read the threads on the forum, I would have some advice to follow.

Since we're pointing fingers here, why do you feel the need to read and respond to threads when you have absolutely nothing helpful to say? Just looking for attention?

Quote:
So, why are you here and not where you got all the good advice?
Good question. Right now I'm wondering the same thing

Last edited by Brian W; 09-06-2010 at 10:16 PM.. Reason: a little to harsh
Old 09-06-2010, 01:08 AM
SeekHer SeekHer is offline
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First, welcome to the forum.

The gun makers put "NO +P" for one reason--legality...If you happen to load really heavy and it blows up in your hand you can't sue then (successfully) and they can then turn around and say "told you so".

I'm with dcliffhanger in post #4 about this...All guns will take a certain amount of pressure over their supposed upper level--have to for engineering and safety sake, but the problems lies in how much more and isn't something I want to test fire handling the gun so I'll leave it to the pros to do...Will it blow up at 101 psi when it states 100 on the gun--doubtful, 105 psi again probably not but what about 106 psi?

I had some older .38 Spec that didn't have the term on the barrels, as they were built well before the +P term was coined and before everybody started suing everybody else for any slight...I shot heavier loads in them and they were fine although one did loosen up a little with a hot load...Then again, they were all steel.

I'd be more concerned about finding a really good expanding and penetrating bullet over trying to shoot a hotter load on a gun that definitely can't take it and says so...Go a little hot, sure no problem but that's it.
Old 09-06-2010, 11:40 AM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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I'd be more concerned about finding a really good expanding and penetrating bullet over trying to shoot a hotter load on a gun that definitely can't take it and says so...Go a little hot, sure no problem but that's it.
That is exactly what I am trying to find. With the lower weights and velocities of the .380, penetration is hard to achieve (especially with expanding rounds). My goal is to have both penetration and expansion. This is why I am interested in carrying the heaviest, fastest, deepest penetrating round the gun will shoot. That means finding the "hottest load." I think the majority seems to feel that Hornaday Critical Defense offers the best compromise between reliable expansion and penetration with short-barreled guns. But this is (I believe) a 90 gr bullet travelling at ~850 fps, offering ~11 in of penetration in gelatin out of a 2.7 in barrel. I don't know what the round is rated pressure wise, but I would think that there are harder-hitting rounds out there running at higher pressures that are safe to shoot in the LCP. At my LGS, they recommended a 100 grain weight bullet and said it would not blow up an LCP. The practice rounds I bought for the gun are 95 grain weight bullet (no PSI rating on the box though) and showed absolutely no bulge at the base of the case.

If you pull up the SAMMI recommendations for the .380 Auto, you will see that it is approved for loads up to a PSI rating of 21,500, yet when you look through the reload manuals for the .380 Auto you will see that most of them max out the .380 Auto at 16,500, or less, psi. Not sure why (maybe due to using used brass?), but I am pretty sure that those "+P" rounds are only loaded up to 21,500 and not really a +P round (From what I understand, there is no SAAMI +P spec for the .380). Since Ruger is approved for all SAMMI spec rounds, some "+p" will undoubtedly fall into the safe zone for the LCP.

I probably should've never mentioned "+P" in my OP. I am not looking for a "+P" round necessarily, just the hottest load that can be safely shot in the LCP. I only mention it as a generic term for "hot loads," as there is actually no such thing as .380 +P.

I appreciate any concerns you may have for my safety, but rest assured that I am intelligent enough to fully research any load before I put it in the weapon, and am not likely to "experiment" with any load that I feel is pushing the limit. This is why I am trying to find people who have experience with hot loads in the LCP here on this forum.
Old 09-06-2010, 12:12 PM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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For anyone else interested in this thread. I found a good discussion today on the KelTec Owners Group forum.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...num=1272158306

also some very good info on stopping power for most handgun and long gun calibers taken from actual shootings:

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpo...=10&Weight=All
Old 09-06-2010, 12:31 PM
dcliffhanger dcliffhanger is offline
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I really thought post #4 was a very intelligent nonthreatening response!

You really need to make your search parimeters a bit more clear.

Are you reloading?

Are you looking for factory "hot loads"?

Why do the factories load consevatively? Because there are pistols out there chambered in this round that are 102 years old. That does not mean that just their metal is 102 years old, it means their springs are also 102 years old. 90% of these guns are BLOWBACK actions. Everything going out one end is comming back at you from the other.

It might also mean that these tiney pistols we carry are designed for the load as it exists, not as we would want it to exist. The .380 now spans a wide range of materials and weights. Our mouse guns are walking right at the margin of what any material will take in this caliber in the size parimeter we are offered.

Why do you not simply order some Hydrashocks, Corbons or Glazer Safty Slugs. Either of them will offer you the maximum performance from a .380 with the safty of factory R&D work.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:00 PM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
I really thought post #4 was a very intelligent nonthreatening response!

You really need to make your search parimeters a bit more clear.

Are you reloading?

Are you looking for factory "hot loads"?

.....

Why do you not simply order some Hydrashocks, Corbons or Glazer Safty Slugs. Either of them will offer you the maximum performance from a .380 with the safty of factory R&D work.
It was nonthreatening, but did not answer my question. That is not the post that got me up in arms. Sorry if I unjustly attacked you. It was your second post that irritated me.

I realize that I never should have said "+P" at all. Please read my other posts on this thread for clarification. Sometimes I find that by not asking too specific a question, it doesn't "lead" the reader into answering a certain way, and I can get a wider variety of responses. I may have missed the mark in this case however, as my post seemed to garner a lot of attention from the "you shouldn't have bought a .380" crowd. I feel that the .380 mouse guns have their place, but I may have been a little too aggressive in defending my little .380. I apologize to anyone I may have p****d off, but I wanted to make it clear that I was not interested in any views on the philosophies behind carrying a .380.

I am not reloading and am looking for factory "hot loads".

I think that I will probably end up with Corbon 90gr JHP. I hear they developed this round with the Kel-Tec p3at in mind (almost if not totally identical barrel as the LCP). There is some very good info on stopping power at the site I listed above.

Just friendly FYI. The LCP is a locking breech, barrel tilt design very similar to a Glock and not a blowback design, so I have some faith it can handle hotter loads than standard blowback .380s.

Thank you for attempting to make amends. And providing these suggestions.
Old 09-06-2010, 02:24 PM
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brian I'm sure you think your not being rude and I did not answer your question. Your right though I didn't tell you the largest round you can put in a gun that probably won't blow your hand off. I and would guess most people don't want to recommend something against manufacturers specs for the most part because to tell you with first hand knowledge we d be risking our own hands. I said upgrade because its much more logical then over stressing your handgun. Hell maybe it wound work 10 to 150 times but what about 151 and you should shoot your preferred defense round plenty to make sure it works everytime. I wasn't trying to push my calibre choice on you I think 380 is fine, what I was trying to do was save your hand. Sorry for not willing to give you possiblely mutilating information. Have fun pushing the limits.
Old 09-06-2010, 09:55 PM
Brian W Brian W is offline
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brian I'm sure you think your not being rude and I did not answer your question. Your right though I didn't tell you the largest round you can put in a gun that probably won't blow your hand off. I and would guess most people don't want to recommend something against manufacturers specs for the most part because to tell you with first hand knowledge we d be risking our own hands. I said upgrade because its much more logical then over stressing your handgun. Hell maybe it wound work 10 to 150 times but what about 151 and you should shoot your preferred defense round plenty to make sure it works everytime. I wasn't trying to push my calibre choice on you I think 380 is fine, what I was trying to do was save your hand. Sorry for not willing to give you possiblely mutilating information. Have fun pushing the limits.
I don't believe I said anything out of line or rude in response to your post. I asked if anyone had experience running hot loads in a Ruger LCP, and you told me to "upgrade." Did you really mean for that post to be helpful? I have seen responses like that on every forum out there. There are always plenty of people who think that carrying a bigger caliber is the only answer. And will tell you that no matter what you ask. There was nothing in your comment to indicate that your reply was any different. Telling someone that you have safety concerns about shooting hot loads is a bit different than simply saying "heres what you do to increase your stopping power for a round you might feel is inadequate. UPGRADE." If you don't have anything helpful to say, don't say anything. I get excited when I see that someone replied to my question because I think that there might be useful information, and then I see something like that. It's very frustrating
Old 09-07-2010, 05:27 AM
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Ehh I guess I should have gone into more detail than I did, it does come off as unhelpful but probably one of the few times it might have been appropriate. As far as the 380 round goes its pretty effective despite what some people might think. Its been a military round before and still is I believe in believe in brazil. Itkl stop anybody. Shoot well and you dont have to overstress your gun. Itll last longer and be there when you need it which is what would concern me if I shoot this will it work next time whem I need it
Old 09-07-2010, 12:56 PM
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Ehh I guess I should have gone into more detail than I did, it does come off as unhelpful but probably one of the few times it might have been appropriate. As far as the 380 round goes its pretty effective despite what some people might think. Its been a military round before and still is I believe in believe in brazil. Itkl stop anybody. Shoot well and you dont have to overstress your gun. Itll last longer and be there when you need it which is what would concern me if I shoot this will it work next time whem I need it
Agreed. You make a good point about shot placement. Sorry if I was out of line. I can tell by this post that you are one of "those types".
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