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Old 08-27-2010, 09:08 PM
FloridaState FloridaState is offline
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Default NAA Mini pug .22 magum vs .22 short ballistics for defense? Would you carry one?



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I carry a .45 of some type with either a .380 in a pocket holster or a Glock 27 on the ankle.

For deep cover I just have the .380 and a glock 27 on the ankle if im not wearing shorts.

I am thinking a neck .22 might be something that I ALLWAYS have on me.

I have the small Naa .22 magnum revolver. It is really loud and actually sounds more like a .38. The recoil is enough to make it hard to stay on target as it moves the gun into a higher part of my hand. I use .22 magnum CCI TNT and am combat effective at 7 yards. Would not feel comfortable past that if you add in the stress of an actual incident.

The rubber grips and the night sight might make the pug a great weapon out to 15 yards. The recoil is not an issue and I am mostly concerned about how comfortable it would be around my neck. Who makes a necklas style lanyard that will be comfortable and break away if someone grabs me?

I know shot placement is everything but I believe there is an ammount of stopping power related to the round effectiveness. I take this from the fact that a .308 will do more dammage than a .22 if both rounds hit the same spot. With that said, how much does the .22 short, .22 LR, and .22 magnum compare in terms of shooting a human or dog attacker?

NAA Pug
•Overall Length: 4 1/2"
•Overall Height: 2 3/4"
•Width: 7/8"
•Weight: 6.4 oz. unloaded

NAA .22 Lr
•Overall Length: 4"
•Overall Height: 2 3/8"
•Width: 13/16"
•Weight: 4.5 oz. unloaded

Naa ,22 Short
•Barrel Length: 1 1/8"
•Overall Length: 3 5/8"
•Overall Height: 2 3/8"
•Width: 13/16"
•Weight: 4 oz. unloaded

How would the ballistics of a .22 short, .22 Long rifle CCI TNT, and .22 magnum CCI tnt compare? Who makes the most bad boy round for a .22 short?

I am considering using this as an around the neck kydex holster. There has to be one that will hold it in nice and not allow it to accidentally cock the hammer.

http://www.naaminis.com/short.html

http://www.naaminis.com/lrifle.html

http://www.naaminis.com/pug.html


.22 Short
.22 short, is a .22 caliber rimfire cartridge. Developed in 1857 for the first Smith and Wesson revolver, the .22 Short rimfire was the first American metallic cartridge. The original loading was a 29 grain bullet and 4 grains of black powder. Developed for self defense, the modern .22 Short, though still used in a few pocket pistols and mini-revolvers, is mainly used as a quiet round for practice. Due to its low recoil and good inherent accuracy, the .22 Short was used for the Olympic 25 m Rapid Fire Pistol event until 2004.
Specifications:
Case Length: .423 in.
Overall Length: .686 in.
Bullet weight - 29 gr. / Velocity - 1,045 fps. / Energy - 70 ft.lb.


.22 Long Rifle
.22 Long Rifle, is a rimfire cartridge that is well established with a variety of ammunition loadings, and in terms of units sold is still by far the most common in the world today. The .22 Long Rifle rimfire is a heavier loading of the .22 Long case and appeared in 1887, along with the first smokeless powder loadings of the .22 rimfires. It is one of the few cartridges that are accepted by a large variety of rifles, as well as pistols. Virtually every manufacturer of cartridge firearms makes at least one model chambering it, and this has been true for more than a century. There are a variety of different types of .22 Long Rifle (or ".22 LR") rimfire loads.
Specifications:
Case length: .595 in.
Case diameter: .225 in.
Bullet diameter: .224 in.
Rim diameter: .271 in.
Rim thickness: .040 in.
Cartridge overall length: .985 in.
Bullet weight - 40 gr. / Velocity - 1,082 fps. / Energy - 104 ft.lb. / (Subsonic)
Bullet weight - 36 gr. / Velocity - 1,328 fps. / Energy - 141 ft.lb. / (High Velocity)

.22 WMR
.22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire, is a rimfire rifle cartridge, commonly loaded with a 40 grain bullet, it can deliver velocities in the 2000 fps. range from a rifle barrel. The .22 WMR was introduced in the 1950s by Winchester, and it was the only successful rimfire cartridge introduced in the 20th century. The .22 WMR uses a larger case than the more popular .22 Long Rifle rimfire, both in diameter and length. The .22 WMR's case is also much thicker, allowing much higher pressures. Since the .22 WMR generally uses the same weight bullets as the .22 Long Rifle, it is generally used in similar situations. The 40 grain .22 WMR at 100 yards still retains the velocity of a .22 LR at the muzzle, which can provide improved penetration at all ranges, and more reliable expansion at long range with expanding bullets.
Specifications:
Case length: 1.052 in.
Overall length: 1.350 in.
Bullet diameter: .224 in.
Bullet weight - 40 gr. / Velocity - 2,020 fps. / Energy - 360 ft.lb.
Old 08-27-2010, 10:45 PM
mightyoak mightyoak is offline
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The LRRPs, Rangers and SF guys in Viet Nam used silenced .22 pistols to kill enemy sentries. That in iitself makes the .22 lr worth taking a second look at.
Old 08-27-2010, 10:57 PM
dcliffhanger dcliffhanger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyoak View Post
The LRRPs, Rangers and SF guys in Viet Nam used silenced .22 pistols to kill enemy sentries. That in iitself makes the .22 lr worth taking a second look at.
Yea, I was one of those guys. Once had the sgt on point shoot a VC between the eyes with a silenced Ruger. Bullet bounced off and he fired a half clip out of his AK before the sgt cut him in two with his machete. We spent two days running and lost half the patrol.

We never used the .22 for taking out senturys again in my unit.

We did use them to shoot rats when they invaded the hooches.

The .22 minirevolver is the gun you shoot the guy with just before he beats you to death with a stick.

Get a better plan.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:58 PM
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"Deep cover" eh?

Not only do the US forces use them, the Isrealis have been using them for decades, but only up close and not in the bush...
Old 08-27-2010, 11:16 PM
naalover naalover is offline
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If you'd like to see the ballistics of the NAA Pug, I just did a thorough review of the gun using both .22 magnum and long rifle cartridges from a variety of manufacturers:

http://naaminis.blogspot.com/2010/08...allistics.html

I also did a pretty thorough accuracy test with all of the magnum framed revolvers yesterday:

http://naaminis.blogspot.com/2010/08...-shootout.html
Old 08-27-2010, 11:56 PM
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Amen!

At 7 yards, I'd rather have a big sharp knife!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
Yea, I was one of those guys. Once had the sgt on point shoot a VC between the eyes with a silenced Ruger. Bullet bounced off and he fired a half clip out of his AK before the sgt cut him in two with his machete. We spent two days running and lost half the patrol.

We never used the .22 for taking out senturys again in my unit.

We did use them to shoot rats when they invaded the hooches.

The .22 minirevolver is the gun you shoot the guy with just before he beats you to death with a stick.

Get a better plan.
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:35 AM
FloridaState FloridaState is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
Yea, I was one of those guys. Once had the sgt on point shoot a VC between the eyes with a silenced Ruger. Bullet bounced off and he fired a half clip out of his AK before the sgt cut him in two with his machete. We spent two days running and lost half the patrol.

We never used the .22 for taking out senturys again in my unit.

We did use them to shoot rats when they invaded the hooches.

The .22 minirevolver is the gun you shoot the guy with just before he beats you to death with a stick.

Get a better plan.
Do you think a .22 magnum would of had a different result?
Old 08-28-2010, 11:41 AM
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.22 short: FORGET IT in a handgun. I carried one on a trapline many years ago when I read where it was good for dispatching the furbearers. Did OK until I caught this one really extra large raccoon, and the bullet did not penetrate the skull. So, I tried to put one thru the eye, only put his eye out. So, I pulled out a bigger gun to actually do the job. So, the .22 short in the handguns can't be counted on for anything but to annoy someone. Out of a rifle, it can have decent enough power to kill a bird or maybe a small animal. But that whole idea of "jam the gun in the attacker's eye socket and pull the trigger" using a small gun makes for good reading, but does not represent real life, or death.
Old 08-28-2010, 12:40 PM
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So the .22 short wont penetrate a human skull? Will a .22 magnum penetrate clothing and a rib cage?
Old 08-28-2010, 12:42 PM
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Have you tried carrying your Glock 27 in a SmartCarry Holster? The SmartCarry Holsters really do work as advertised and are comfortable when you are walking, standing and sitting.
Old 08-28-2010, 01:00 PM
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I have their mini revolver in .22LR. You loose so much, ballistically, from that short barrel, that even the .22LR is only marginal. A .22 short would be just about worthless. I don't know how well the magnum would work in such a short barrel, since the powder is optimized for a longer burn.

I know the tiny revolvers are very hard to master. It's the one gun that I've tried to love for years, but just can't. It's well built and it's cute, but in my hands, it's also absolutely worthless.
Old 08-28-2010, 01:12 PM
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whatever has the biggest foot pounds and loudest crack, go for the 22wmr
Old 08-28-2010, 10:09 PM
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Default Actual NAA .22 Mini Against Three Bad Guys

From http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=433867

"I was wearing a tuxedo and therefore only carrying single action .22 Magnum N.A.A. revolver... With their firearms pointed at me, I drew mine (thank God for years of practice), and shot the apparent leader of that gang in the chest - he screamed like a stuck pig and staggered backwards. The first thing I did was run for cover. As the other two were only about 20 feet away from me, bullets rained down on me as I hid momentarily behind a tree in my drive."

That story doesn't speak to the strengths of the gun... It speaks to the fact that, of all of the guns this guy did have, the mini magnum was the one he had on him and used. It did blow up, but he never did say if the gun was hit by one of the bullets coming at him from the bad guys. That's one mini magnum, five shots, one dead bad guy and two other thugs thwarted. What's the takeaway?

"Thank God for years of practice."
Old 08-28-2010, 10:46 PM
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Great story. But I have yet to see ~anything~ that would make carrying a .22 pistol/revolver (in any variant) seem like a good idea.

Is it better than nothing? Certainly! But so is a sharp stick.

BTW - if there were three guys within 20 feet of him and he survived, it had a heck of a lot less to do with the weapon than the motivation of the . . dare I say . . goblins.
Old 08-28-2010, 11:06 PM
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The great pistoleros of the past Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan both stated that a snub nosed revolver in .22 WRM would be a great last chance, up close, I have no other option gun to carry...Stick it against the torso or under the chin and empty the cylinder then run like Hell...I can't remember if they ever carried one or just recommended it as an alternative...In that form I'd probably carry one.

In the form of a Deringer (proper spelling) it would be the absolute last choice in a firearm and a neck holster, the last way I'd ever carry a handgun...The belt buckle models make a lot more sense and a lot less dangerous.

Either case why a rimfire especially when you can get a .380 ACP or .327 Federal even some 9mms for just a little more weight and size but with a tremendous advantage in energy/velocity.
Old 08-28-2010, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekHer View Post
The great pistoleros of the past Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan both stated that a snub nosed revolver in .22 WRM would be a great last chance, up close, I have no other option gun to carry...Stick it against the torso or under the chin and empty the cylinder then run like Hell...I can't remember if they ever carried one or just recommended it as an alternative...In that form I'd probably carry one.

In the form of a Deringer (proper spelling) it would be the absolute last choice in a firearm and a neck holster, the last way I'd ever carry a handgun...The belt buckle models make a lot more sense and a lot less dangerous.

Either case why a rimfire especially when you can get a .380 ACP or .327 Federal even some 9mms for just a little more weight and size but with a tremendous advantage in energy/velocity.
the 22 wrm was designed as a rifle round. Why would anyone trust their life to a rimfire. True rimfires nhave been used to assininate poeple but up very close.
Old 08-29-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naalover View Post
What's the takeaway?
That he got very lucky? That he should have had a more effective and easier to shoot gun with him? There are plenty of small handguns that would have concealed just as well and given him more firepower.
Old 08-29-2010, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naalover View Post
From http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=433867

"I was wearing a tuxedo and therefore only carrying single action .22 Magnum N.A.A. revolver... With their firearms pointed at me, I drew mine (thank God for years of practice), and shot the apparent leader of that gang in the chest - he screamed like a stuck pig and staggered backwards. The first thing I did was run for cover. As the other two were only about 20 feet away from me, bullets rained down on me as I hid momentarily behind a tree in my drive."

That story doesn't speak to the strengths of the gun... It speaks to the fact that, of all of the guns this guy did have, the mini magnum was the one he had on him and used. It did blow up, but he never did say if the gun was hit by one of the bullets coming at him from the bad guys. That's one mini magnum, five shots, one dead bad guy and two other thugs thwarted. What's the takeaway?

"Thank God for years of practice."
It's James Bond!!
Old 08-30-2010, 06:51 AM
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I don't have a pug but the regular .22 lr version, I have a kydex neck holster that I wear alot, mine would choke me to death though as the strap is paracord. I have killed many small animals with mine. After a robbery that I chased the bad guy and we had a standoff across a back yard where he claimed he was going to shoot me and I hollered back "shoot" (intelligent huh)anyway long story short I was carrying cci stingers that I never shot out of the gun, when I test fired them I couldn't hit a fairly large piece of cardboard at 10 feet. Regular standard velocity .22 rounds shot decent. I usually keep the first hole loaded with a birdshot round, works great against snakes.While it may be limited I'll keep my mini revolver over a sharp stick.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:05 AM
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I thought you were trying to stop grizzly bears?
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