Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Firearms and Other Weapons Forum > Military Weapons Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Military Weapons Forum AR15, AK47, SKS, H&K, Galil, CETME, FN/FAL, Tanks, Ships, Jets, Helicopters....

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2011, 01:28 PM
jnr0104's Avatar
jnr0104 jnr0104 is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 1,146
Thanks: 771
Thanked 1,077 Times in 489 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by josey76 View Post
in this order,
1. AK
2. SKS
3. HK91/G3
4. M14/M1A/Grand
5. FAL
6. AR15/AR10
What he said !
__________________
Fearless Leader has Fundamentally Changed the United States , remember he promised he would!
SO, Welcome to the NEW AMERIKA !!! COMRADES!
The Following User Says Thank You to jnr0104 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-02-2011, 09:47 PM
MitchSnider MitchSnider is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks: 4
Thanked 52 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I came to this forum after doing a search for a reliable rifle. I have been doing a lot of hard looking at Jeff Cooper’s concept of the scout rifle purely from a ‘single rifle’ or ‘general purpose rifle’ and survivalist situation. Not necessarily the best for any one thing (distance or sniping or hunting or home defense) but a dependable piece that can do all these things well, if not the best. Ruger just came out with a scout rifle and I had been looking really hard at bolt actions. The problem is, even at Gunsite on their 270 rifle course of around a thousand rounds, nothing is getting through without malfunctions. I still like Cooper’s ideas but research is just not proving out what would seem to be obvious intuitively, a bolt action being the utmost in reliability.

I own two AR-15 rifles. The first is an Olympic Arms kit that I have had for 25 years with around 3 cases of ammo through it without a single issue. I just bought a new Law Enforcement Colt model about 3 years ago when they let us purchase our own rifles for patrol (in addition to the issued Rem 870 pump 12 ga but it had to be a Colt or RockRiver only, my Olympic was out) and the first day on the range I had the rifle completely lock up on me and was out of commission. It was the cheap butt crud ammunition reloads that our Sheriff’s Office purchased from some backwater Miami dealer and blew a primer back through the bolt and seized it up good. I was using a continuously larger and heavier hammer on a brass (squib) rod on the back inside of the bolt and hammered the crud out of it and finally had it free about an hour later. Lots of little pieces of brass from the primer falling out that had wedged the bolt. I have only used ‘quality’ ammo ever since and have never had another problem with it. I even have a 10’ barrel NFA stamp on a Rock River Arms upper for the rifle and about a thousand rounds through both uppers now with no problems after that first batch of crappy ammo. I have never had an actual parts breakage on either AR15 platform and they are easily converted to full auto if necessary in a SHTF scenario (homemade Lightning Link). Keep the weapon ‘reasonably’ clean and maintained, use ‘quality’ ammo and magazines, and I have no problem depending on the ‘black rifle’.

I have a Springfield M6 survival rifle in stainless over/under 22lr and .410 that I have in my survival pack that I keep in the airplane when flying cross country trips. From a reliability standpoint, I don’t see how anything could break on that single action breach gun. It is single shot so you won’t ‘waste’ a lot of ammo in a survival scenario so it is great to carry for hunting and survival as you can carry literally thousands of rounds of 22lr ammunition and it would be my choice to keep folded on the outside of my pack as the primary food or small game weapon. But it is not so good for a survival situation for self-defense against the 2-legged beasts, .410 shotgun aside as it is still only one shot. This would negate Cooper’s single rifle or scout rifle concept. A .22lr is just such to good an idea for taking small game for the survivalist to leave behind or pass up.

For last ditch, close-in, self defense you are ALWAYS going to have that Colt 1911 .45 on your hip to transition to anyway, so is a perfect lack of malfunction record really such an all eliminating consideration? I think still yes if we can find one in Mr. Cooper’s general purpose rifle.

I want a minimum parts counts Cooper Scout Rifle that is basically so rugged that it is impossible to malfunction. If a bad round is encountered, it can clear it easily and quickly (unlike my blown primer in the bolt scenario). So far that sounds like a single loader breach action but this is not acceptable for defense as it needs to be able to fire multiple rounds quickly. Now we might be talking bolt action but Ruger uses ‘investment casting’ poured metal instead of a solid forged piece of steel (Savage scout is out as a two piece bolt with a history of broken bolt pins) and even Cooper’s ‘blessed’ Styer Scout has had a lot of ‘NO BANG’ (light firing pin hits) history when the trigger is pulled and other issues. I also want the .308 as Cooper indicated for its stopping power for larger animals and the ability for consistent MOA shots out to 300 yards.

So until someone can point out to me that ultimate scout rifle I will still carry my Springfield M6 folded over and strapped to my pack, the Colt 1911 .45 on my hip, and the Colt AR-15 in my hand/slung combo. Find me that perfect, zero malfunction scout rifle and I will replace the AR in that list. Is there a 22lr over .308 rifle combo over .12 gauge that is 99.9999% reliable made of solid one piece forged parts and still fits the Cooper Scout rifle criteria? Make one dang it! The only thing I feel that I may need to ‘justify’ to this group is the AR choice. It is mine for many of the same reasons as the military. You can carry a lot more rounds than heavier cartridges and still take down a man/large game. You can convert to full auto easily in an emergency SHTF meltdown. Plenty of parts available, even though in 25 years of shooting them I have had nothing break to need replacing yet. It is short, easy to carry, Colt has worked out all the bugs over the last several decades now, and I already have 2 of them. (Besides carrying a lot of ammo I did not pick the AK because of accuracy at the scout rifle 300+ yard needs. I would rather take out whatever I need to at a looooong distance if I can).

Just a couple of other things I noted from reading this whole posting. One is that I actually have had rounds ‘delay fire’. I had some Glaser Safety Slugs in .380 (at over $2.50 a bullet) that had stored in my gun cabinet for about 3 years and went out to the range and pulled the trigger and a light ‘pop’ was heard (the primer), followed by a sizzling sound for about 1 second, followed by the round being finally fired. I shot up the rest of them (only had a dozen) and all but 2 did the same thing! So it is possible. I have also fired some old WWII era .45 ammo that you could actually watch the actually bullet as it flew through the air and fall to the dirt 20 feet away.

We had Uzi’s on our SWAT team when I first started on the teams 23 years ago these things seemed fairly indestructible. We never had one malfunction and you could even put the barrel in upside down and it would still shoot (albeit low) as well as fill the thing up with sand and still goes bang! Nice heavy bolt blowback design (no gas to rely on). But it is not good for that 300 yard distance MOA that I am looking for (and the open bolt design is counter intuitive for reliability but was done for cooling as I recall).

The HK/91 or G3 mentioned is too punishing to shoot a lot with. After firing all day on a rifle course I was taking for SWAT with our HK and firing over half a case I showed up for day 2 with a noticeable swollen cheek and a painful flinch on every shoot. Cool looking weapon but I had to finish the course with my AR-15 to pass.

Great thread and a really big thanks to everyone that contributed!

Cheers,
Mitch
30 year career Law Enforcement/SWAT/Firearms Instructor/Camper/Survival enthusiast





My Colt AR (am probably going to lighten this by going to less/lighter railsand the 37mm is only on there when I am 'playing' The other side has a SureFire Scout light).

The Following User Says Thank You to MitchSnider For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2011, 07:41 AM
mefunkymxw's Avatar
mefunkymxw mefunkymxw is offline
blaidd ddrwg
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Virginia
Age: 32
Posts: 12,935
Thanks: 8,144
Thanked 17,414 Times in 7,232 Posts
Default

i concur with all the votes for AKs... i have two (one 7.62 the other 5.45) and have never had a problem with either regardless of what ammo they were fed.

if the question was extended to handguns i would go with a ruger gp100 revolver...
Old 05-03-2011, 07:44 AM
mefunkymxw's Avatar
mefunkymxw mefunkymxw is offline
blaidd ddrwg
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Virginia
Age: 32
Posts: 12,935
Thanks: 8,144
Thanked 17,414 Times in 7,232 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchSnider View Post
I'm sorry dude, but this thing looks absolutely horrific. the sight offset on top of the carry handle is HUGE... is any part of your face on the stock when looking through that thing???
Old 05-03-2011, 09:37 AM
Getyershells's Avatar
Getyershells Getyershells is offline
Noman
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 900
Thanks: 627
Thanked 1,364 Times in 424 Posts
Default

The most reliable gun I own is a single shot break action .410 guage. Put the round in (bang) open the action pull the spent shell, put a new one in. It's brutally simple.
The Following User Says Thank You to Getyershells For This Useful Post:
Old 05-03-2011, 09:59 AM
BumblingBear's Avatar
BumblingBear BumblingBear is offline
Super Saiyan Survivalist
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 32
Posts: 3,224
Thanks: 1,368
Thanked 3,577 Times in 1,489 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mefunkymxw View Post
I'm sorry dude, but this thing looks absolutely horrific. the sight offset on top of the carry handle is HUGE... is any part of your face on the stock when looking through that thing???
I thought the same thing but didn't want to be mean - especially after such a nice post.

But yeah... that may be one of the ugliest ARs I have ever seen.
Old 05-03-2011, 11:53 AM
MitchSnider MitchSnider is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks: 4
Thanked 52 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Yuppers, its fugly! It is set up to sight through the existing standard iron sights for your 'cheek weld' distance shooting. The optic on the top is the Leupold CQB Mark IV and is set for 1:1 and rapid, both eyes open, heads up, fast target acquisition and engagement. You bring the weapon up and keep your head up, not tilted to the side or even trying to get a 'face plant'. The type of shooting it is set up for is 25-50 yard (or less) close range quick target engagement combat (law enforcement). Working your way through clearing a building with a tilted head and cheek plant seems awkward once you try it this way. You can zoom up to 4 power and make a face plant using this optic but is more of a head up than head tilt so it is different. Hey, I shoot very well with it in this configuration so as they say, don't knock it till you try it

By the way, the operator is not much prettier than the rifle anyways .


Cheers,
Mitch
Old 05-03-2011, 12:12 PM
CPL_BS_88's Avatar
CPL_BS_88 CPL_BS_88 is offline
Sweat more, bleed less!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,151
Thanks: 1,570
Thanked 1,512 Times in 942 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getyershells View Post
The most reliable gun I own is a single shot break action .410 guage. Put the round in (bang) open the action pull the spent shell, put a new one in. It's brutally simple.
same here except mine is a 12ga. I picked one up as a long term hunting arm after i saw a vid of using high-brass and black powder then loading it as you would a muzzle loader. i got the idea from Dave Canterbury. Wanted to post the vid but could not find it again...
Old 05-03-2011, 12:38 PM
mefunkymxw's Avatar
mefunkymxw mefunkymxw is offline
blaidd ddrwg
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Virginia
Age: 32
Posts: 12,935
Thanks: 8,144
Thanked 17,414 Times in 7,232 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchSnider View Post
Yuppers, its fugly! It is set up to sight through the existing standard iron sights for your 'cheek weld' distance shooting. The optic on the top is the Leupold CQB Mark IV and is set for 1:1 and rapid, both eyes open, heads up, fast target acquisition and engagement. You bring the weapon up and keep your head up, not tilted to the side or even trying to get a 'face plant'. The type of shooting it is set up for is 25-50 yard (or less) close range quick target engagement combat (law enforcement). Working your way through clearing a building with a tilted head and cheek plant seems awkward once you try it this way. You can zoom up to 4 power and make a face plant using this optic but is more of a head up than head tilt so it is different. Hey, I shoot very well with it in this configuration so as they say, don't knock it till you try it

By the way, the operator is not much prettier than the rifle anyways .


Cheers,
Mitch
im tracking on usage, but I guess my question would be why not attach optic directly to rail on upper reciever and throw B/U iron behind (as opposed to wasting your rail space with a carry handle / rear sight)... during my first tour in iraq i had a normal aimpoint m68 with a higher mount that would allow for being on target when you brought the rifle up to high ready, no need to adjust head or rifle... the sight offset will also kinda screw with your downrange performance, if you have that zeroed to 50m then you must be hitting hella high at 100... to each his own i guess.... is that thing difficult to weild / turn & point???
Old 05-07-2011, 12:44 AM
mongoose's Avatar
mongoose mongoose is offline
Watchin tha world go by
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: on a workin vacation
Posts: 8,152
Thanks: 6,173
Thanked 8,822 Times in 3,566 Posts
Default

My FN Sporter (223) --
5 digit serial number, 1988, still shooting straight and always.

only stoppages have been:
mag
ammo
operator headspace and timing
Attached Thumbnails
014.jpg  
Old 05-07-2011, 07:35 AM
RazorCityDen RazorCityDen is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in Wyoming!
Posts: 900
Thanks: 762
Thanked 970 Times in 464 Posts
Default

...............this issue NEVER gets solved on the internet, ALL weapons fail at some point under some condition. The key is knowing what to do about it.

Take care,
Old 05-07-2011, 09:51 AM
Roaver's Avatar
Roaver Roaver is offline
Young Adult
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 460
Thanks: 408
Thanked 252 Times in 138 Posts
Default

AK-47, SKS and HK G3.
Old 05-07-2011, 10:24 AM
Gort's Avatar
Gort Gort is offline
Klaatu Brarada Nikto
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ballistic, Arizona
Posts: 791
Thanks: 683
Thanked 830 Times in 393 Posts
Default

I'll limit my comments to semi-auto battle rifles since any discussion about bolt actions and pump actions are more about the operator and the ammo than the weapon. NOTE: I'm not talking about aftermarket makers, only the real thing by the original makers.


IMHO, you can't do any better than a Springfield M1A, M1 Garand or Beretta BM62, all of which use the same action......all of these also have an excellent history of reliability, quality of materials used to build them and durability.

I've owned a BM62 and it was easily the best shooting rifle I've had the pleasure of shooting (or par with the M1A), I'm still kicking myself 25 years after selling it.

Amazingly the 3 AR-180s I've owned over the years were 100% flawless in operation, and were one of the earliest gas piston black rifles.

AKs have their place it's just not at the top of this list, unless you want to talk about inexpensive rifles under $800.
Old 05-07-2011, 10:46 AM
Cryptkeeper's Avatar
Cryptkeeper Cryptkeeper is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,101
Thanks: 4,740
Thanked 5,404 Times in 2,730 Posts
Default

eventhough i truely like AK style weapons. the question is what is the most reliable weapon. i would think K.I.S.S. would be important in this situation. less moveing parts,or less parts all together means less to go wrong.

with that in mind what i think what would be the MOST RELIABLE weapon would be 2 types of weapons,flint locks/black powder ,or if your looking for a bit more modern single shots. those 2 weapon types would be the most RELIABLE weapon someone could get
The Following User Says Thank You to Cryptkeeper For This Useful Post:
Old 05-08-2011, 01:07 AM
CPL_BS_88's Avatar
CPL_BS_88 CPL_BS_88 is offline
Sweat more, bleed less!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,151
Thanks: 1,570
Thanked 1,512 Times in 942 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptkeeper View Post
eventhough i truely like AK style weapons. the question is what is the most reliable weapon. i would think K.I.S.S. would be important in this situation. less moveing parts,or less parts all together means less to go wrong.

with that in mind what i think would be the MOST RELIABLE weapon would be 2 types of weapons,flint locks/black powder ,or if your looking for a bit more modern single shots. those 2 weapon types would be the most RELIABLE weapon someone could get
agreed...
The Following User Says Thank You to CPL_BS_88 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-09-2011, 12:42 AM
Gort's Avatar
Gort Gort is offline
Klaatu Brarada Nikto
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ballistic, Arizona
Posts: 791
Thanks: 683
Thanked 830 Times in 393 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptkeeper View Post
eventhough i truely like AK style weapons. the question is what is the most reliable weapon. i would think K.I.S.S. would be important in this situation. less moveing parts,or less parts all together means less to go wrong.
Not to be a smart-ass but I think your mean the Kriss Super V......and yes that is an excellent nominee.
Old 05-09-2011, 09:55 AM
CPL_BS_88's Avatar
CPL_BS_88 CPL_BS_88 is offline
Sweat more, bleed less!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,151
Thanks: 1,570
Thanked 1,512 Times in 942 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort View Post
Not to be a smart-ass but I think your mean the Kriss Super V......and yes that is an excellent nominee.
no he means what he said; kiss stands for "Keep It Simple Stupid" or the way i like to say it: "Keep It Stupid Simple". this is a very common saying you will see a lot around her as simple things are very often the best.

The AK is the epitome if the KISS principal.
The Following User Says Thank You to CPL_BS_88 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-10-2011, 12:52 AM
Gort's Avatar
Gort Gort is offline
Klaatu Brarada Nikto
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ballistic, Arizona
Posts: 791
Thanks: 683
Thanked 830 Times in 393 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPL_BS_88 View Post
no he means what he said; kiss stands for "Keep It Simple Stupid" or the way i like to say it: "Keep It Stupid Simple". this is a very common saying you will see a lot around her as simple things are very often the best.

The AK is the epitome if the KISS principal.
............................ ..............................., I deserve a whipping after that mis-read.
Old 05-10-2011, 10:56 PM
CPL_BS_88's Avatar
CPL_BS_88 CPL_BS_88 is offline
Sweat more, bleed less!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,151
Thanks: 1,570
Thanked 1,512 Times in 942 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort View Post
............................ ..............................., I deserve a whipping after that mis-read.
lol it happens
Old 05-11-2011, 05:07 PM
bert the turtle bert the turtle is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 824
Thanks: 1,886
Thanked 1,208 Times in 447 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptkeeper View Post
eventhough i truely like AK style weapons. the question is what is the most reliable weapon. i would think K.I.S.S. would be important in this situation. less moveing parts,or less parts all together means less to go wrong.

with that in mind what i think what would be the MOST RELIABLE weapon would be 2 types of weapons,flint locks/black powder ,or if your looking for a bit more modern single shots. those 2 weapon types would be the most RELIABLE weapon someone could get
I'm going to have to disagree with this. In a driving rainstorm, I fully expect an AK to work just fine though magazine after magazine. I would be absolutely shocked if I could get 10 consecutive shots to go without a hitch in such conditions with a flintlock.
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reliability, rifle



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Rifle Is More Reliable? Liberal Gopher Rifle Forum 22 08-28-2010 11:58 AM
Is the AK more reliable? M.J. Military Weapons Forum 78 06-26-2010 12:52 PM
GPS Reliable? unit505 Manmade and Natural Disasters 6 04-17-2010 03:10 PM
AR15 Reliable? charlieb Military Weapons Forum 18 12-17-2008 01:29 AM
how reliable is the remington 799? clemsonguy81 Firearms General Discussion 0 12-01-2008 03:26 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net