Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Survival & Preparedness Forum > Disaster Preparedness General Discussion
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Notices

Disaster Preparedness General Discussion Anything Disaster Preparedness or Survival Related

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2010, 04:35 PM
kev's Avatar
kev kev is offline
Forum Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Texas
Age: 46
Posts: 14,703
Thanks: 1,617
Thanked 31,601 Times in 6,682 Posts
Default Maintaining a bug out location or remote camp



Advertise Here

From time to time I see people asking about bug out locations - I like to call places like that "camps." The word camp or deer camp draws less attention then the term "bug out location".

Instead of saying "its a place my family can go is a world wide eotwawki situation happens" - its a place that my family and I go to relax.

Back around 1980 my parents inherited some land from my grandmother (my dads mom). Shortly after my parents got the land, they moved a 2 bedroom 1 bath trailer house behind my grandmothers house - which had been built around the turn of the 20th century. Mom and dad put a septic system down, setup a water well,,, all the comforts of home, except a home phone. Back in the early 1980 cell phones had not been invented yet. So for maybe 10 years, every time we went to the camp, we lost all contact with the outside world.


I would like to share my past 30 years experience with dealing with camps, and remote locations.


Rodents - This includes mice, rats and squirrels. Not only do they chew holes in the eves of the house, in floors, in the walls, and get into your food stocks, they build nest, ****, and poop everywhere. When you start talking about feces, there is always the chance of diseases.
Squirrels are not too bad about staying in the house, its mostly the mice and rats that like to make themselves at home. What is the difference between a mouse and a rat? About a pound.


If you put rat poison out - sometimes they will get in the walls, die, and start stinking. But for a camp that people do not go to everyday, nobody will be around to smell the stench.


There have been times when I have gone to the camp, and found mice in the toilet - dead. I'am going to guess they jumped into the toilet to get a drink of water, and could not get back out.
When those mice get hungry, they will start chewing into everything they can. This includes peanut butter jars made out of plastic, snacks, chips,,,, anything with a plastic container.


Something of interest, I have kept cases of MREs at the camp and rodents have never gotten into them. Why is it that rodents will chew into a jar of peanut butter, but not an MRE? Maybe because the MREs are double sealed? Maybe because the MREs do not have the smell of food on them from being handled? I dont know exactly, maybe its a combination of several factors?


Food Stockpile -Sometimes my family and I will go to the camp, bring some chili, canned beans, spam,,,,, with plans to either it that weekend, or eat it later on. Well, the canned goods get put in the pantry, forgotten, and expire. We may keep a couple of weeks worth of food up there, and its rarely rotated out. So when we go looking for something to eat, a lot of the cans are expired. This is one of the problems with keeping food stocks at a remote location. If people only go there a few times a year, the canned goods do not get rotated out.


At least one thing with the rodents, they force us to rotate out some of our food stocks. Its like the mouse is saying - "this is going to expire soon, so why not eat it before it expires?" A big chew hole in the side of a plastic jar of peanut butter is a lot more noticeable then a small printed date on the top of the lid.


Every bug out location should have some kind of food stocks, but the problem is keeping the food rotated out. When you have a remote location that may not be visited but a few times a year, food rotation becomes an issue. Its not like the dates can be checked every few weeks.


No frozen foods (or very little) are kept at the camp. There have been times when the freezer stopped working, or the power was out for several days and all of the meat in the freezer spoiled.


Bottled water - Bottled water has no been "that" much an issue. Most of the time, the last person to the camp will make a note of how much water is there, and tell the other family members "whoever goes up there next, be sure to bring some water." We have a well, but it does not get used enough to keep the water cycled out.


We try to keep a couple of cases of bottled water, a few gallons of bottled water, and a Royal Berkey water filter at the camp.


Group Hygiene and Personal Hygiene - this includes bar soap, liquid soap, tooth bushes, tooth paste, towels, linens, sheets, pillow cases and toilet paper.


We try to keep a good supply of bar soap and liquid soap at the camp. Clean hands is one of the best ways to prevent the spread of disease. Whether its eating, or wound treatment, clean hands is a must have. Liquid soap is good for washing your hands, and bar soap is good for washing yourself off in a shower or in the creek, river, pond, lake,,, whatever you have access to.


When a family member spends the night at the camp, they will change the sheets on the bed, take them home, wash them and bring them back on the next trip. This also means that we have to have extra sheets in stock.
One thing that we try to keep plenty of, and that is blankets. Whether people are sleeping on the couches, or on an air mattress, they have to have a blanket to cover up with.


Stored blankets and rodents do not mix. Those pesky rats and mice will chew the blankets up to use in their nest. So when you see signs of rodents, its important to get rid of them.


Flashlights and batteries - because batteries go dead - even when their not being used - we have started stocking up on hand crank flashlights. Its difficult for a hand crank flashlight to beat a 3 D cell LED maglight, so we bring flashlights with us when we go to the camp, and take them back home when we leave.


The benefit of a hand crank flashlight - when you get to your remote location, its winter time, freezing cold outside, and you need to go turn the propane tank on, you know that the hand crank flashlight is going to work. Or when you get to the camp and the power is off - you do not have to look for batteries.


We keep a few battery powered flashlights at the camp, but we also have several hand crank flashlights.


Fuel stockpile - storing fuel at the camp is not "that" big of an issue, but then again we do not stockpile hundreds of gallons either. We may have 15 - 20 gallons of gasoline - and that gets run through the ATVs or lawn mower.


Due to the risk of fire, we do not even have kerosene lanterns at the camp. Its just nothing that my family has ever felt that we needed. If the power goes out, we go to bed when the sun goes down; either we go to bed, or we build a camp fire outside.


Cooking - we have 3 cooking options, the propane stove, microwave or wood burning grill.
Propane stove is connected to a 250 gallon propane tank, it can be used when the power goes out, and has a dual function of acting like a heater when the power goes out. Lets say that a winter storm rolls through and knocks the power out. With no electricity the furnace blower can not blow the hot air. So we turn on a couple of the burners on the stove, and it can heat mot of the house.




Microwave only works when the power is on, and its good for hating up quick meals. The power going off is not an issue right now, but you have to plan for a worse case situation.


Wood burning grill is just that - I have a pit on a trailer that can be pulled back and forth from the camp. The fire box is 24 inches in diameter, and 2 feet 6 inches long. The cooking surface is 6 feet 9 inches long and 29 inches across.


I have an old 250 gallon propane tank that is going to be turned into another pit, this one will stay at the camp. That way, regardless of who goes up there, they will have access to a wood burning grill. The cooking surface on the new pit should be about 4 feet long and 22 - 24 inches across.


First aid kits and medical supplies - Instead of stocking bottles of over the counter pain killers, we stock up on boxes of the individual packages. We try to keep a box of Advil - 50 packages of liqui-gels, Tylenol and Tylenol arthritis. The individual packages are more sanitary then everyone sharing a community bottle.


For cleaning wounds, we keep a few bottles of alcohol handy.


Freeze Factor - frozen water lines tend to rupture. So when you turn the water pump on, water goes spraying everywhere. Its no fun trying to fix a broken water line when its raining and freezing cold outside.
When the cold weather rolls around, every time we leave the camp we turn off the water pump, drain the water lines, and open all of the faucets in and outside the house. The open faucets let air escape the water lines and allows the ice to expand a little bit.


If the temps are going to stay below freezing for an extended period of time, someone will make a trip to the camp and pour antifreeze into the toilets. A couple of times the water in the toilet froze and broke the toilet.
Its the little things that are often overlooked - like antifreeze in the toilets. Something so simple can save you a lot of trouble later on.

Teamwork - one of the most important factors in maintaining a remote camp / bug out location is teamwork and communications. When one family member visits the camp, its important for that person to communicate any problems back to the other family members. It helps if one person takes care of all of the communications. Instead of someone having to call all interested parties, tell one person, and everyone else calls that one person.


If there is an issue with something at the camp, the person that finds the issue needs to tell the person in charge of keeping track of everything.

__________________
Our survival gear Section

If you have a question about the forum, please post it in this section.
General questions sent through private messages will be ignored.

Last edited by kev; 08-21-2010 at 06:48 PM..
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to kev For This Useful Post:
Old 08-21-2010, 04:55 PM
Hick Industries's Avatar
Hick Industries Hick Industries is offline
Live Secret, Live Happy
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: High Desert California
Posts: 7,908
Thanks: 6,125
Thanked 11,936 Times in 4,473 Posts
Default

One suggestion I pick up from an Alaskan trapper. Store all your food in metal 55gal drums with tight fitting lids.
Old 08-21-2010, 05:12 PM
moggie6 moggie6 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Empire State....and they are not kidding. Yay NY!
Posts: 95
Thanks: 28
Thanked 72 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Hey Kev just out of curiosity do you keep any ammo there and if so do you store it any special way?
Old 08-21-2010, 05:22 PM
daval daval is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Maritimes
Posts: 164
Thanks: 1
Thanked 54 Times in 37 Posts
Default

When I lived in the Carribean everything dealing with food had to be kept in a metal foot-locker, fridge, or some other bug, rat, and varmint proof type of box.
Old 08-21-2010, 05:23 PM
tbanks tbanks is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 185
Thanks: 22
Thanked 182 Times in 82 Posts
Default camp

This is a great example of practing for the future.So many of us have great plans but no practical experience.I knew a group who went out with all their BOBs and equipment prepared to train for a weekend.When they got ready to leave on the trip the instructor told them drop your packs were only taking what you have in your pockets.Talk about some improvising but that group came out a few days later with a new look on being prepared.
Old 08-21-2010, 05:46 PM
TheDogofWar TheDogofWar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

antifreeze in any type of biological septic system is a terrible idea. It only takes a couple teaspoons of some chemicals to destroy the organisms at work, this includes bleach and ponds.
Old 08-21-2010, 06:01 PM
kev's Avatar
kev kev is offline
Forum Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Texas
Age: 46
Posts: 14,703
Thanks: 1,617
Thanked 31,601 Times in 6,682 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moggie6 View Post
Hey Kev just out of curiosity do you keep any ammo there and if so do you store it any special way?
Yes, we keep a wide variety of ammo - everything from 22 long rifle to 30-06.

A lot of the ammo is stored in air tight ammo cans, both metal and plastic. The thing with the metal ammo cans, they start to rust or corrode after about 10 years. The plastic ammo boxes seem to do a better job then the metal ones for long term storage.

I also keep spare ak47 and ar15 magazines at the camp. Some of the magazines have been greased, and double sealed in heavy plastic bags for about 12 - 14 years. The ar15 magazines are made of aluminum are are just stored in open bags. The mags stored in grease are made of steel, like ak47 mags.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogofWar View Post
antifreeze in any type of biological septic system is a terrible idea.
Then what do you suggest to keep the toilets from freezing and bursting? The toilets are flushed, so its the traps that freeze.
Old 08-21-2010, 06:07 PM
Nimmer Nimmer is offline
Set Free
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,349
Thanks: 3,111
Thanked 869 Times in 481 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogofWar View Post
antifreeze in any type of biological septic system is a terrible idea. It only takes a couple teaspoons of some chemicals to destroy the organisms at work, this includes bleach and ponds.
I shut down many "camps" with septic systems this way and it does not cause any problems.

The bigger problem is broken toilets and pipes that have to be replaced.
Old 08-21-2010, 06:23 PM
TheDogofWar TheDogofWar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

and I've been asked by homeowners why their 2 acre pond stinks to high hell and the bugs are so bad or why their septic system is backed up when roto rooter and others saw no internal damage.

Limited use in a hunting camp or remote camp might not be much of an issue but if it becomes a long term stay, you would be wise to monitor it's intake.

For an alternative, I wish I had an answer. Drained and plugged maybe. I'm just saying for extended use, dont do it. 50/50 alcohol water mix would keep it from freezing and has to be better that glycol.
Old 08-21-2010, 06:28 PM
lanahi lanahi is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northcentral Idaho
Posts: 4,806
Thanks: 7,362
Thanked 5,836 Times in 2,455 Posts
Default

Blankets and clothing should be stored in metal foot lockers or metal garbage cans too. They can eat through hard plastic garbage cans.

Mice even chew off the labels of cans! This can be very unhandy! They shred the wood of matches so they are unusable as well. They make homes inside mattresses. They chew through wires. Their urine is caustic enough to rust and eat through metal food cans. They can eat through plastic water jugs.

One good thing...mice can't climb smooth surfaces. That can give a hint of how to store some things. You can also store things in a refrigerator.
Old 08-21-2010, 06:33 PM
TheDogofWar TheDogofWar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanahi View Post
Blankets and clothing should be stored in metal foot lockers or garbage cans too.

Mice even chew off the labels of cans! This can be very unhandy! They shred the wood of matches so they are unusable as well. They make homes inside mattresses. They chew through wires. Their urine is caustic enough to rust and eat through metal food cans.

One good thing...mice can't climb smooth surfaces. That can give a hint of how to store some things.
Mice should always be a concern. Even though my location is occupied 24/7 or close enough, isolated storage is always a problem above ground. If it must be kept above ground, packing in metal or thick wood containers is best. Elevate them if possible and isolate any bedding materials from food sources.
Old 08-21-2010, 06:50 PM
hank2222's Avatar
hank2222 hank2222 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,094
Thanks: 11,940
Thanked 2,629 Times in 1,450 Posts
Default

i found that most of the problems i had was dealing with ants and spiders trying to get into the shelter air intakes for a steel door on the entance trend to keep them out of the shelter and the intake and outlet lines going into the shelter was design to a super tight fit and if something did not work we know it in a instast so the rodent problem was a not a big things..

second big thing for us was snakes laying on the rock pits and gravel walkways in the warm sun so that was a problem at times in the darkness ..so a flashlight and a long stick was.of the thing we used at night when walking around the area..that was one of the main reason i want to move the rock cribs intakes onto the back side of the walkway to keep the snake and scorpions problem to a basic level of dealing with them..

plus i never tried to go into or out of the shelter in hours of darkness in the summer time for it would be a chance meeting of a snake on the path soaking up the heat from the rocks in the pathway that where the long stick and flashlight came into play if i had to walk on the path ..snakes act as a insect control and that why i leave them alone to deal with them

but with four diff sized and types of wire mesh over the intakes and makeing the pipe drop saight down for a few feet then back up a few feet and then back down a few feet this going on for about 5 ft.. it dealt with the problems of ants and crawling things trying to get into the shelter along with haveing a way to seal off the unit and blow out the entance air with high pressure air to clean out the anything inside the pipe every time we go there ..
Old 08-21-2010, 06:56 PM
EdD270's Avatar
EdD270 EdD270 is offline
Recent Blog:
Wanderer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Arizona White Mountains & Mogollon Rim
Posts: 3,273
Thanks: 2,439
Thanked 2,614 Times in 1,371 Posts
Default

I started to reply on your fuel storage, then saw in the cooking section that you have a propane tank. Propane is the best for long-term storage as it don't "rot" like gasoline, diesel and other petroleum fuels will. Fill up a 500 gal propane tank and forget about it until you need it. Great for stoves, refrigerators, indoor and outdoor lighting, water heating, and even for a propane powered generator to run the well pump, or whatever. Many stores sell propane lights and other appliances for indoor home use, and many more for use in RVs, and they are easily plummed into the house.
As for rodents, store everything in old refrigerators or chest-type freezers. We even use old 20- and 40-mm ammo cans, and the steel barrels are a good idea, too. They can have some pieces of cedar boards put in them to keep bedding fresh, and/or desiccant to keep foods, cans especially, dry.
Foods like dry beans, rice, and wheat can be stored in 5- or 6-gal. pails and don't expire for all pracitcal purposes, especially if in mylar bags with O2 absorbers in them. Good for storage for 20-30 years. Keep a grinder to make flour from the wheat as you need it as the wheat stores much longer than the flour will. #10 cans are good, too, and can be used up faster if opened, while the bigger pails can be resealed. Canning jars and lids, quart or half gallon or gallon, are good for leftovers, and to store matches, medicines, etc. in to prevent moisture or rodent damage.
For air intakes, put some old truck air filters on the intake openings. The filters will keep out insects and other crawlies, and clean the air, too.
Finally, get a couple of cats, male and female, and leave them there. They'll quickly figure out how to support themselves, and do ok unless coyotes or owls get them.
The Following User Says Thank You to EdD270 For This Useful Post:
Old 08-21-2010, 07:02 PM
G57's Avatar
G57 G57 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 30
Thanks: 163
Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
Default

How much of your guns and ammo do you have at home vs. at your camp? I have a similar situation and am looking at a 50/50 split...any recommendations?
Old 08-21-2010, 07:08 PM
dcliffhanger dcliffhanger is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: north KY. the center of the universe
Posts: 1,733
Thanks: 15
Thanked 2,039 Times in 857 Posts
Default

Reguarding your "Freeze Factor", I installed a drain in the water line at the lowest possible point and drain my entire field.

My freeze issue is in the P-traps and drains. Those points freeze, then split and water floods when you drain the sink, tub. It floods the crawl space and sometimes you do not know it untill damage is done. I have not found a solution to this problem except not to allow it to freeze. Anti freeze is one solution, but kills your septic system.

Perhaps some RV solution would be the answer.

I think I just solved my problem.
Old 08-21-2010, 07:54 PM
kev's Avatar
kev kev is offline
Forum Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Texas
Age: 46
Posts: 14,703
Thanks: 1,617
Thanked 31,601 Times in 6,682 Posts
Default bug out location

Quote:
Originally Posted by G57 View Post
How much of your guns and ammo do you have at home vs. at your camp?
I would rather not discuss firearms

Ammo - as much as I can spare.
100 - 120 rounds of 280/7mm express, which is my primary deer rifle
30-30 - several boxes
22 long rifle - 1,500 - 2,000 rounds,,, maybe more
7.62x39 - for ak47 and sks - several hundred rounds
223 - several hundred rounds
30-06 - several hundred rounds
12 and 20 gauge shotgun, a few boxes
various pistol calibers - lots of them

I feel no need to go into exact details of firearms or ammo storage. I would rather people not know what I have or where its at.
__________________
Our survival gear Section

If you have a question about the forum, please post it in this section.
General questions sent through private messages will be ignored.
The Following User Says Thank You to kev For This Useful Post:
Old 08-21-2010, 10:05 PM
msc msc is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: western new york state
Posts: 647
Thanks: 484
Thanked 395 Times in 238 Posts
Default

Kev, thanks for the great post.

I have two cabins, both built on poles three feet off the ground. They are rough, no electricity, running water. One is at one of the ponds, the other at one of the creeks. Each has a lean-to (mostly used for the horses), a small pen, a garden, an outside shower and a potty facility. Each cabin is about <1/2 mile from each other. One has a gravel road, the other a dirt field road. They are used all year-round.

I keep canned food and water in them in the warm weather, but remove it otherwise. I have about 9a of ponds (3 ponds), but I still keep bottled water. I do keep some dry food up there, in a steel drum inside each cabin. Since there is no refridgeration, whoever wants meat, etc. for more than one day brings a cooler/ice. If I'm riding up, I will pack in a frozen steak or two.

I wrapped the support poles in sheet metal to do what I could to ward off mice. I also used aluminum flyscreen along the outside bottom (underneath where the poles are) and the inside edges of the flooring and I have never seen any evidence of rodents (both cabins are about 15 years old now, IIRC).
I wasn't sure how it would work out, and I wanted to use things I had laying around, but it has worked well so far. They are insulated, have salvaged windows, and a small covered porch on the end with a railing. They're not very pretty, but they are functional and warm/dry inside.

For heat, each cabin has a wood stove and 1-2 cords of wood at any given time. I also have a Buddy Heater and propane stored (quicker to get going).
Each has a fire ring, also. I have 'camp seating' at each one (fallen tree shaped up for a bit of comfort), and a couple lawn chairs for older family members who need back support.

I keep some bedding up there, and some clothing, towels, etc., in space bags inside a tack trunk that doubles as a coffee table. For beds, I have a couple cots, an old stow-away bed and a sofa-bed and sofa between the two of them. I worried at first about the sofas turning into mouse nests, but so far, that has not been the case, and I used to deflate, roll up and store (a real pain) the foam cot pads inside another trunk kept under the cabins (on a gravel 'pad'). Now I just leave everything on the beds.

I keep a basic set of cooking utensils, plastic dishes, a good first-aid kit (human and horse/dog), and bathing/cleaning equipment. I also have a 10 x 10 canopy kept under each cabin for additional shelter, cooking outside in the rain, etc. I bought each one at a town-wide yardsale for $15 each. One of them even came with 'squiter netting.

Most everything has been built, furnished and supplied from cull bins, the farm, and the thrift stores.
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bug out location, bug out plans, deer camp, eotwawki, remote camp, rural area



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maintaining Rifles And Pistols Without Cleaning Instruments Doom Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 55 07-23-2010 06:09 AM
Maintaining Your Boots PinkPanther Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 10 10-15-2009 03:02 PM
Thank You Kev for starting/maintaining this site FrightenedWolfe General Discussion 6 08-25-2009 09:46 PM
Maintaining Situation Awareness in a sleep deprived state Missionary Joshua Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 15 06-26-2009 08:39 AM
Maintaining the temple? alergyfree Religious Discussion 23 03-19-2009 10:14 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net