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67K views 44 replies 37 participants last post by  HorseSoldier 
#1 · (Edited)
This is a basic description of 2 different MOLLE packs and the medium Alice backpack.

The packs that were used for this video include:

Large MOLLE pack with internal sleep system compartment - digital camo, internal sleep system compartment, plastic frame, no external pouches or internal pouches, map case in top flap.

One of the things that I really liked about the large molle is how much webbing it has. The pack also has webbing on the bottom of the pack to strap a sleeping bag, tent, tarp or anything else.

One of the things that I did not like about the large molle - it did not have a radio pouch inside the pack like the alice pack does. Nor does the pack have pouches on the outside of the pack. The plastic frame is also a draw back. Nor do I like having to use the pack with a frame - if the frame breaks your just out of luck.


MOLLE with external sleep system - desert camo, external sleep system compartment, claymore pouch on outside, no internal pouches or compartments, plastic frame, map case in top flap - but has plastic on one side of the map case so you can see the map without having to take the map out.

Overall, I view this pack as the least flexible - it has only a few webbing around the pack, none that wrap around the entire pack, and no webbing on the bottom of the pack. has very little webbing on it, no pouch on the inside and only one pouch on the outside of the pack.

Medium ALICE pack - this has been one of my main camping packs for about 14 - 16 years, aluminum frame made of tubing and flat bar, 3 outside pouches, 1 pouch on the inside of the pack, map case in top flap - but looks like its smaller then the top flaps of the molle packs.

The Medium Alice pack has 3 outside pouches - which are just the right size for storing rain gear and a 1 pound bottle of propane for a stove. There is also webbing that runs the circumference of the pack, which makes attaching more pouches easy.

One of the reasons why I like the alice pack - its big enough to bring what I need, with enough room to bring what I do not need.






The large alice was not included in this line up because it was not brought on the camping trip. Besides not being brought, the large alice pack has been pretty much phased out of my pack list. When loaded, the large alice pack extends away from my body too much and makes me lean forward too much.
 
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#6 ·
Many people like to point out the convenance features the packs are missing, what folks need to remember these packs, both the A.L.I.C.E. and the M.O.L.L.E., are military load bearing equipment. They were designed to meet the basic needs of troops in the field not your average weekend hiker with a big box store twenty kilometers down range.

I have over 12 years experience humping an A.L.I.C.E. pack. The A.L.I.C.E. pack will hold enough gear, when properly packed, to sustain an individual for an period of time with an established front line and more static fighting such as was seen in WWII. It is an all a round good ruck with solid metal hardware.

The M.O.L.L.E. rucksack was designed to be more mission/unit/individual adaptable, hense the ladder webbing system for adding various pouches. This design came from lessons learned during Korea and Vietnam where there were more dynamic lines of fighting and units had to be more mobile. Again a good ruck when packed properly. It's adaptablility can comtribute to various failures. Because it is so adaptable, troops have been know to over load the pack which can cause the polymer frame to crack and break. Another point to keep in mind is the hardware which holds the ruck together is many plastic buckles. Some ealier models also had zippers which had a tendency to fail when overstuffed rendering the pack unserviceable.

Please note that M.O.L.L.E. pack's shoulder straps and waist belts can be adapted to work with the A.L.I.C.E. ruck making a more comfortable experience when humping for a few miles with a combat load.
 
#26 ·
Exactly .. I just don't get why so many guys think a Molle and Alice packs are more suitable for BOB's. I would think that a great quality pack, such as Osprey, Gregory which are designed for hiking, travel with superior suspension frames and belts faar exceed the military packs for BOB. They are lighter weight allowing the trekker to carry more food, water and gear. I kinda think it's the *camo* itself that gets the guys to steer this way instead of the functionality and practicality.

Gotta add .. my Osprey Ariel has a lifetime guarantee covering tears, thread wear broken snaps and zippers ... The mens bag is the Osprey Aether.
 
#8 ·
Nice video man...I gotta add, I love the standard A.L.I.C.E. pack. I've used it for years. I actually still have the same pack my dad gave to me when I was 11. Thats same pack is the one he was issued when he was in he infantry in the late 80's early 90's. It's never broken or torn and I still use it to this day.

However,
Since I started getting serious about my trips to the wilderness that I take regularly, I have switched to the MOLLE system for long trips (upwards of 7 days). I did this because as my gear loadout has grown, so has my demand for space. I spent a lot of time experimenting with internal frame packs and found that you just cannot beat the capacity of a good external frame. I simply use the copious amount of webbing on the outside of the MOLLE to attach 3 larger pouches I use for tools, water, and food. I also love the fact that you can access the sleep system compartment from the outside of the pack.

The MOLLE distributes the weight well and is easy to configure for a guy my build which is helpful because my pack weight on long trips is upwards of 45 lbs. That being said, for weekend trips in the warmer seasons, I'll always have my good old ALICE pack standing by.

Also, for you fellow MOLLE users out there, I have found that if you don't zip the sleep system compartment divider on the inside of the pack, the potential space inside increases considerably.

Happy camping. :cool:
 
#10 ·
I guess you could say that...MOLLE is meant to be more of a modular system. The webbing on MOLLE gear allows for more modularity in that all the gear that is truly MOLLE all attaches to your pack, vest, etc. in the same way.

Here is a typical set of ALICE clips:


And a typical MOLLE attachment:
 
#12 ·
One thing to remember about the molle, don't get an early one. The plastic used on the buckles was substandard, and they broke. I don't know if you can tell the difference unless you send the buckle to be destructively tested. I know that there are a lot of the early buckles still in the system.
A couple of other notes:
The Alice pack was designed assuming you had your 782 gear as well.
782 gear is a cartridge belt with an H or Y shoulder harness. Canteens, ammunition, a first aid kit, plus a meal are carried with your 782 gear. That fees up a lot of space in the alice pack. The other thing I was going to say is that all canteen pouches have a little external pouch for water purification tablets.
 
#14 ·
I am an ALICE gear guy, grew up with it used it from the time I was 17 (late 80's) up until we transitioned to MOLLE in the early 00's.

My large ALICE is a great pack it holds everything that I need it to and has never failed to perform.

My personal 782 gear is all ALICE gear, rugged and proven.

The only advantage of the MOLLE gear that I appreciate is being able to reconfigure it for mission specific loadouts.
 
#16 ·
I currently am stationed in Hawaii and found a little Korean Ma and Pa sewing shop that modifies the old LC-1 A.L.I.C.E packs into a MOLLE hybrid. you can buy one already made or bring in your old ruck to be modified for $50 dollars cheaper. They take 2 days to be modified. They add a sleeping bag compartment on the bottom and remove all of the outer pockets and put in bigger ones. Also they put in two long compartments on the sides and a large upper compartment on the top of the old map pouch. They only use high grade cordura nylon in several colors and Patterns. they replace the old snap style fasteners with modern buckles, and heavy duty zippers. The stiching is excellent. and they do free repairs. I will post some pictures soon. It is basically the old ALICE main compartment with a pimped out modern exterior.
 
#18 ·
The molle sustainment pouches are really big. I am not sure if they will fit or not. I will try to remember to check when I get home tonight. I have both packs and my molle pack has the sustainment pouches so I will see if they will fit on one of my medium ALICE packs (I'm a rucksack/backpack hoarder. It really is a sickness ;) )
 
#21 ·
Great post. I'm about halfway through the "Hellcat" mod on a medium ALICE for my BOB. I have everything attached just need to load it up and start adjusting and fine tuning.

What attracted me to the ALICE was the price, adaptability and durability. I also have the web belt with Y suspenders for my 2 Qt. canteen, M12 holster, ammo pouches and knife. I have to confess I'm a "gear head" and it's hard to resist some of the stuff I see available to hang off the ALICE and Molle systems but I'm working really hard to only buy what I really need vs. what I "think" I need. Don't ask how that's worked for me. :eek::
 
#22 ·
I personally run a Camelbak BFM and I would recommend it to anybody. The ALICE is okay, however, I found it easier to organize my gear utilizing the Camelbak. They designed the pack with four main pouches with organizational dividers in the two main pouches; so you could actually pack gear instead of just tossing it into the ALICE.
 
#40 ·
I second that. I carried a BFM in Afghanistan and liked it a lot. My old one is sitting in my garage right now. It has shrapnel holes all in it from when I got wounded, so I just can't quite stand to throw it away. Was a great pack all around. Comfortable and easy to organize.
 
#23 ·
I was wondering about combining ALICE and MOLLE components(Hellcat is a great name), thanks for such a great link to a descriptive picture play-by-play how-to. I'm on the hunt for a new pack system (in the process of really upgrading my BOB). What attracts me to the Medium ALICE is the versatility of being able to use it with or without the frame. But if I go with the ALICE pack I would definitely want to create a better padded hybrid with the MOLLE straps. Does anyone know if the medium ALICE can be used with MOLLE straps WITHOUT the frame?
Thanks!
 
#24 ·
Does anyone know if the medium ALICE can be used with MOLLE straps WITHOUT the frame?
Thanks!
Hi there
No it can't.

The Molle ll straps have 7 attachment straps & buckles at the top. There is a padded back piece that folds down, and the webbing to the rear of this buckles to the side of the frame. There are 4 of these on the back of the padding,( for my body length I can only attach two of them), plus two load lifters that attach at the top to the frame, like the original Alice straps.
Finally to support the weight you have a wide webbing belt that goes down the rear of the frame.
Personally I don't like the original metal Alice frame. The DEI 1606AC frame in plastic is far better, and allows the kidney belt and MSS carrier to be fitted in a more secure way.
cheers
Gareth
 
#28 ·
If you're using a stock standard pack and complaining about missing features then you are doing it wrong. You should be modifying your gear to suit your needs. A molle pack with no external pouches can easily be fitted with molle pouches. No molle attachment system on your pack? Then sew pouches on. If you dont have quick release straps on your pack, sew some quality fastex clips on. I'm against hanging/tying stuff to the outside of your pack as thats how things get torn off and lost. I mean if you wanted to hang stuff off, why bother having a pack, just have a frame and tie stuff off that

As for frames, I've used a steel ALICE frame, a stock standard aluminium ALICE frame and a plastic frame. None of the frames would break under any carry load so there's 1 less thing to worry about.
 
#30 ·
a frame comparison

A bit ago I was looking for some info on the difference between various frames. While this is mainly comparing MOLLE frame generations against one another, at the end of the post it includes the results of a durability test between a MOLLE Gen-IV frame and an ALICE frame that made me think twice about the money I was about to invest in a new pack system. While you may not be planning on dropping your pack with a 32 fps impact on concrete with a 120 lb load anytime soon, if you want a good investment for your money the MOLLE Gen-4 is going to offer you durability and a higher level of comfort. If you're dead set on the ALICE ruck, I've seen members of survivalistboards rig up an ALICE ruck on a MOLLE frame.

Regards,
Heathcliff
 
#31 ·
The plastic MOLLE frame sucks, I have broken several of them one of them broke just assembling the pack, the others under load and in the field that plastic frame is trash and the worst part of the Molle ruck system.

To me under load the Alice felt more stable and sturdier.

The best of both worlds is the Alice pack with the Molle straps and pads (Hellcat mod).
If you are truly dedicated you can send your Alice ruck to Tactical Tailor for the Malice pack mods and get Molle panels and such added to it.

I still use the large Alice.
 
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#35 ·
Came across this thread searchin for Hellcat mods to give to a friend as a reference. Figure its not too old to be a necromancer thread.

Alice vs Molle
Personally I prefer the Alice. My unit (35th Sig) was one of the test beds for MOLLE. 1/2 of us got MOLLE, the other 1/2 got to keep Alice. All I can say is, if you go molle, do not, do NOT, DO NOT!, get a Gen I or II frame. Those things shatter and throw your gear all over the place. Those of us who got to keep our Alice were much hated by the others in the unit :D:.
Also, the molle pack is really easy to overload. Had an old buddy who reclassed infrantry after I got out. Gettin' ready for deployment with the newer ACU molle packs, he loaded it up with everything, sat down, strapped it on, and took 2 of us to help him off the ground. Whole thing is just way too big to be practical.

Hellcattin'
I like the medium for this. Large alice just stuck way too far out back and threw my balance off ruckin, even unmodified. Great thing about the hellcat with medium is you can build up and down to keep weight distro good and still keep it from stickin' up over your head like a modern external frame.
Now, my unit always jumped alice frame, never modded with ramflex, but never had a problem. I figure that's fine durability for me in a more civilian function. The only things I've done different from the standard hellcat are, tactical taylor straps and kidney pads, a molle hydration carrier on one side, and a sustainment pouch on the other.
If I cinch the straps down right, even though the frame is a lil short for my build, I can do jumpin jacks and pushups with 50lbs in it without the frame ever movin enough to throw my balance off and I've tested movin at a lot of awkward angles(runnin, jumpin, standin on 1 leg with my body cocked as far to the side as I could get it,etc,etc).

Pics of my setup:



With this and my pistol belt, I'd have no problem goin 7-10 days without resupply. YMMV.

Its a bit heavy, pack unloaded is around 8.3lbs. I thought about goin to Kelty Trekker 3950, cuttin the frame and remounting the pack lower(would save 3.5lbs on pack weight alone) but I can't bring myself to give up the bomb proof durability of Alice. I could see the color of my finger when pressed up against the inside of the kelty pack. Not very confidence inspiring. Considering I spend most of my time in the hot, humid south, you couldn't pay me to rock an internal frame pack (besides my light camelbak daypack). I'd sweat to death. Its seems to be slim pickins these days for external frames, but I really think they're more suited to this environment.

Honestly, for the price, I wouldn't trade my Frankenstein pack for nuthin'. Ol' Alice has never let me down. Not like Molle has too many of my brothers. Hellcat is the way to go IMHO. The best of both worlds and all the modularity you desire, if you know how to tweak it right.
 
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