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Old 05-19-2010, 11:01 PM
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Pierpont Pierpont is offline
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Default 7.62x39 HP v.s FMJ ballistics



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I've found that, atleast the Brown bear FMJ and HP 123gr., both seem to have the same point of impact on paper at 100 yards. My question is, when put up against soft armor, will the hollow points have less penetration ability?

The reason I'm asking is because my AK's are sighted in with Brown Bear 123gr. I have the money to buy 500 rounds now (half to stalk up on and half to practice with), but can't get my hands on any FMJ. Just HP.

Also, off my main topic and not as important;
What type of .22LR would you consider for stocking up on (for both an automatic, a revolver and a couple bolt actions) that is decent ammo for the price?
Old 05-19-2010, 11:13 PM
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In Gelatin, I have read that, the HPs behave basically just like FMJs. Dont know about soft armor. Remember I just read this.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:12 AM
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Neither one of them are going to have any trouble going through soft armor. But most of the HPs won't expand or fragment in flesh either. The Wolf Military Classic HP is the only one that I know will. That and the now impossible to find Silver Bear "Nipple Effect" ammo. That stuff was amazingly accurate and supposedly fragmented great. I never got to test that part though. I know it did reduce group size by 1/3 in every 7.62x39 gun I shot it in.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:23 PM
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I have done some of my own ballistics testing with 7.62x39. All HP acts in the same manner as FMJ, including wolf military classic. To produce good ballistic results, you are better off buying hunting grade 7.62x39. I mainly purchase hornady V-max for my stock. I also buy sellier and bellot hunting soft point ammunition. I have yet to take a deer with 7.62x39. However, I have taken several coyotes with 7.62x39 V-max and sellier and FMJ to compare. The v-max and sellier porduce much wider exit wounds and tissue brusing than FMJ. My BOB is stuffed with sellier and bellot brass cased soft points. I prefer the v-max, however, I do like the option of having spent brass I can reload. Hornady sells the V-max bullets alone too. They make excellent groups in my yugo SKS herd.

Thre best FMJ stuff out there is the yugoslavian brass cased stuff. They are made with lead and are designed slightly defferent in shape to produce a quicker yaw than other designs. However, the ammunition is corrosive and I refuse to use it because of that. I wouldn't be concerned about penetrating body armor and what bullet you choose. Most armor out there only stops medium powered handgun rounds.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Im.../RussianWP.jpg

I find CCI standard velocity bricks to be the best choice for me. They are slower than the HP and hyper velocity stuff. However, they are noticeable quieter when fired from my bolt action 22lr rifles. Almost subsonic noise levels. I suggest you stay with 40gr solid bullets. The bullet produces more substantial damage in larger game if the bullet is left intact. Also, hollow points are generally less accurate than solid ammunition.

My 2nd affordable choice behind the $25 per 500 round pack of CCI standard velocity is either Blazer CCI or American Eagle red box; both in 40gr solid.

Some folks will advise you to get hyper velocity rounds and such. However, your best bet it to find an ammunition that is accurate will all your 22lr rifles and has little to no cycling issues with the semi-autos. Stick with the same ammo. Velocity has a big impact on trajectory. There is easily a 3-4" difference in vertical drop between common 22lr ammo types at 100 yards.
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
I have done some of my own ballistics testing with 7.62x39. All HP acts in the same manner as FMJ, including wolf military classic.
Military Classic using the 8N3 bullet, or whatever it's called, will fragment. I don't know when they started using that bullet, so maybe the older versions don't do it. I believe it was the next step up from the fragmenting bullet that Silver Bear used to use in their "nipple effect" ammo. I sure miss that ammo. It was more accurate than any imported 7.62x39 ammo I've seen since. I only have a couple cases left, so I'm not shooting any more of it.

Even their softpoints don't perform particularly well though. It's like they design a bullet aesthetically and never spend any engineering effort on effectiveness. Though I haven't tested the 154 gr. softpoints enough to make that statement. I guess I need to, because I prefer them since the "nipple effect" ammo isn't available anymore.
Old 05-21-2010, 10:15 PM
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My Marlins and I prefer Winchester Super X solid points.
Old 05-21-2010, 11:34 PM
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I had occasion to test the 154 grain Wolf brand ammo from a romanian AK I built up from parts for a friend. I was IMPRESSED with the accuracy of the heavier round. It goes without saying functioning was 100%, but in the past many factory AK's deliver mediocre accuracy with 123-125 grain ammo. I was therefore surprised to find this generic Romanian underfolder parts kit built up using a screw-built receiver was so pinpoint accurate with the heavy bullet load.
Old 05-22-2010, 02:01 PM
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I find the 154s to be more accurate also. Almost up to the "nipple effect" ammo's accuracy. I'd sure like to see some reliable information on it's expansion and penetration. I'm sceptical, since they can't seem to make an expanding bullet that works properly.
Old 05-22-2010, 11:54 PM
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here the nice thing about the 7.62.mm-x-39mm cal round ..do you know that ruger puts out a nice little bolt action carbine rifle with 20 inch barrel and stock ..you put a good scope on that weapon and you have a nice little hunting rifle for deer and hog sized game in your ao ..
Old 05-24-2010, 03:00 PM
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My ballistic testing is a bit crude. Mostly water jugs and shooting coyotes. I have used the 154gr wolf on coyote. I doesn't really expand. The front tip mushrooms to about 75% of the bullet diameter. This does help to displace energy in flesh better than a smooth profile front tip.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:19 PM
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A friend of mine on the SKS board killed a fairly good size deer a couple years ago using the Wolf 154 gr. SP he shot the deer at about 80 yds. Bullet hit between the front legs and logged in the rear hind quarter on the opposite side,here is the recovered bullet. As far as he could determine it struck no bone.

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Old 05-25-2010, 04:22 PM
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That's what gripes me about combloc soft points. None of them are designed very well. They either "sorta expand", don't expand at all, or shatter and fragment. Geez, it's not that hard to design an expanding bullet. They just won't put any effort into it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
That's what gripes me about combloc soft points. None of them are designed very well. They either "sorta expand", don't expand at all, or shatter and fragment. Geez, it's not that hard to design an expanding bullet. They just won't put any effort into it.
Also, you shoot too much of that stuff and you are risking your gun's health. Brown Bear has known problems.....
Old 05-25-2010, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lazycatxd View Post
Also, you shoot too much of that stuff and you are risking your gun's health. Brown Bear has known problems.....
such as? kus i dont know about them...
Old 05-27-2010, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
That's what gripes me about combloc soft points. None of them are designed very well. They either "sorta expand", don't expand at all, or shatter and fragment. Geez, it's not that hard to design an expanding bullet. They just won't put any effort into it.
No one is allowed to hunt with them, and they frown on the hps and fragmentation.

While I think the 5.45 has better ballistics the FMJ's are pretty damn amazing. Good HP's (american)are devestating as hell usually. Whichever you shoot the wounds should be pretty decent. Some better then others, but they don't have the yaw issues the 5.56 M855 (not the rest of the 5.56 its not a debate here calm down) has had.
Old 05-27-2010, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarksInnerDemon View Post
No one is allowed to hunt with them, and they frown on the hps and fragmentation.

While I think the 5.45 has better ballistics the FMJ's are pretty damn amazing. Good HP's (american)are devestating as hell usually. Whichever you shoot the wounds should be pretty decent. Some better then others, but they don't have the yaw issues the 5.56 M855 (not the rest of the 5.56 its not a debate here calm down) has had.
I was under the impression that "yawing" and fragmenting at the cannelure was intentional or rather part of what makes it "effective"?
Old 05-27-2010, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojurn87 View Post
I was under the impression that "yawing" and fragmenting at the cannelure was intentional or rather part of what makes it "effective"?
CORRECTION
Sorry missed the issue you were talking about and you highligheted it. THe YAW problem with the M855 is in the flight not in the body. The round is supposed to YAW then stabalize in flight, hit the target, destabalize. The M855 has a issue of staying destabalized or continuing to YAW, then stabalizing in the body making a nice clean 22 through and through. This isn't a issue with other grains, and round designs.
END CORRECTION

From my vaguest understanding, its not supposed to intensionally be designed to fragment , yawing is great/legal. Don't quote me on the fragmentation, but I am pretty sure thats the deal. Anyone who can reconfirm this please do I have a headache and can't think.

For Joe Civilian a rifle round that fragments is legal. Effective fragmentation is probably more of the issue. Glaser rounds for instance blow all there energy to early and are less effective then many of the yaw rounds. These rounds maybe loose much of its wound ability from a shot through a heavy jacket. Where some of the 5.56 that fragment routinely at a good depth and have great energy vs penetration.
Old 05-27-2010, 10:37 PM
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Personally, I don't want anything that fragments. Give me a properly designed softpoint that expands, holds together and penetrates, any time. But finding such a beast for the 7.62x39 is hard unless you load your own, or pay big money. I handload the cartridge, but still shoot a lot of Wolf and other low grade crap simply because it's cheap. I guess I should just make the commitment to the cartridge and switch into full blown reloading for it.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lazycatxd View Post
Also, you shoot too much of that stuff and you are risking your gun's health. Brown Bear has known problems.....

What problems are you talking about?
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:52 PM
jason1221 jason1221 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierpont View Post
I've found that, atleast the Brown bear FMJ and HP 123gr., both seem to have the same point of impact on paper at 100 yards. My question is, when put up against soft armor, will the hollow points have less penetration ability?

The reason I'm asking is because my AK's are sighted in with Brown Bear 123gr. I have the money to buy 500 rounds now (half to stalk up on and half to practice with), but can't get my hands on any FMJ. Just HP.

Also, off my main topic and not as important;
What type of .22LR would you consider for stocking up on (for both an automatic, a revolver and a couple bolt actions) that is decent ammo for the price?
I buy monarch from academy sports 4.99 for 20.
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