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Old 04-07-2010, 08:14 PM
glockster glockster is offline
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Post 6.8SPC vs. 5.56/.223



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Who here has experience with the 6.8SPC and can shed some light as to the better caliber? I would like for this to be an all around caliber to be used for defense, plinking,SHTF, and putting meat on the table as well. i'M lookinginto getting a STAG 5H upper to go with a lower I already have. Any ideas, suggestions or anything I've overlooked would be appreciated. Don't worry,I don't bruise easily either.
Old 04-07-2010, 08:42 PM
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I hope to pick up a 6.8 before hunting season this year. I'm on the hunt for an AR in 5.56 now, and plan on picking up a 6.8 upper early fall. From what I've read I believe it'll be a good little whitetail round.
Old 04-07-2010, 08:55 PM
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Take a look at the 6.5 Grendel. It's a great round.
Check out this thread:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...hlight=grendel
and this:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:09 PM
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For a SHTF round, you will be better served by the 5.56 due to price and availability of ammo.

6.8spc is supposed to be a hard-hitting round but it sacrifices range. 5.56 offers accuracy out to 600 meters whereas the 6.8 starts to drop signifcantly past 250 meters.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:40 PM
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It's a .270 short chopped off to fit in a 5.56 mag

Why not just shoot a heavier .223 like 75 or 80 grain; they make barrels optimized for longer rounds like 1/7 twist
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:56 PM
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.223 is considered marginal for deer. Others maintain its plenty fine. If deer is the biggest ou plan for, either will do.

If you go for anything bigger though, the 6.8 is a lot more versatile. Better for bear, elk, etc. Still not ideal, but definitely better.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:23 PM
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.223 is fine with good shot placement. I would consider a 6.8 spc upper for a .223 mainly IF you want and AR to be a better deer hunting rifle with-in the range mentioned. Consider it a .30-30 conversion for the AR.

I know someone who is very successful hunter. His caliber of choice is 22-250, which isn;t that far ahead of .223.

.223 and 7.62x39 both make decent deer rounds, you just have to buy the right style or weight of bullet.

Try an AR on coyotes. IF you like what you see in wound profiles, then go deer hunting with it.

6.8 ain't bad, just a bit pricey IF you don't reload.
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:44 PM
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I shoot a 6.8 SPC II. The chamber is different in the 6.8 SPCII as it is differen than the original SAAMI 6.8mm SPC that Remington mistakenly sent to SAAMI for record. The original has a 0.050" leade in the neck/chamber area, where the SPC II is more relaxed and has a longer leade of 0.100" It makes a difference in how much pressure the round can handle vs the amount of velocity of the round. I have shot several targets at 100 yards under 1" MOA with 110 grain bullets, that deliver nearly 80% of the terminal kenetic energy as a .308 (7.62 x 51NATO) with about half the recoil of the .308.

What stands out about the 6.8 SPC II is that even in a shorter barrel it gives decent terminal velocities and knock down compared to same short barreled 5.56 NATO chambered carbines. They shoot plenty of wild hogs and white tail deer with the 6.8 SPC, and it far outdistances the 5.56 in terminal performance.

For a SHTF AR, it has awesome capability, with stopping power, longer harder hitting bullets and bullets that have the ability to go through barriers and kill something on the other side. I have handloaded my Rock River Arms 6.8 SPC II 16" barrel 1:10 twist with powder to get it up at 2780 fps average with a 110 grain sp bullet. I have also seen that Barnes has come out with a new 95 gr TSX bullet that expands reliably down to 1200 fps. Which makes the performance really extended on this rifle. Just a little over the size of the standard 5.56 NATO in size you can carry a lot of ammo and put a lot heavier bullet down range and very accurately as well.
I put an Adams Arms Piston on mine as I like the reliability and cleanliness of the piston system. All you need to do to go to 6.8 SPC II is buy a barrel, 6.8 SPC bolt and change magazine to 6.8 SPC. All the rest just fits right in place, same lower, same carrier, same upper receiver. In fact, if you have a .223 or 5.56 NATO barrel, simply take off the front gas block/sight, unscrew the barrel bolt, take out the barrel put in the new 6.8 SPC II barrel, replace the bolt with the 6.8 bolt for the carrier, replace the same front sight/gas block, along with the gas tube and your in business.

My 6.8 SPC II.


Check out the forums for the 6.8 SPC at
http://68forums.com/forums/index.php

And this article about the 6.8 SPC here: http://www.frfrogspad.com/68spc.htm

A LOT more info that what I really need to post here.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:45 PM
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i did some research before i bought an LWRCI m6a3 in 5.56 nato. from my understanding, the 5.56 is more a psychological gun meaning that it's ballistic is intended to wound the opposition. why? because it takes more resources to care for a wounded person than a dead person, so basically win the war by depleting the opposition resources. on the hunting front, i understand you will need take down power, in which case you need a higher caliber rifle. hunting wise, it also depend where you place the shot and your acceptable margin of error. Because i'm in an urban area, for SHTF scenario, a short barrel rifle such as a LWRCI PSD would be perfect with a short barrel 12-gauge shotgun and a 9mm semi auto handgun. so it depends on your terrain and environment.
Old 04-09-2010, 07:05 PM
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I much prefer the 6.8, after shooting a large number of critters with the .22 caliber wonders.

You can improve the .223 all you want, quicker twists, heavier bullets, better constructed bullets but you'll never make it a bigger heavier bullet.

And in many places the .22 calibers aren't legal for hunting game animals with. Around here, the .24 bore is the beginning of the legal calibers. And what can I say, I'm not comfortable using something that's not legal for deer to defend my family and yours with.

Pretty much anytime you hit something with a bigger bullet, you get a better effect. Be it in the hunting fields, defensive shooting or targets.
The bigger hole scores better on targets.
The bigger hole lets more blood out and air in for hunting and defensive shooting.

Mass=Retained energy.
I hit you with a baseball going 40 mph and you're going to feel it.
I hit you with a bowling ball going 40 mph and you're gonna hurt.

I'd convert our entire department to the 6.8 if I could.
Not that I'd give up my .308, but for a carbine (AR) the 6.8 is great.

It's probably the best compromise round for the AR out there.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:14 PM
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I have built my own AR's in 223 and 6.8 I am impressed with the 6.8 spc. As price for the 6.8 ammo is coming down it is looking more and more as my primary weapon down the road. (especially since I reload)

Cartridge Muzzle velocity 200 yards drop 200 yards velocity 400 yards drop 400 yards velocity
.223 55gr M193 3073 fps 2.2 inches 2353 fps 27.8 inches 1743 fps
.223 77gr OTM 2679 fps 3.3 inches 2216 fps 32.7 inches 1810 fps
6.8 SPC 115gr SMK 2650 fps 3.5 inches 2143 fps 35.4 inches 1677 fps
6.8 SPC 110gr V-MAX 2650 fps 3.3 inches 2208 fps 31.1 inches 1811 fps
7.62x39mm 2300 fps 3.3 inches 1787 fps 53.8 inches 1324 fps
.308 168gr SMK 2600 fps 3.4 inches 2235 fps 32.3 inches 1891 fps


"The 6.8 mm Remington SPC was designed to perform better in short barreled CQB rifles after diminished performance from the 5.56 NATO when the AR15 was changed from the rifle configuration to the current M4 carbine. The 6.8 SPC delivers 44% greater energy than the 5.56 mm NATO (M4 configuration) at 100-300 meters. The 6.8mm SPC is ballistically inferior to the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge; however, it has far less recoil, is considerably more controllable in rapid fire, and much lighter, allowing operators to carry more ammunition than would otherwise be possible with the larger caliber round. The 6.8 mm generates around 1,759 ft·lbf (2385 J) of muzzle energy with a 115 grain bullet. In comparison, the 5.56x45mm round (which the 6.8 is designed to replace) generates around 1325 ft-lbf (1,796 J) with a 62 grain bullet, giving the 6.8mm a terminal ballistic advantage over the 5.56mm of 434 ft-Ibf (or 589 J). In recent developments (the period 2004-2008) the performance of the 6.8SPC has been increased by approximately 200 ft/s by the work of one ammo manufacturer and a few custom rifle builders using the correct chamber and barrel specifications. The velocities obtained now from an 8" barrel are equal to what a 16" barrel was producing 4 years ago and the 16" barrel velocities are equal to what a 24" barrel produced 4 years ago using the data below. By increasing the velocity of the ammo 200 ft/s the range of terminal effectiveness has been increased approximately 100 yards or an 8" barrel now has the same effective range as a 16" barrel had in 2004 as the 6.8 loses apx 25ft/s/inch. -SSA website and 6.8 Performance test verified[9].

It should be noted that there are 2 standardized, but different, chambers for the 6.8 SPC which yield different results. Only the rifles chambered with the newer specified chamber and the slower barreling twist rate can safely use the higher powered/higher pressure ammunition. All other rifles should only be used with the standard cartridge pressure loadings."
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:39 AM
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6.5mm Creedmoor(sp?)and 6.8mm are good things, too and here is why; more choices, the more likely overall rifle prices
in calibers .25 to .28 are likely to drop. That's good for all of us.

6.5mm Creedmoor and 6.8mm, and they are evolving beyond the AR gas tube platform; this fact(s) mean that said calibers are here
to stay. I'd love to get a Mini14 in 6.8mm, too. I hope JSP rounds become available for said calibers , too; and this from as many different companies as possible, also.
Old 04-10-2010, 07:58 AM
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I think the 6.8 is probably the best idea to come along in a quite a while, however it's not yet very practical for civilian use considering the damage a 55-69 grain .223 soft point can do. That in addition to the fact that 6.8 brass actually costs more than .308 brass. If a guy feels he needs more than the .223 can provide, it would be cheaper to go with an AR-10. If ammunition and reloading component prices came down and availability came up, I'd be all over the 6.8.
Old 04-10-2010, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
.223 is fine with good shot placement. I would consider a 6.8 spc upper for a .223 mainly IF you want and AR to be a better deer hunting rifle with-in the range mentioned. Consider it a .30-30 conversion for the AR.

I know someone who is very successful hunter. His caliber of choice is 22-250, which isn;t that far ahead of .223.

.223 and 7.62x39 both make decent deer rounds, you just have to buy the right style or weight of bullet.

Try an AR on coyotes. IF you like what you see in wound profiles, then go deer hunting with it.

6.8 ain't bad, just a bit pricey IF you don't reload.
I've killed a few deer with the 22-250 and one with the 223....I use the 223 all the time for turkey hunting. Here in VA 22 anything isn't allowed for deer, so my thoughts are to get a 6.8 upper to hunt with also.
Old 04-10-2010, 08:34 AM
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I like what I see in the 6.8 SPS, sooner or later I will pick one up and and the stuff to reload for it.
Old 04-11-2010, 04:35 PM
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I don't think anyone is going to argue that the 6.8/6.5 isn't a better cartridge but it is far more expensive, far less common, far more abusive to the weapon that the .223/556. If either was "the solution" to issues surrounding the .223/556 then it would already be in service. It is not in anyones permanent inventory that I know of.

The Barrett Rec 7 is the better 6.8 system I have seen so far. I have long thought the Mini-14 would be ideal as it is famously strong and reliable but Ruger hasn't put too much effort into enhancing it with testing and there will always be magazine issues.

Personally, I am going to stick with .223 and 55 FMJBT as it does what I need it to do. When I need something heavier, I break out the FAL.
Old 04-15-2010, 10:36 AM
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No expert of the 6.8 but from all the reading I have done and talking to people I would go with the 6.8 SPC II if I had to have one rifle for SHTF ... but with 2 exception ... Either I would have to have a few thousand rounds stashed or have all the reloading stuff I need to keep it going. To me thats the caliber's only downfall... lack of a ready supply of ammo at this time. If you reload you can get the price of it down a lot as well. To me out in the open of corn fields, a good combo between at 223 and 308 would be great!!!
Old 04-16-2010, 12:37 AM
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I own a RRA 6.8 spc. I have had no problems with it. But I have only put about 200 rounds through it. I reload and have dies for 6.8 but have not reloaded any as of yet. I really like the .277 caliber. But it was made famous with the 130 grain bullet. I don't know if the 6.8 will shoot it(too long?) and the data I've seen is for the 100-115 grain loads. Knowing what I know now I would look long and hard at the 6.5(.264 cal)uppers on the market as their bullets(120-140 gr)have a better BC.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:21 PM
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Shot a deer with a 6.8 back in November. It worked pretty good. Upon examination, it delivered a lot of energy on target while keeping things fairly clean
Old 04-16-2010, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritepath View Post
I've killed a few deer with the 22-250 and one with the 223....I use the 223 all the time for turkey hunting. Here in VA 22 anything isn't allowed for deer, so my thoughts are to get a 6.8 upper to hunt with also.
I know someone who is deadset on his Ar-15. However, only for hunting season; he brings out a AK-47 with cor-bon ammunition. For the price of a 6.8spc upper; you can buy an entire AK-47. 7.62x39 is much more popular than 6.8 spc.

You are completely aware that .223 will do the job just fine, but not legal in your area. IF a game officer sees you with an AR; you will get questioned. The other option is just to get a good deer hunting rifle. You may want a quick 2nd shot, but if you do your homework; you really don't need a 2nd shot.
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