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Old 10-26-2016, 08:35 AM
tooltime tooltime is online now
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I did not see anyone ask this but how far does she drive and how is the mpg to work etc for her? How often did she have to put fuel in the VW and how often will she in the Jeep? I like those old Jeeps and thought about getting one a few yrs ago but they were none the was nice. Good luck
Old 10-26-2016, 11:26 AM
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I did not see anyone ask this but how far does she drive and how is the mpg to work etc for her? How often did she have to put fuel in the VW and how often will she in the Jeep? I like those old Jeeps and thought about getting one a few yrs ago but they were none the was nice. Good luck
That was part of our discussion as the VW is so efficient. Thankfully her commute is about 8 miles each way. I warned her that the waggy is horrible on gas but she understands. We may look into doing a transmission swap for an overdrive 700r4. Gives a deeper 1st gear for easier stop amd go and the OD will help with any trips we make to wherever. Still, it will be no comparison but not paying a $460+ payment will pay for a lot of gas.

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Old 10-26-2016, 11:54 AM
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Take their deal. A guy I work with and I just had this discussion a few weeks ago. he has a Jetta Wagon.
They are offering money based on market value BEFORE the scandal and emissions fraud. Then, they are adding $4-5K on top of that figure. For him, this is about $9-10K more than what the value of the car is today.

One thing we talked about is that if you keep the car and have them repair it, who knows how many times you have to take it in and how much of a hassle that is. Also, I imagine that the efficiency that makes the TDi so great will be diminished.

So, take their offer and their money and buy something else. If you really like that car, you should be able to buy one again once all the "fixed" ones are back on the market but you take those variables out of your life in the process. You may be able to buy one for cash that is a similar vehicle and eliminate a car payment all together.
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Old 10-26-2016, 12:11 PM
DadeMurphy DadeMurphy is offline
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
So I need some advice/ideas. This is part vehicle, part financial. Before i met my wife she had purchased a 2013 VW TDI (diesel) jetta sportwagon. It's a fantastic car honestly. Gets great fuel mileage, drives very well, lots of get up and go, comfortable, sharp looking too.
We are in some rough financial Times and we are looking at options to help see us through. While I like her car and she honestly needs something super reliable, that car payment is an issue. I've never had a new car and only financed one once, 25 years ago.
So add in the issue that VW is having with their emission "cheating" fiasco and we are in an interesting place.
For those who don't know, VW was caught with their cars being able to cheat when put on the US emission test machines. They are now trying to fix it as well as make it right by their customers.
Their peace offering is essentially 2 options for owners like us.
1)We can turn in the car and they will pay off whatever is still owed, making us free of the car note. They will cut us a check for between $4-5.5k as restitution from the class action suite and mandated by the USG.
2) Keep the car and wait to see what they come up with as a "fix" to get the car legit and emissions compliant (the fix is free). Would also still receive the money for restitution.
So what to do....?
What would you do??

My concerns are many.
Will VW be able to fix this issue without making the car less efficient or less drivable?
While eliminating the debt of a car note is a great idea to me, what do we do to get a reliable car for her without going into debt?
Are we not essentially losing all the money she's already paid in interest towards the car? Basically being put back to zero for the debt but with nothing to show for it?

Two options I came up with today seem interesting but maybe I'm way off.
1st idea) turn the car in, thus losing $18+k of debt. Use the restitution money as a down payment for a much less expensive, 4wd SUV in good shape. Hopefully only financing less than $8k.
2nd idea) turn the car in and say goodbye to the debt. Take the money and use it to go completely through her 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Being a jeep guy I could make it pretty new for $5k and it's already paid for. Just not sure that's a great option for her as a daily driver. She's used to the diesel getting 40-45mpg. That waggy will be lucky to get 12 on a good day. And it's a very different animal driving a 25 year old jeep vs a basically new VW car.
So what to do... throw me some ideas folks. We'll appreciate it!


Sell it back to VW and purchase a vehicle of your choice from a reputable company.

Why?

Because if you couldn't trust them to be truthful up-front, why would you trust them to make the repairs correctly and ethically. You can't at this point.
Old 10-26-2016, 01:12 PM
macruadhi macruadhi is offline
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Originally Posted by 5keepers View Post
Tips from an old person.. 1. get out of debt>PERIOD!..2. Forget fixing a 26 year old vehicle-trade it in also!! 3. Search/look/find a good used late model 2012 or newer 4WD Colorado or Canyon (personal recommendation for families without kids) from a Ford,Chevy,GMC, Honda,Toyota, etc... dealership..NOT a "used car dealer"!!
Remember>> Pay it off quickly with second jobs..you are NOT too good for second jobs to get to your financial goals!!
.. remember, this is advice from an old person with no debt!!.. 2 late model vehs., 2 boats, 2 ATV, 2 motorcycles, ...and LOVE being debt free..

Unless the frame/body is rusted, I have a hard time believing putting 5K into a car you already have is not better than sinking the same into a car you know nothing about.

My Crown vic is 18 years old and 5K would get me a new engine, tranny, and the driver's seat I need, maybe even new shocks and a couple of upgraded rear springs.
Old 10-26-2016, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
That was part of our discussion as the VW is so efficient. Thankfully her commute is about 8 miles each way. I warned her that the waggy is horrible on gas but she understands. We may look into doing a transmission swap for an overdrive 700r4. Gives a deeper 1st gear for easier stop amd go and the OD will help with any trips we make to wherever. Still, it will be no comparison but not paying a $460+ payment will pay for a lot of gas.

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I know you want to do the Jeep, but you may also want to consider paying cash for a gas powered GM vehicle like say, a Cobalt, a Cavalier if you can find one under say 120 K miles. I am personally very fond of Buick's, and the wife's 01 LeSabre routinely gets 30-32 MPH Highway and never less than about 24 in purely city driving. Around here, lots of gray hairs let them go cheap as they quit driving and nobody "cool" wants them. Typically you will find more Buick's garage kept as well........ If the LeSabre is too big for her, look at the Century, wonderful car as well. Around here ( Central Illinois ) you can find LeSabres or Centuries that are 10-12 years old for between 2 and 3K with 120 to 140K miles on them.

Just a thought for today!
Old 10-26-2016, 11:12 PM
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I know you want to do the Jeep, but you may also want to consider paying cash for a gas powered GM vehicle like say, a Cobalt, a Cavalier if you can find one under say 120 K miles. I am personally very fond of Buick's, and the wife's 01 LeSabre routinely gets 30-32 MPH Highway and never less than about 24 in purely city driving. Around here, lots of gray hairs let them go cheap as they quit driving and nobody "cool" wants them. Typically you will find more Buick's garage kept as well........ If the LeSabre is too big for her, look at the Century, wonderful car as well. Around here ( Central Illinois ) you can find LeSabres or Centuries that are 10-12 years old for between 2 and 3K with 120 to 140K miles on them.

Just a thought for today!
Lol... if you knew my wife you'd understand why I laugh. That kind of car would never happen. She's giving up a lot by losing her fancy car and willing to drive the cool "retro" (vomit, hate that term) wagon. For a while at least.

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Old 10-26-2016, 11:28 PM
Ohiopreps Ohiopreps is offline
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We have 3 jetta tdi's currently. 2004 sedan, 2005 wagon and a 2009 wagon (mother in laws vehicle). The 2009 we'd get bluebook value (as of sept 2015 I believe) and the $5,100 sorry we got caught payment.

There is no rush to decide. If you like the car, you can wait to see what the fix is and decide then. More will be known about impact on economy and potential reliability issues with the fix.

The 04 and 05 Jettas have been great for us. The 09 has given my mother in law some problems.
Old 10-27-2016, 12:43 AM
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We have 3 jetta tdi's currently. 2004 sedan, 2005 wagon and a 2009 wagon (mother in laws vehicle). The 2009 we'd get bluebook value (as of sept 2015 I believe) and the $5,100 sorry we got caught payment.

There is no rush to decide. If you like the car, you can wait to see what the fix is and decide then. More will be known about impact on economy and potential reliability issues with the fix.

The 04 and 05 Jettas have been great for us. The 09 has given my mother in law some problems.
The problem is two fold.
1st is I don't see anyway they can fix this and satisfy both the US fed and the customers who bought the car in good faith.
2nd is the payment still must be made while waiting. Our payment is over 400 bucks a month. Tags are coming due soon so there's that plus the emissions to look forward to cheating. Full coverage insurance. And everyday is more mileage.
Not getting a lot of info from VW on how that effects us. The online thing we did last night was just plugging in the numbers. Based on our year/options/mileage/etc, we may see the the note paid off and the we screwed ya monies. If it's 18500 to pay off the loan and we have 53k miles on it now, they suggest the payout being about 6700.
So suppose the buy back doesn't happen for 6 months? That's at least 2400+ in car payment, another 700 for the tag etc, all the while we are accruing more miles. Will we get paid less because of the extra miles? Tag fees? Money given to the bank now <>then which some could be putting towards a replacement car.
Way too many unknowns and I have lots of questions.
What happens to the people who opt to keep the car hoping a fix actually works? If (when) it doesnt... Will they still get a good deal even if it's a year or two down the road?
I heard a rumor that only folks who financed through VW will get a check. I'd like that dispelled because that would be a very bad move by VW.
I'm not one of those "sue happy" people. I am disgusted that this is such a fine car but because some tree hugger insists it pollutes and the Fed gov has a mountain of regulations, we must get rid of it. I was happy. Now... just confused and annoyed. The longer this goes on, the more that annoyance will turn to anger.

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Old 10-27-2016, 01:01 PM
Ohiopreps Ohiopreps is offline
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.......... .
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
the problem is two fold.
1st is i don't see anyway they can fix this and satisfy both the us fed and the customers who bought the car in good faith.

totally unknown what the resolution will be. I assume it's not a fix that software can resolve, otherwise it would have already been implemented.
I can't see a def retrofit. Who knows?

2nd is the payment still must be made while waiting. Our payment is over 400 bucks a month. Tags are coming due soon so there's that plus the emissions to look forward to cheating. Full coverage insurance. And everyday is more mileage.
You'll have costs and insurance on the replacement vehicle as well.
Not getting a lot of info from vw on how that effects us. The online thing we did last night was just plugging in the numbers. Based on our year/options/mileage/etc, we may see the the note paid off and the we screwed ya monies. If it's 18500 to pay off the loan and we have 53k miles on it now, they suggest the payout being about 6700.
So suppose the buy back doesn't happen for 6 months? That's at least 2400+ in car payment, another 700 for the tag etc, all the while we are accruing more miles. Will we get paid less because of the extra miles? Tag fees? Money given to the bank now <>then which some could be putting towards a replacement car.
What have you got to loose if the note is paid off and there is an additional payment made to you?
way too many unknowns and i have lots of questions.
What happens to the people who opt to keep the car hoping a fix actually works? If (when) it doesnt... Will they still get a good deal even if it's a year or two down the road?
unknown. Vw has said they will extend the warranty on the emission system upgrade.
i heard a rumor that only folks who financed through vw will get a check. I'd like that dispelled because that would be a very bad move by vw.

vw financing is not a factor. Just went on the site for my mother in law. She had no financing on the vehicle and would get blue book (mileage adjusted) plus the vw screwed up payment which is $5100 in her case.

i'm not one of those "sue happy" people. I am disgusted that this is such a fine car but because some tree hugger insists it pollutes and the fed gov has a mountain of regulations, we must get rid of it. I was happy. Now... Just confused and annoyed. The longer this goes on, the more that annoyance will turn to anger.

differences between us and european emissions laws. Your car is fine, if you lived overseas. Interesting article on that below.
https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/differences-in-us-and-eu-emissions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/

Hopefully the fix won't be a reliability nightmare. I haven't heard what the length of the warranty will be. Whatever hardware they add, i assume there will be ongoing maintenance costs associated with it
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:44 PM
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My county doesn't have emissions...yet. Much of Colorado does and I'm sure it's coming. Sucks because your hard pressed to know the thing is diesel. Clean, quiet, peppy.
I'm just afraid the "fix" will be part computer reflash which reduces it's good traits and part installation of some other dumb system like DEF.
And having money troubles sure makes seeing the note go away very attractive.

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I used to work in environmental and can tell you there are very specific rules in the code of federal regulations that govern when a county is included in a non-attainment area and emissions testing begins. Two questions: are counties not giving emissions waivers for the VW TDIs, and does your county border another that is currently doing emissions inspections?

If your county borders another that has emissions inspections, yours will get them once a certain percentage/number of people in your county commute to the non-attainment area for work or there is enough industry to bring your county into a non-attainment status. If you do not border one, it is unlikely you will see testing anytime soon as I've never seen a skip over. Even then it will probably take a couple of years at least for everything to grind through the bureaucracy giving you plenty of lead time to do something with your problem, assuming you even have one.
Old 10-27-2016, 10:14 PM
patdaly patdaly is offline
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Lol... if you knew my wife you'd understand why I laugh. That kind of car would never happen. She's giving up a lot by losing her fancy car and willing to drive the cool "retro" (vomit, hate that term) wagon. For a while at least.

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Completely understand, mine drove a brand new Isuzu Impulse when we first met, took years and kids to "uncool" her.
Old 10-27-2016, 10:43 PM
alv7722 alv7722 is offline
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how critical is 'emissions' in your AO?

I say keep it and let them 'fix' it to your satisfaction. Take the settlement and apply it to the note.

It wasn't like they where not a good vehicle. They just got caught working the system.
The above is good advice, but you can re-finance the loan to a smaller payment by using the settlement money.

I heard some people are getting up to 10k for a settlement???

Diesel engines of that type can easily go 300,000 miles and better. Keep it otherwise waxed and polished and drive the bejesus out or it....
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Old 10-28-2016, 08:10 AM
wldwsel wldwsel is offline
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Contact your VW dealer and get the web address for the TDI Settlement, if you haven't already. The Judge approved the deal last week and one of the options is to buy back you car at a fairly "fair" price.

WW
Old 10-29-2016, 01:00 PM
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With the VW buyback program and cash, it seems silly to keep it.

Furthermore, VW does not have an excellent reliabilty rating. Accurate, real-world reliability can be found at "truedelta.com". The best website I've found for "facts" about what others experience. VW does not fare well at all.
Old 10-29-2016, 01:14 PM
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I think the answer depends on your philosophy. VW has made some great cars, but have not been honest in selling them. Do you believe their promises? If you do, and can forgive them then keep the car. Otherwise, sell it. They are willing to fix the car, and pay you to keep it.

A diesel car that is well made like a VW will last a very long time. If it were me I would keep it.
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:18 AM
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I always wanted a VW Diesel for the mere fact they last forever and don't have all the additional emissions crap on them - DEF, etc.
Old 11-07-2016, 11:33 AM
MRGUMBY MRGUMBY is offline
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VW diesels do not last forever.
People like to say that, but it is still a 1.9 or 2.0 liter engine under great strain with the compression ration of the diesel. Those little bores do wear out after 200K or so if cared for well.
While some of them last longer, you will find they do because of highway miles, long trips, gentle use.
The electronic nature of the design makes them no more reliable than any other car out there.

If you can get that much from VW for the thing, why not look at gsaauctions.com and buy a low mileage fleet car from our government? You pay around book for one, but lets say a Malibu/Impala as an example. (I do fleet data for a living and these cars are actually more reliable than the VW diesels in the fleets. (All those oxygen sensors add up in the grand scheme of things.)

I would look there to see what 5-6K will get you.
The MPG will not be as good, but when you price out that timing belt on the VW, add that $600 to your fuel budget and see how long that makes up the difference.
Also, if you encounter cold weather, that VW is not going to start so well as it nears the end of its life.
A gasoline vehicle is free of this issue.
The cars offered on GSA are honestly described. The people doing the descriptions have no financial motivation to cover up issues or lie about them.

I have purchased 14 vehicles this way (never set eyes on the car/truck till the days I picked them up) and not one time have I been sorry.

I look for under 40,000 miles.
If they are dented by hail storms...even better for me, since dings do not phase me.
You can save a ton of $$ if you feel the same.

Hope it all works out for you.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:40 AM
TacticalFarmer TacticalFarmer is offline
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Give them the car back and take the money for god's sake. That car WILL let you down eventually especially if they screw with it.

Sell it and get an early 2000s Toyota camry or Avalon. Nothing is more reliable. Inaquire before you ignore me. You have been lead to water.
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Old 11-07-2016, 01:54 PM
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wldwsel is one of the few people that has owned a diesel and then sold it for a gas engine. But he shows his obvious regret.
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