ozone / oxygen generator? - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lister Generator or Natural Gas generator? NewYorkNewbie Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 29 07-18-2016 10:07 PM
Ozone Generator(DIY) - Pics ShaDoLor DIY - Do It Yourself 30 09-27-2015 07:56 PM
home made generator generator luvdahills DIY - Do It Yourself 45 01-19-2013 12:37 AM
Oxygen Generator cpeater Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 24 03-14-2012 05:57 PM
arctic ozone no grid Controversial News and Alternative Politics 14 04-22-2011 12:11 AM
Beats the ozone holes speedofl33t Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 6 06-13-2009 11:33 PM
E100 generator? (100% ethanol generator) Exists? nattylite General Discussion 3 12-07-2008 04:34 PM
The Use of Ozone in Medicine catdaddy Health, Fitness and First Aid 0 09-24-2007 02:09 AM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2016, 11:29 AM
Calgary-John Calgary-John is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 20
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Default ozone / oxygen generator?



Advertise Here

Does anyone have one or know of one on the market?

I need something where I can seal my house shut and be able to generate my own oxygen.

Thank you
Old 06-23-2016, 11:43 AM
nkawtg's Avatar
nkawtg nkawtg is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Age: 63
Posts: 1,101
Thanks: 92
Thanked 2,563 Times in 777 Posts
Default

Why do you need to do that?
Old 06-23-2016, 12:49 PM
WanderInTheWoods's Avatar
WanderInTheWoods WanderInTheWoods is offline
Semi-experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 181
Thanks: 139
Thanked 326 Times in 136 Posts
Default

If you have
A) Access to unlimited water supply
B) Solar panel putting out at least 200w of DC power
C) Salt

You can make your own. Dissolve 1 tablespoon of salt for each gallon of water. Insert the positive and negative wire ends direct from the panel into the bucket at opposite sides. You'll see bubbles coming up from both electrodes. The bubbles from the negative wire are pure Oxygen.

Just don't light a match, make a spark, etc - the bubbles from the positive wire are Hydrogen - one spark and BOOM.
The Following User Says Thank You to WanderInTheWoods For This Useful Post:
 
Old 06-23-2016, 01:13 PM
illinoisguy illinoisguy is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 461
Thanks: 30
Thanked 697 Times in 183 Posts
Default

You are producing oxygen and hydrogen. I did not know you are producing Ozone.
Old 06-23-2016, 02:40 PM
Calgary-John Calgary-John is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 20
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkawtg View Post
Why do you need to do that?
Just incase. Air can become smokey or contaminated in a wrol situation. Need to be able to generate my own supply in my house.
Old 06-23-2016, 02:48 PM
BrianWorf BrianWorf is offline
Klingon Imperial Command
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arlington, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 1,621
Thanks: 5,274
Thanked 2,597 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary-John View Post
Just incase. Air can become smokey or contaminated in a wrol situation. Need to be able to generate my own supply in my house.
I can understand the desire to do this, but the energy required to make enough Oxygen to sustain you would be high.

You might be able to supplement using some indoor plants that would take the carbon dioxide you exhale and make oxygen. Like some small trees.

My dad was on chemo and had an oxygen generator about the size of a large suitcase that plugged into the wall and made oxygen (and a lot of noise!) It was in the front of the house and a long tube ran back to his bedroom where it went into a nasal canella or his CPAP mask. I am not sure how much one of those machines cost, but it was a fairly sizeable electric load.
The Following User Says Thank You to BrianWorf For This Useful Post:
Old 06-23-2016, 03:51 PM
WanderInTheWoods's Avatar
WanderInTheWoods WanderInTheWoods is offline
Semi-experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 181
Thanks: 139
Thanked 326 Times in 136 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianWorf View Post
I can understand the desire to do this, but the energy required to make enough Oxygen to sustain you would be high.

You might be able to supplement using some indoor plants that would take the carbon dioxide you exhale and make oxygen. Like some small trees.

My dad was on chemo and had an oxygen generator about the size of a large suitcase that plugged into the wall and made oxygen (and a lot of noise!) It was in the front of the house and a long tube ran back to his bedroom where it went into a nasal canella or his CPAP mask. I am not sure how much one of those machines cost, but it was a fairly sizeable electric load.
Not only a load on the electrical power - the chemicals needed to 'generate' oxygen have to be replaced at regular intervals and aren't cheap. 'No such thing as a free lunch'. These don't 'generate' oxygen so much as take in air and concentrate the oxygen, that's what the chemicals are for - to absorb the nitrogen and CO2.

Better bet is to install high-efficiency filters and take in air from outside through them. With 'butterfly' valves between the filter and the outside, you can shut those off, change out the filter, then open them up again. Much cheaper both in the original installation and having enough replacement filters on hand.

Using plants is an option - but you'd have to have plants covering every square foot of wall-space, hanging from the ceiling and filling up most of the floor space to generate enough oxygen - the estimate based on the Biosphere projects of the 90s is 700 potted plants per person to generate the required oxygen levels.

Last edited by WanderInTheWoods; 06-23-2016 at 04:14 PM.. Reason: Addition
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to WanderInTheWoods For This Useful Post:
Old 06-23-2016, 04:46 PM
charliemeyer007's Avatar
charliemeyer007 charliemeyer007 is online now
reluctant sinner
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,608
Thanks: 16
Thanked 12,913 Times in 5,590 Posts
Default

Ozone (O3) is toxic in anything but small concentrations.

I think you are wasting your time and effort to try and produce oxygen to live on. Filtering out bad stuff is doable.

You could vent the hydrogen gas produced by electrolysis easy enough and just keep the oxygen. The carbon rods from the inside of the old carbon zinc batteries is a nice electrode. The electrode that bubbles twice a fast/much is the hydrogen one.


If you pick the correct voltage you could be concentrating "Heavy Water".
The Following User Says Thank You to charliemeyer007 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-23-2016, 04:58 PM
nkawtg's Avatar
nkawtg nkawtg is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Age: 63
Posts: 1,101
Thanks: 92
Thanked 2,563 Times in 777 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary-John View Post
Just incase. Air can become smokey or contaminated in a wrol situation. Need to be able to generate my own supply in my house.
Then filter it, no need to make your own.
The Following User Says Thank You to nkawtg For This Useful Post:
Old 06-23-2016, 10:00 PM
Calgary-John Calgary-John is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 20
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Interesting. So which filters would be recommended then for such use?
Old 06-23-2016, 11:00 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,047
Thanks: 812
Thanked 7,293 Times in 2,631 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderInTheWoods View Post
Not only a load on the electrical power - the chemicals needed to 'generate' oxygen have to be replaced at regular intervals and aren't cheap. 'No such thing as a free lunch'. These don't 'generate' oxygen so much as take in air and concentrate the oxygen, that's what the chemicals are for - to absorb the nitrogen and CO2.
The process used to concentrate oxygen from the air does not consume the working agent. Nor is the agent expensive. At about 2 atmospheres pressure, zeolite adsorbs nitrogen like crazy, leaving oxygen behind. Extract the oxygen, release the pressure, and the nitrogen detaches from the zeolite and can be flushed away. This principle is how medical oxygen concentrators work. The only long term problem is filtering the incoming air so the zeolite beds don't become clogged with dust. Other than that, they work for years.

You can buy zeolite by the pound on Amazon or evilBay if you want to make your own machine. "Clumping" odor-absorbent cat litter is mostly zeolite, mined in numerous locations in the western USA. Aside from its' ability to adsorb nitrogen when under pressure, it also aggressively adsorbs ammonia.

A machine does require power, since the basis of the mechanism is an air compressor.

Here's a decent description of the process and the mechanism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_swing_adsorption

Having disposed of that, let's consider the O.P.'s desire. Which I think would be far better handled by using masks fed from a scuba tank, rather than trying to pressurize the whole living space.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 06-23-2016, 11:49 PM
dmas dmas is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,329
Thanks: 489
Thanked 1,623 Times in 972 Posts
Default

Having oxygen concentrated around flammables like furniture or bedding is a fire hazard. Even you can be flammable.
You would think hydrogen would just float away. Don't count on that. I have had it stay in an open topped container.
Heavy water has a rare isotope of hydrogen. Its not that easy to make.
Old 06-24-2016, 09:33 AM
BrianWorf BrianWorf is offline
Klingon Imperial Command
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arlington, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 1,621
Thanks: 5,274
Thanked 2,597 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
The process used to concentrate oxygen from the air does not consume the working agent. Nor is the agent expensive. At about 2 atmospheres pressure, zeolite adsorbs nitrogen like crazy, leaving oxygen behind. Extract the oxygen, release the pressure, and the nitrogen detaches from the zeolite and can be flushed away. This principle is how medical oxygen concentrators work. The only long term problem is filtering the incoming air so the zeolite beds don't become clogged with dust. Other than that, they work for years.

You can buy zeolite by the pound on Amazon or evilBay if you want to make your own machine. "Clumping" odor-absorbent cat litter is mostly zeolite, mined in numerous locations in the western USA. Aside from its' ability to adsorb nitrogen when under pressure, it also aggressively adsorbs ammonia.

A machine does require power, since the basis of the mechanism is an air compressor.

Here's a decent description of the process and the mechanism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_swing_adsorption

Having disposed of that, let's consider the O.P.'s desire. Which I think would be far better handled by using masks fed from a scuba tank, rather than trying to pressurize the whole living space.
THANKS!! I wondered how it worked. Never got much of a chance to look closely at the machine, but I knew that there were no consumable chemicals used in the process.
Old 06-26-2016, 08:39 PM
unit505 unit505 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Keithville, La
Posts: 380
Thanks: 44
Thanked 265 Times in 125 Posts
Default

I have to have to add, Oxygen doesn't just explode in the presence of a flame. After nearly 20 years in the casino business and 21 years in EMS, I can tell you that I have seen thousands upon thousands of people smoking with O2 flowing via nasal canula and non-rebreathers. Standard O2 tanks, liquid oxygen tanks, oxygen concentrators, etc don't just explode from a cigarette or open flame. I had it out with a Fire Marshal and won after a fatality house fire one night. According to his findings "The patient's O2 tank exploded as the patient was smoking'. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!! The insurance investigator - Former Fire Chief and Fire Academy Instructor found the electrical short in a laundry room that set the house on fire. Fire Marshal looked no farther than the shell of the O2 Tank. The coroner said the patient died of smoke inhalation and was dead when the O2 tank exploded from the heat of the house burning down around him. The Fire Marshal Report was amended with the correct cause of death within 24 hours and the Fire Marshal was sent for a little more training. If O2 tanks exploded from a lit cigarette, we would have no Casinos left on the planet. I laugh when I roll up to the nursing homes and ten patients are outside smoking with their tether to their O2 equipment. Just my 2 cents!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to unit505 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-27-2016, 07:04 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,047
Thanks: 812
Thanked 7,293 Times in 2,631 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unit505 View Post
I have to have to add, Oxygen doesn't just explode in the presence of a flame. After nearly 20 years in the casino business and 21 years in EMS, I can tell you that I have seen thousands upon thousands of people smoking with O2 flowing via nasal canula and non-rebreathers. Standard O2 tanks, liquid oxygen tanks, oxygen concentrators, etc don't just explode from a cigarette or open flame. I had it out with a Fire Marshal and won after a fatality house fire one night. According to his findings "The patient's O2 tank exploded as the patient was smoking'. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!! The insurance investigator - Former Fire Chief and Fire Academy Instructor found the electrical short in a laundry room that set the house on fire. Fire Marshal looked no farther than the shell of the O2 Tank. The coroner said the patient died of smoke inhalation and was dead when the O2 tank exploded from the heat of the house burning down around him. The Fire Marshal Report was amended with the correct cause of death within 24 hours and the Fire Marshal was sent for a little more training. If O2 tanks exploded from a lit cigarette, we would have no Casinos left on the planet. I laugh when I roll up to the nursing homes and ten patients are outside smoking with their tether to their O2 equipment. Just my 2 cents!
Right you are! It needs fuel to make a fire.

I use a concentrator for my sleep apnea, so I know that the actual oxygen volume is pretty small. But if you pierce a pressure-tank-full in the presence of fuel and an ignition source, it would be pretty exciting. I have read of cases where a patient's bedclothes became oxygen-saturated, and when ignited the fire was pretty fierce, although short-lived. I've often wondered if the gun-camera shots of WW2 fighter planes exploding when shot up by another fighter might have been due to fuel tanks and oxygen bottles being pierced at the same time.

Many years ago I was working on a job in a steel mill, installing a large machine that used a lot of oxygen. I wasn't there to see it, but the story went that the team installing the 6" feed piping failed to purge the pipe when they did some sort of valve test, before the pipe was connected to our machine. They just turned on the oxygen full blast. All the debris left in the pipe, which apparently included shop rags, a paper bag containing the remains of somebody's lunch, and a dead rat, emerged flaming at Mach 2.
The Following User Says Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 06-28-2016, 01:13 AM
KeyserSoSay's Avatar
KeyserSoSay KeyserSoSay is online now
[199]wks to off-grid esc.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: (the great state of) New Mexico, USA.
Posts: 599
Thanks: 587
Thanked 857 Times in 399 Posts
Default

Thanks old coach and unit505 for the helpful info. I do think it's important to caveate by adding that increasing the O2 level of an enclosed area above that of natural air does indeed create a potentially dangerous fire hazard. It does take fuel and spark to make fire but we tend to base our understanding of flammibility on our experiences in natural O2 levels environments, and folks (reading this thread) should understand just a little more O2 (percentage wise) can make fire or explosion a lot more likely and an exponentially more intense reaction (think- smoking in bed with a LEAKING O2 tank). Also, too much O2 in the air can be as toxic as anything else.

Calgary John, google "NBC filters", or better yet- "NBC overpressure air filtration system". NBC stands for Nuclear Biological, Chemical, and they even make systems with a back-up hand crank pump. I'd be willing to bet there are a dozen threads on this forum discussing NBC filtration. I think this is exactly what the doctor ordered for you and beats the heck out of produced O2.
The Following User Says Thank You to KeyserSoSay For This Useful Post:
Old 01-09-2017, 10:46 AM
goodfoot goodfoot is offline
9 meals from anarchy.
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 197
Thanks: 319
Thanked 142 Times in 82 Posts
Default

For starters, I appreciate all the thoughtful info on this topic.

That being said, I'm with Calgary_John at the moment. I appreciate the finer points of "oxygen concentration", but I wanna be able to PRODUCE my own oxygen.

They do it in submarines, outer space, and "The Martian", so there's gotta be a way.lol I know about "Oxygen candles", but I'm guessing those get MAD-expensive. And even the industrial-type ones only work for 50 minutes or so.

And of course, there's electrolysis. However, as you can imagine, I'm concerned about the flammability and the toxicity.

I guess, in the grand scheme of things, I'm wondering if just doing something simple like growing plants is the way to go? (square-footage needs aside)

[EDIT: Found some supplemental info on this website: http://www.secrets-of-longevity-in-h...ng-plants.html ]. Basically posting here for some "vetting", as it were.

Here's a relevant quote from the page:

#2 Snake Plant a.k.a. Mother-In-Law’s Tongue: Of all the different oxygen producing plants, this one is unique since it converts a lot of CO2 (carbon dioxide) to O2 (oxygen) at night, making it ideal to have several in your bedroom. 6-8 waist high plants are needed per person to survive if there is no air flow (meaning you could live in a completely air sealed room if you had these plants and the Areca Palms present). The snake plant also removes formaldehyde from the air.

Last edited by goodfoot; 01-09-2017 at 11:06 AM.. Reason: Supplemental info relevant to original post.
The Following User Says Thank You to goodfoot For This Useful Post:
Old 01-09-2017, 01:15 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,047
Thanks: 812
Thanked 7,293 Times in 2,631 Posts
Default

TANSTAAFL. Oxygen can't be created or destroyed, short of nuclear reactions in stars. It can only be combined into molecule (water, iron oxide, CO2) or it can be liberated from a molecule into the free form that we need for respiration. Breaking it out of a molecule always requires energy input. Plants do us the favor of breaking CO2 to get the carbon, using the chemical process we call photosynthesis, which requires sunlight for energy. The plants throw away the oxygen, which we use. That's the only way I know of that doesn't use artificial power, which is how submarines must do it, by electrolysis. (What they do with the hydrogen I don't know.)

Interesting that, about Snake Plants. I wonder what they do with the formaldehyde?
The Following User Says Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 01-09-2017, 07:40 PM
Jerry D Young's Avatar
Jerry D Young Jerry D Young is offline
www.jerrydyoung.com

 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 63
Posts: 10,319
Thanks: 11,951
Thanked 54,383 Times in 7,497 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

A few observations:

1. An oxygen concentrator only produces enough oxygen to supplement the natural air for a single patient. That is a minimal amount compared to a room with several people in it.

2. When using an oxygen concentrator, the air within the room is run through the machine, fed to the patient, and released back into the air in the room. They do not create oxygen, they only concentrate what is there. You would need to pipe in outside air to the concentrator to add oxygen to the room.

3. If you are bringing in outside air for the concentrator, it would have to be filtered or you would just be bringing the contaminates into the room, along with the more concentrated oxygen. Remember, the oxygen has been concentrated from the air. The other things are still in the air, just with a higer concentration of oxygen.

4. There is still the problem of CO2. It must be removed from the air in the room as it will continue to build up faster than one can reasonably bring in oxygen with a concentrator.

5. In a sealed room, if the CO2 is absorbed, that will compensate for the added oxygen. If not, things would reach the point of overpressure (though with the quantities of gas being produced, not for a long time), that would prevent the concentrator from adding any more oxygen. Simple venting would eliminate the problem, of course, but that requires a controlled release with no possibility of back flow. Not an easy thing to do, even at the very low pressures involved.

6. CO2 absorbers are expensive and a bit difficult to acquire in quantity. Oxygen concentrators are expensive and legally require a prescription.

7. Compared to the expense of CO2 absorbers and an oxygen concentrator, an air treatment system using standard HVAC components is cheap and easy.

Unfortunately, with my laptop out of service, and having to get internet away from the apartment, I cannot show the filter make up. I will when I can transfer the information from my backups to this tablet.

Just my opinion.
__________________
Jerry D Young
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jerry D Young For This Useful Post:
Old 01-10-2017, 10:15 AM
goodfoot goodfoot is offline
9 meals from anarchy.
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 197
Thanks: 319
Thanked 142 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
TANSTAAFL. Oxygen can't be created or destroyed, short of nuclear reactions in stars. It can only be combined into molecule (water, iron oxide, CO2) or it can be liberated from a molecule into the free form that we need for respiration. Breaking it out of a molecule always requires energy input. Plants do us the favor of breaking CO2 to get the carbon, using the chemical process we call photosynthesis, which requires sunlight for energy. The plants throw away the oxygen, which we use. That's the only way I know of that doesn't use artificial power, which is how submarines must do it, by electrolysis. (What they do with the hydrogen I don't know.)

Interesting that, about Snake Plants. I wonder what they do with the formaldehyde?
Thanks for the input.

I found another resource that expounds on the previous:
http://wondergressive.com/three-plant-fresh-air-system/

The address looks a little "gimmicky", but there's a TED Talk link that looks pretty legit. In the 4-minute clip, he talks about "You could seal yourself in a bottle and still be able to breath." And the plant numbers he's talking about are MINIMAL per person.
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net