ozone / oxygen generator? - Page 2 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lister Generator or Natural Gas generator? NewYorkNewbie Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 29 07-18-2016 10:07 PM
Ozone Generator(DIY) - Pics ShaDoLor DIY - Do It Yourself 30 09-27-2015 07:56 PM
home made generator generator luvdahills DIY - Do It Yourself 45 01-19-2013 12:37 AM
Oxygen Generator cpeater Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 24 03-14-2012 05:57 PM
arctic ozone no grid Controversial News and Alternative Politics 14 04-22-2011 12:11 AM
Beats the ozone holes speedofl33t Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 6 06-13-2009 11:33 PM
E100 generator? (100% ethanol generator) Exists? nattylite General Discussion 3 12-07-2008 04:34 PM
The Use of Ozone in Medicine catdaddy Health, Fitness and First Aid 0 09-24-2007 02:09 AM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2017, 10:47 AM
America's Patriot's Avatar
America's Patriot America's Patriot is online now
LEGAL citizen
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,708
Thanks: 1,551
Thanked 20,499 Times in 6,773 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Ozone and Oxygen... two different things. Ozone will make you sick or even kill you in an enclosed environment. Oxygen is highly explosive. Do you really want to make concentrated Oxygen in your home? There is a fine line between safe and insane... if you're asking for our advice here... insane.

Plants to filter the air are a great choice. Garden Mum is by far the best at air purifying, but probably not the easiest to grow. Maybe you could consider adding a greenhouse that is attached to your home and growing whatever you want in there year round...

http://greatist.com/connect/houseplants-that-clean-air
Old 01-10-2017, 11:24 AM
Mountain's Avatar
Mountain Mountain is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Age: 47
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 5,132
Thanked 5,972 Times in 1,879 Posts
Default

Ozone is ionized oxygen atoms. This is accomplished quite easily by creating a spark within the atmosphere, lightning creates ozone, old electric motors produce ozone etc etc etc. Producing ozone is easy, the question is, why exactly do you want to produce a toxic gas?

The gasses in our atmosphere are not very electrically conductive, for them to conduct, the atoms must first be "ionized". To create a spark through our atmosphere even 1/4 inch of it, you must first ionize gasses to create an electrically conductive path. When you ionize the oxygen present in the atmosphere you get ozone. Note, that I said atmospheric oxygen, concentrated oxygen sources will likely just create a large explosion.
Old 01-10-2017, 08:16 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,052
Thanks: 814
Thanked 7,311 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default

There have been a couple of serious attempts to live in a totally sealed environment, looking forward to trying to put people in space for extended journeys, or to live on a hostile planet such as the moon or Mars. Sure enough, these experiments used large amounts of growing things, both to provide food, and to provide oxygen and clear out CO2. These environments were of course well supplied with sunlight.

You have to clear the CO2! Even if there's enough oxygen, the bloodstream must be cleared of CO2. If you don't the body starts to panic. The panting reflex is the first sign. This used to happen to submarine crews, which is why they carried CO2 absorbents along with bottled oxygen.

OTOH high altitude fliers in WW2 could die of anoxia without knowing it, since their systems were clearing CO2 normally.

BTW one of the neater bits of modern medical gear that you can buy online is a gadget that clips on your fingertip and measures the oxygenation of your blood. Simple ones are only twenty bucks. I have one that records a couple of hours of data, since I am a sleep apnea sufferer. I'm told that many pilots wear one when flying, even with oxygen. Anoxia at altitude is a very sneaky condition.
 
Old 01-10-2017, 08:28 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,052
Thanks: 814
Thanked 7,311 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
Ozone and Oxygen... two different things. Ozone will make you sick or even kill you in an enclosed environment. Oxygen is highly explosive. Do you really want to make concentrated Oxygen in your home? There is a fine line between safe and insane... if you're asking for our advice here... insane.
Um, I have an oxygen concentrator in my home for a medical condition. So do millions of other old folks. It's as safe as houses, so long as you don't let the O2 build up in bedclothes or something like that. Oxygen is NOT explosive unless you have a adequate amount of gaseous FUEL present. Bring an ignition source to oxygen-saturated cotton and you'll get a flash fire, but not an explosion. You can burn to death, maybe, but it won't blow the windows out.
Old 01-10-2017, 09:04 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,052
Thanks: 814
Thanked 7,311 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
Ozone is ionized oxygen atoms. This is accomplished quite easily by creating a spark within the atmosphere, lightning creates ozone, old electric motors produce ozone etc etc etc. Producing ozone is easy, the question is, why exactly do you want to produce a toxic gas?

The gasses in our atmosphere are not very electrically conductive, for them to conduct, the atoms must first be "ionized". To create a spark through our atmosphere even 1/4 inch of it, you must first ionize gasses to create an electrically conductive path. When you ionize the oxygen present in the atmosphere you get ozone. Note, that I said atmospheric oxygen, concentrated oxygen sources will likely just create a large explosion.
Ozone is not ionized oxygen. It is a variant molecule consisting of three atoms of oxygen. (Normally a free oxygen molecule is only two atoms.) Electric sparks create ozone by splitting an O2 molecule. The two free oxygen atoms hook up with another O2 molecule forming O3 ozone. While the oxygen atoms are free, they are known as radicals, which is a way of saying that they really, really want company, and will combine with something, including an O2 molecule, so as not to be lonely.

Ozone is an extremely aggressive oxidizer, since the O3 molecule very much wants to be an O2 molecule, and so will give up its' third atom very easily. This can be trouble for humans, since it will happily oxidize sensitive tissues in our respiratory system, even at very low concentrations. Fortunately the O3 molecule isn't stable, so it's hard to maintain even a low concentration for long.

Wiki has an accurate article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone
The Following User Says Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 01-11-2017, 02:17 AM
unit505 unit505 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Keithville, La
Posts: 380
Thanks: 44
Thanked 265 Times in 125 Posts
Default

Medical grade O2 also requires a prescription as does the oxygen concentrator. Funny though, concentrators nor O2 bottles carry any kind of prescription label and no way to trace back to any one person. There are serial numbers on the concentrators but it's a nightmare getting a company to come pick one up. When I was in the casinos, we had literally dozens of them in storage left behind by customers. O2 bottles were the same way. We would call the companies on the labels and they would say that they would come pick them up. In 14 years, I never witnessed them pick up a single concentrator or bottle. So with that, they are not hard to come by without a prescription. Getting a medical grade O2 tank filled is also very easy as long as you have the cash to get one filled. As an EMS Supervisor, I had the O2 prescription for my casinos, but was never asked to produce it. If you have a current inspection on an O2 bottle, you can swap them for a full one at most any welding supply house. Our ambulance services all use the local welding supply house for our medical grade O2. Most any person claiming to be a first responder can get medical grade O2 filled without question.
Old 01-11-2017, 10:00 AM
America's Patriot's Avatar
America's Patriot America's Patriot is online now
LEGAL citizen
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,708
Thanks: 1,551
Thanked 20,499 Times in 6,773 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Um, I have an oxygen concentrator in my home for a medical condition. So do millions of other old folks. It's as safe as houses, so long as you don't let the O2 build up in bedclothes or something like that. Oxygen is NOT explosive unless you have a adequate amount of gaseous FUEL present. Bring an ignition source to oxygen-saturated cotton and you'll get a flash fire, but not an explosion. You can burn to death, maybe, but it won't blow the windows out.
Um, I know you can't live in an Oxygen only environment, it's toxic. But this is the catch 22... oxygen alone isn't explosive, but when mixed with other elements, especially hydrogen... huge boom. And the flash fires you are talking about... remember the Apollo mission?

I realize that you use an oxygen concentrator, but you have a need for it. I surely wouldn't pump pure oxygen into a room as was mentioned before. Explosion and flash fire... fine line in definition and still the same outcome... crispy critter.
Old 01-11-2017, 10:03 AM
America's Patriot's Avatar
America's Patriot America's Patriot is online now
LEGAL citizen
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,708
Thanks: 1,551
Thanked 20,499 Times in 6,773 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unit505 View Post
Medical grade O2 also requires a prescription as does the oxygen concentrator. Funny though, concentrators nor O2 bottles carry any kind of prescription label and no way to trace back to any one person. There are serial numbers on the concentrators but it's a nightmare getting a company to come pick one up. When I was in the casinos, we had literally dozens of them in storage left behind by customers. O2 bottles were the same way. We would call the companies on the labels and they would say that they would come pick them up. In 14 years, I never witnessed them pick up a single concentrator or bottle. So with that, they are not hard to come by without a prescription. Getting a medical grade O2 tank filled is also very easy as long as you have the cash to get one filled. As an EMS Supervisor, I had the O2 prescription for my casinos, but was never asked to produce it. If you have a current inspection on an O2 bottle, you can swap them for a full one at most any welding supply house. Our ambulance services all use the local welding supply house for our medical grade O2. Most any person claiming to be a first responder can get medical grade O2 filled without question.
I went through this crap with a relative. The only way to get them to pick them up, is to have a doctors release stating they don't need it anymore. My insurance company threatened a lawsuit because they were milking them for a few hundred bucks a month and was oblivious to the scam until I made them aware of it. They were quickly reimbursed by the medical company that was charging them.
Old 01-11-2017, 10:04 AM
5keepers's Avatar
5keepers 5keepers is offline
HidingInPlainSight 3%
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cocos Islands
Posts: 718
Thanks: 467
Thanked 606 Times in 313 Posts
Default

Try the "a lot of green plants" thing first.. large tall leafy ones. Much cheaper..
The Following User Says Thank You to 5keepers For This Useful Post:
Old 01-12-2017, 10:42 AM
Mountain's Avatar
Mountain Mountain is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Age: 47
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 5,132
Thanked 5,972 Times in 1,879 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Ozone is not ionized oxygen. It is a variant molecule consisting of three atoms of oxygen. (Normally a free oxygen molecule is only two atoms.) Electric sparks create ozone by splitting an O2 molecule. The two free oxygen atoms hook up with another O2 molecule forming O3 ozone. While the oxygen atoms are free, they are known as radicals, which is a way of saying that they really, really want company, and will combine with something, including an O2 molecule, so as not to be lonely.

Ozone is an extremely aggressive oxidizer, since the O3 molecule very much wants to be an O2 molecule, and so will give up its' third atom very easily. This can be trouble for humans, since it will happily oxidize sensitive tissues in our respiratory system, even at very low concentrations. Fortunately the O3 molecule isn't stable, so it's hard to maintain even a low concentration for long.

Wiki has an accurate article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone

Not to argue or anything... but...

In astronomy and atomic physics, doubly ionized oxygen (also known as O III) is the ion O2+.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly_ionized_oxygen

Now you went much further into explaining the "chemical process" of "ionization", but it is still ionized oxygen. Now I admit that I did not look all that up before posting, I just went with what I remembered from my HS astro physics course.
Old 01-12-2017, 02:53 PM
johnmcd johnmcd is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 513
Thanks: 138
Thanked 794 Times in 297 Posts
Default

See if you can find or make an oxygen candle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

Not a long-term solution, but you could probably get one that'll support a couple of people for 24 hours. The Navy uses them on subs for emergencies, and airlines use them to provide emergency oxygen to passengers.
Old 01-12-2017, 03:03 PM
johnmcd johnmcd is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 513
Thanks: 138
Thanked 794 Times in 297 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcd View Post
See if you can find or make an oxygen candle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

Not a long-term solution, but you could probably get one that'll support a couple of people for 24 hours. The Navy uses them on subs for emergencies, and airlines use them to provide emergency oxygen to passengers.
p.s. a 1 kilo (2.2lb) oxygen candle will supply around 6 hours of oxygen for an average adult.
Old 01-12-2017, 03:25 PM
America's Patriot's Avatar
America's Patriot America's Patriot is online now
LEGAL citizen
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,708
Thanks: 1,551
Thanked 20,499 Times in 6,773 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcd View Post
See if you can find or make an oxygen candle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

Not a long-term solution, but you could probably get one that'll support a couple of people for 24 hours. The Navy uses them on subs for emergencies, and airlines use them to provide emergency oxygen to passengers.
Wouldn't that turn the room into a big sauna? I thought they generated quite a bit of heat since they are exothermic....

Didn't know that about planes. Never really thought about it... I hate flying.
Old 01-12-2017, 05:34 PM
KeyserSoSay's Avatar
KeyserSoSay KeyserSoSay is online now
[182]wks to off-grid esc
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: (the great state of) New Mexico, USA.
Posts: 619
Thanks: 609
Thanked 892 Times in 412 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfoot View Post
For starters, I appreciate all the thoughtful info on this topic.

That being said, I'm with Calgary_John at the moment. I appreciate the finer points of "oxygen concentration", but I wanna be able to PRODUCE my own oxygen.

They do it in submarines, outer space, and "The Martian", so there's gotta be a way.lol I know about "Oxygen candles", but I'm guessing those get MAD-expensive. And even the industrial-type ones only work for 50 minutes or so.

And of course, there's electrolysis. However, as you can imagine, I'm concerned about the flammability and the toxicity.

.
I feel like I need to reiterate my nervous-dad warnings when it comes to produced O2 in an enclosed environment. I don't claim to be a O2 expert, but I was trained and assigned to submarines (since you mentioned these a couple of times) when I was in the Navy, and the most scary thing on a submarine is the O2 production and monitoring system. In fact, many more sailors have died horrible deaths due to the O2 production and monitoring system then the rest of the submarine combined- including the diesel fuel systems, guided missiles, extreme pressure steam systems, and thermonuclear warheads these ships carry around.

I do understand the prepper instinct to want to (at least know how to) produce one's own O2, and I'm not arguing against that, just putting a bug in everyone's ear that it needs to really be treated with respect and is not something to try to Bubba together.

Jerry mentioned a great point, that concentrating O2 has to be done outside of your living environment (not for safety- just because it defeats the point to remove O2 from the air to concentrate it) and then have some method to import your O2 where you want it. (which would require an NBC filter system anyway) - and I'd include that to apply to an O2 production system- which should be housed somewhere completely independent of your living environment.

I'm normally a "Safety Third" sort of guy, sorry to put my two cents in twice.
The Following User Says Thank You to KeyserSoSay For This Useful Post:
Old 01-12-2017, 07:57 PM
bushboy34 bushboy34 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 112
Thanks: 66
Thanked 101 Times in 58 Posts
Default Caution

Having worked as an EMT (long ago) and as a welder, I must agree that no, oxygen will not burst into flame as soon as an ignition source is present. That being said, it can cause something that is already burning to burst into flame in its entirety, and so suddenly that it seems to have exploded. Also, a very high concentration of oxygen can actually cause the ignition temperature of some substances (ex: petroleum products) to drop to room temperature, thus causing spontaneous combustion. I witnessed this when a co-worker cracked open an oxygen bottle with some diesel on his gloves. They immediately burst into flame when the jet of oxygen hit them.
The Following User Says Thank You to bushboy34 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-12-2017, 10:45 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,052
Thanks: 814
Thanked 7,311 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
Not to argue or anything... but...

In astronomy and atomic physics, doubly ionized oxygen (also known as O III) is the ion O2+.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly_ionized_oxygen

Now you went much further into explaining the "chemical process" of "ionization", but it is still ionized oxygen. Now I admit that I did not look all that up before posting, I just went with what I remembered from my HS astro physics course.
Ionized anything is an atom with one or more electrons stripped off it. Ozone is three oxygen atoms stuck together, but they all three have all their electrons.

Ionized oxygen is quite common in space, I grant you. Having nothing to react with, it persists for a very long time.
Old 01-12-2017, 11:03 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,052
Thanks: 814
Thanked 7,311 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushboy34 View Post
Having worked as an EMT (long ago) and as a welder, I must agree that no, oxygen will not burst into flame as soon as an ignition source is present. That being said, it can cause something that is already burning to burst into flame in its entirety, and so suddenly that it seems to have exploded. Also, a very high concentration of oxygen can actually cause the ignition temperature of some substances (ex: petroleum products) to drop to room temperature, thus causing spontaneous combustion. I witnessed this when a co-worker cracked open an oxygen bottle with some diesel on his gloves. They immediately burst into flame when the jet of oxygen hit them.
Story from my time as a machine tool engineer. We were installing a very large machine in a steel mill, called a scarfing machine. It used huge amounts of oxygen in the process, so there was a 6 inch pipe leading from wherever they made oxygen to our machine. Before it was hooked up, some genius opened the upstream flow gate. Pure O2 at a couple hundred PSI blasted out of the open pipe. I missed it myself, but the guys who were there said all manner of debris came out at about 100 MPH, including a couple of dead rats and somebody's lunch. All in flames.
Old 01-12-2017, 11:12 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
Jack of Deplorable Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,052
Thanks: 814
Thanked 7,311 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unit505 View Post
Medical grade O2 also requires a prescription as does the oxygen concentrator. Funny though, concentrators nor O2 bottles carry any kind of prescription label and no way to trace back to any one person. There are serial numbers on the concentrators but it's a nightmare getting a company to come pick one up. When I was in the casinos, we had literally dozens of them in storage left behind by customers. O2 bottles were the same way. We would call the companies on the labels and they would say that they would come pick them up. In 14 years, I never witnessed them pick up a single concentrator or bottle. So with that, they are not hard to come by without a prescription. Getting a medical grade O2 tank filled is also very easy as long as you have the cash to get one filled. As an EMS Supervisor, I had the O2 prescription for my casinos, but was never asked to produce it. If you have a current inspection on an O2 bottle, you can swap them for a full one at most any welding supply house. Our ambulance services all use the local welding supply house for our medical grade O2. Most any person claiming to be a first responder can get medical grade O2 filled without question.
Judging by the billing summaries I see for mine, Medicare buys the thing over again about every 10-12 months. That's why they don't bother coming to get them. By the end of the first year they're completely amortized. What a racket ! When they first delivered mine, they gave me two bottles with it. I said "I don't need those", but the driver made me keep 'em. Bet they're billing Medicare for those, too.
Old 01-13-2017, 12:02 PM
Mountain's Avatar
Mountain Mountain is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Age: 47
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 5,132
Thanked 5,972 Times in 1,879 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushboy34 View Post
Having worked as an EMT (long ago) and as a welder, I must agree that no, oxygen will not burst into flame as soon as an ignition source is present. That being said, it can cause something that is already burning to burst into flame in its entirety, and so suddenly that it seems to have exploded. Also, a very high concentration of oxygen can actually cause the ignition temperature of some substances (ex: petroleum products) to drop to room temperature, thus causing spontaneous combustion. I witnessed this when a co-worker cracked open an oxygen bottle with some diesel on his gloves. They immediately burst into flame when the jet of oxygen hit them.

The one place I would disagree with a lack of spontaneous ignition where oxygen is concerned is with any steel metal in the presence of raised oxygen levels. Pure oxygen will ignite steel wool and other forms of steel on contact with no need for any kind of ignition source. At what percentage level oxygen would be safe around steel products I don't know, but after reading the horror stories of the Russian astronauts and the American astronauts burned to death by oxygen flash over within sealed compartments, boy that is one thing I would advise overly extreme caution on.
The Following User Says Thank You to Mountain For This Useful Post:
Old 01-15-2017, 11:49 AM
Propofol's Avatar
Propofol Propofol is offline
1, 2, 3 - HAM I am!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: in a house...sometimes, someone's else house...other times, contracted house made of tarp or canvas
Age: 72
Posts: 391
Thanks: 367
Thanked 234 Times in 153 Posts
Default

I would say that you really do not want to breathe 100% oxygen for long periods of times. If you go on and decide to do this for your whole house, please do it away in the country and have at least 25 acres all around. That boom will not be small.
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net