I’ve seen a rather high number of posts about that liberals basically can’t be survivalists and some posts that they aren’t welcome. I think it would be interesting to see a poll about what people in general think about this subject. So do you think that liberals can be survivalists?
Can a liberal be a survivalist? Absolutely. They may not agree on firearms and such, but who is to say they aren't able to stockpile supplies, learn survival skills and the like?
For example, Neil Strauss (author of Emergency: This Book can Save your Life) seemed to fit this in the beginning of his book: aversion to guns, even seeing survivalists as nut-jobs. However, with a little research he warmed to the idea and became a full-blown survivalist himself.
I suspect Liberals think that the "Government" will save then like it did to those people the New Orleans during Katrina. Therefore they will not prep or take any other proactive steps after the SHTF to save themselves. FXjohn may be the exception...
Can a liberal be a survivalist? Absolutely. They may not agree on firearms and such, but who is to say they aren't able to stockpile supplies, learn survival skills and the like?
The question should be "could conservatives survive without talk radio ,telling them how to think?"
Take an old hippie,like me ,We are liberal and we survive,Conservatives start wars,gripe about the sun coming up and basically whine like the bitches they are.
As for my previous post, I was merely saying that in general, liberals would seem to oppose guns. Perhaps I should have enunciated and said "anti-gun liberals"
As for my previous post, I was merely saying that in general, liberals would seem to oppose guns. Perhaps I should have enunciated and said "anti-gun liberals"
I understand. Gun control is more attached to liberal politicians, but don't forget about James Brady. It's an odd inconsistency when it comes to dem vs. rep and shows those parties aren't clearly aligned and defined as liberal vs. conservative. Individuals tend to vary a lot more than politicians on any given issue.
I believe in personal freedom and progressive change.
On most social issues I believe in individual freedom to live as one chooses. Fulfilling and protecting those freedoms as intended by the constitution. Economically, industrially, politically.... I believe we need reform. Our two dominant parties just throw money at problems. We're already spending beyond our means and need to redo and make do with what we have in a sustainable way. I think there's plenty to go around if we could dig out the corruption and thievery. I don't want to soap box here, but for any particular issue you wish to discuss I'd be more than happy to share my views in another thread.
"Liberals" started Mother Earth News,the antiwar movement w/guns,bombs,etc,built Apple computers,protested corporate America,Survivorman was a hippie,"live off he land" was coined at Woodstock and the communes across the country,and basically changed the oulook.
"Conservatives" got us in Vietnam,raised chicken hawks like GWB,and let corporate America control everything.Most conservatives sit on their ass complaining.
What's a troll?
"Liberals" started Mother Earth News,the antiwar movement w/guns,bombs,etc,built Apple computers,protested corporate America,Survivorman was a hippie,"live off he land" was coined at Woodstock and the communes across the country,and basically changed the oulook.
"Conservatives" got us in Vietnam,raised chicken hawks like GWB,and let corporate America control everything.Most conservatives sit on their ass complaining.
What's a troll?
Conservative values,in this political context,are easy to got to war(Bush),support our big corporations like Haliburton(Cheney),and favor the wealthy over the middle class(tax cuts for the rich).
Conservative values,in this political context,are easy to got to war(Bush),support our big corporations like Haliburton(Cheney),and favor the wealthy over the middle class(tax cuts for the rich).
Tell me about liberals then. What are the core liberal values?
You also seem to define liberal/conservative in the realm of our gubermunt. I was speaking more of the real people in the real world.
If your repeating stereotypical traits and writing back in the syntax of protest posters is all you have, perhaps you really are a troll and I am doing a disservice to the forum by responding to your posts. That is the liberal in me though; I like to give everyone a chance.
Not sure what hating or being afraid of immigrants has to do with conservatism - but "logical, human(?) immigration policy" is pretty much either "build a fence" (conservatives) or "Let them vote without showing an I.D." (liberals) You pick.
I think both sides agree on this, although it is much too simplistic to be a political view. The question then, obviously, becomes "How do you achieve that peace?" That is where the differences come in. Liberals think they can sit down and "negotiate" with people like Achmadinijhad and Kim Jong Il. Conservatives would rather warn them to stop what they're doing and then drop bombs when they don't.
Sadly, none of us on here know our governments foreign policy/intelligence
so we cant say for sure. Foreign policy in the us is dictated by the council on foreign relations, and has been for upwards of 40 years.
and the majority of public schools are just re-education centers to propagate liberal ideologies (things like global warming, intentional Indian genocide, and the persecution, rather than the enabling, of blacks and more recently women, the evils of capitalism, evolution in place of religion, homosexual tolerance etc.) instead of somewhere to learn math.
I get that, but there is no winning side here bro, both sides allow this to continue.
I believe that the left must have a "boogie man" to fulfill their belief structure----- when George Bush fell I wondered who would be next and it turned out to be uninsureds (health care bill = universal health care [socialism]), Global Warming (cap and trade = kills capitalism [socialism]), the Tea Party (taxing without representing = spreading wealth [socialism]) and Militias (banning guns and brass = 2nd amendment killer [socialism]).
Your not getting it brother. Remember me talking about the c.f.r. doing our foreign policy?
well every sec of state except 1 for the last 40 years has been a member of the c.f.r., no matter what party was in office.
let me share some of their wisdom with you.
In the April 1974 issue of “Foreign Affairs” the Council of Foreign Relations’ own publication, when CFR member and former Secretary of State Richard N. Gardner, wrote an article entitled “The Hard Road to World Order” in which he stated: · “In short, the house of world order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down. An end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned assault…” one way to garner public support for new international treaties would be to propagandize world wide predicaments. If people are scared of terrorism, financial chaos or global warming, they will be willing to cede their national sovereignty, freedom and liberties for global authority.”
Agreed. Except right now it is because of a political party. Along with the fact that all other nations have already embraced the same ideologies and are failing at the same rate - so there is no one left to help us if the S does HTF.
Sadly, none of us on here know our governments foreign policy/intelligence
so we cant say for sure. Foreign policy in the us is dictated by the council on foreign relations, and has been for upwards of 40 years.
CFR has no power, only insight and guidance. The Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense are the string pullers. They are appointed by the President. We can see what is going on, what has happened, and what it means - that's more than enough.
I get that, but there is no winning side here bro, both sides allow this to continue.
You're pretty close to being right, except you're ignoring the fact that it is the President that chooses their cabinet. As far as Kool Aid goes...I'm thirsty, but I don't like the flavor being served right now. I was over-simplifying the comparison, but it is valid. Why do you think our relationship with Israel goes from great with open communication, to basically, what we've got now? The CFR changes their mind depending on the cycle of the moon? No, it is because of the appointed personnel.
no it's not because of a political party, each admin does a little bit at a time, for the last 100 years.
Im a liberal and Ide say Im pretty prepared. Just cause your a liberal dont mean you cant lol. Ide say thats a pretty ignorant and even arrogant view. I have over 3500.00 in survival equipment/disaster prepardness. A shotgun, a M1A SOCOM.308 and a springfield XD .45. Also have prob another 2k in camping stuff and random military surplus goodies. Been on two 4 day survival camp things when I was 18 and 19. Only thing I havent covered is backpacking which I will this year. But I can hunt, fish and all that. (dont choose to unless I need it, no reason imho to kill an animal when you can pick food up at the market., but dont mind doing it and actually like it) Especially in CA where there isnt as bad of a need to control populations of game really. (Fishing is an exception)
CFR has no power, only insight and guidance. The Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense are the string pullers. They are appointed by the President. We can see what is going on, what has happened, and what it means - that's more than enough.
No your ignoring the fact that the cfr chooses the president, you think it's a fluke that a think tank that writes a rag titled foreign affairs, has had a member of their group in charge of america's foreign policy for 40 years?
Why do you think our relationship with Israel goes from great with open communication, to basically, what we've got now? The CFR changes their mind depending on the cycle of the moon? No, it is because of the appointed personnel.
If you see survivalism as a purely libertarian movement, no they cannot. But then, conservatives can't either. I'd rather not see survivalism as a purely a political movement. If you see it that way, survivalism overrides any political ideas. I know it has been suggested liberals don't have the right mindset, because they are not selfish and care about other people. On the contrary, if we cared about no one, there wouldn't be much use in surviving.
I'm laughing at the quote, not at the person who said it.
liberals don't care about people, they don't care about your individual safety, or your property and civil rights. The only thing they are interested in is running society as a whole, like a machine.
liberals are social engineers. They try to run society, and if that means they have to take away your money, your means to defend yourself or even your kids, too bad for you.
I don't think political affiliation has anything to do with whether or not you're a survivalist/prepper. And shouldn't have anything to do with it, either. Some of the most independent minded, open, honest, and socially accepting people I know are liberals. And not all of them are Obama fans, or fans of radical change in the US, either. I've also seen liberal survivalists, they have just as much grasp on things as any conservative does, they just have a liberal opinion.
That said, I will admit that most liberals DO think that the government as the power and capability to help everyone in the US given a massive crisis. And most that I've met do NOT think that survivalism is way of life that should be encouraged, and they consider it "hoarding". You'll find a lot less liberals living this kind of lifestyle. The majority are conservatives. But that does not mean that a liberal can't be a survivalist, because anyone can be a survivalist.
What if I'm a straight, white, Christian, constitutional extremist? Seems like I will have a lot of people worrying about me...[glances at door to make sure the NSA isn't kicking it in]
I honestly don't know. I am basing that on the fact that I have known very few liberals who lived their lives using good old common sense. Most of them thought life was tough, were sentimental and looking backward rather than forward, and were always trying to be do-gooders or having a pity-party for themselves. Now while some of those character traits are fine, I never saw the majority of them as forward thinkers and planners. That's why I wouldn't say they could be or couldn't be preppers or survivalists. I just would have my doubts...
Why couldn't they be I'm moderately liberal and i have a gun and prep. I think your just looking at the far left who hate people doing things for themselves.
Liberals are facists in waiting.It dosent matter what tittle they get: Marxist,Communist,National Socialist,etc. They are all enemies of the Constitution of the USA and enemies of freedom.They are the ones who invented all the great programs like Gun control for example.Progressives are progressing tword something which is Totalitarian in nature. Making all of us slaves. Can a liberal be a survivor? God I hope not.
Not all liberals are socialists. I was ultra liberal when I was younger, I really believed that we could help people less fortunate, I believed that liberalism equated with freedom. Now I'm older and possibly I'm simply cynical or merely jaded, but I'm definitely conservative.
However, I don't hate people who don't agree with me and I don't paint them all with the same brush. Maybe they're where I was a few years ago and maybe someday they will be where I am now. Whatever.
Do we really need to categorize everyone? And do we need to be so mean-spirited about it?
Final thought, does anyone really think they can bring someone over to their side, or even get someone to understand or appreciate their side if all you can do is call them names?
Common courtesy and genuine decency still go a long way in my opinion.
My stance is no because allmost all libs i have meet in my life can't shoot,would cringe at a dead animal would break down after someone called them a name.Expect everyone else to take care of them like uncle sam.Most would cringe at the sight of a gun.Prove me wrong if you are a lib but in my life i have yet to see one.
For those libs,trolls ect. there is no post shtf wellfare or food stamps and the real world is harsh.
I can hunt it down, kill it, dress it and cook it - no matter what IT is.
I worked for Dr. who was so verbally abuse, he could have made a drill sgt cry. Most employees lasted a few months, I lasted 22 years.
Being poor as dirt, I could have my share of gov. assistance, but I want no part of it. If it came down to it I would sooner pick food out of the trash than stand in line for foodstamps.
My daddy is a liberal and he taught me the world was harsh and how to be ready for it. I am a liberal, I do prep, and my survival chances are just as good as any conservatives.
I will say off the bat... I consider myself a "Liberal".. although I do try to reduce the amount of division and find commonality between the left and right paradigm because I feel it is essential and ironically.. I see many places of common ground.
That being said.
I do believe that Liberals can be "Preppers"...
I believe that it is a matter of personal responsiblity to prepare to take care of yourself and your family in an emergency.. whether it is 1 day.. 1 week or 3 months or even up to a year...
But I think where the Liberal mindset diverges from the Right regarding survival is not so much a naive belief in the goodness in the world.. but the essential factor that we DO have to come together.
I honestly don't want to live in a world scenario where families are hunkered down with their ammo and food in their bomb shelter ... How dismal.... If things ever get that bad.. count me out!.. That kind of mentality is how we get into many of the violent and horrible situations we do.
I have discussed and participated in workshops and movements that call for a getting back to basics and learning homesteading skills again.. The Transition Town movement... is a Positive movement that seeks to reshape our local communties (in advance) so they are more resilient in the face of disaster or shortages or whatever.. ...
They call for getting to know your neighbors.. Encouraging LOCAL commerce and supporting local commerce and re-skilling.. .and knowing who you can turn to who has the neccessary skills..
Lack of trust.. lack of ability to communicate.. our divisions between the Left and Right paradigm is the weak link... and we have an opportunity to over come that and be stronger in the face of adversity..
but if you keep viewing the OTHER as the "wacko'.. it will never happen.
Peace.. (and I truly do mean that in a sincere way).
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