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Old 06-09-2017, 11:24 PM
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I am not Catholic, nor am I even a Christian but I have always had much respect for Pope John Paul II, I find that he was a great ambassador of the faith and did a lot of things that at the time were unheard of for a Pope.

He was Pope for most of my life at the time of his death, and I was always interested in his travels and dealings with political and religious figures of all type.

Of his life and works he has definitely shown to be worthy of being called "The Great", I have not been as impressed with his successors.

How do Catholics view him in retrospect?
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:27 PM
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I am not Catholic, nor am I even a Christian but I have always had much respect for Pope John Paul II, I find that he was a great ambassador of the faith and did a lot of things that at the time were unheard of for a Pope.

He was Pope for most of my life at the time of his death, and I was always interested in his travels and dealings with political and religious figures of all type.

Of his life and works he has definitely shown to be worthy of being called "The Great", I have not been as impressed with his successors.

How do Catholics view him in retrospect?
To me he is a saint. He was an amazing an compassionate man who stood for HIS principles. He was not without fault but no human is.

His direct successor will be forgotten in history. However the current one falls along the same lines as Pope John Paul II. Very good choice they made picking him.
Old 06-09-2017, 11:39 PM
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To me he is a saint. He was an amazing an compassionate man who stood for HIS principles. He was not without fault but no human is.

His direct successor will be forgotten in history. However the current one falls along the same lines as Pope John Paul II. Very good choice they made picking him.
JPII spent his entire tenure depositing that Communism is incompatible with Christianity, while the current Pope is a communist hypocrite. What do they have in common?
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:05 AM
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Communism has infected the Catholic Church.

They don't teach self responsibility or accountability. They now teach a different approach to theology. That we are our brothers keeper.

I deny that view. YOU and only YOU are responsible. Your actions your choices.

This pope is a Marxist/communist.

And if you follow him - I call you target.
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:16 AM
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JPII spent his entire tenure depositing that Communism is incompatible with Christianity, while the current Pope is a communist hypocrite. What do they have in common?
As a Catholic, they both are great men, they focus on children, the poor and treating others with respect and dignity. They are both men of strong faith, they invoked the invitation to bring God into ones life and embrace him.

Neither man was/is without faults and controversies. Both men are still beloved.

They have many difference but the similarities I see in them as a Catholic make me want to belong to the church again. They both have great understanding of people and people love to follow them as the leader of the church. Both were highly educated and spoke multiple languages. They could both engage BIG crowds and go off script yet chose words and message very carefully.

I'm sorry for people like you, who can't see past politics with anything. You can't embrace the man for what he brings to people past political ideology.

I often hear about communism on these forums and how America is on the slippery slope towards that and as someone who's viewed communism/socialism up close, I can honestly say most have zero clue of what they speak of. They live in an echo chamber and have no understanding of the world outside they political or touchable view. Those same people who stigmatize and degrade communism/socialism will defend and prop up a life long communist who has hated America for his full life. That seems pretty hypocritical!
Old 06-10-2017, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc_Shane View Post
I am not Catholic, nor am I even a Christian but I have always had much respect for Pope John Paul II, I find that he was a great ambassador of the faith and did a lot of things that at the time were unheard of for a Pope.

He was Pope for most of my life at the time of his death, and I was always interested in his travels and dealings with political and religious figures of all type.

Of his life and works he has definitely shown to be worthy of being called "The Great", I have not been as impressed with his successors.

How do Catholics view him in retrospect?
Agreed!

I recall reading a story about him traveling to a prison in some 3rd world nation. He insisted on seeing and speaking to several of the most harden men the prison had to offer. One man who was standing in cell in his own filth got a surprise visit from John Paul. He entered his cell, took off his fine white coat and with some water washed this man's feet while he sat on his cot. It changed that man forever.

I'm not Catholic but it made me a fan!
Old 06-10-2017, 06:12 AM
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Those same people who stigmatize and degrade communism/socialism will defend and prop up a life long communist who has hated America for his full life.
Who might that be? Serious question.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:07 PM
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Who might that be? Serious question.
It's not hard to find the Putin love, those that praise his leadership, the country and Russia. Sorry I don't have the time or the want to link it but I'm sure if you did a search you would see it for yourself.
Old 06-14-2017, 09:21 PM
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It's not hard to find the Putin love, those that praise his leadership, the country and Russia. Sorry I don't have the time or the want to link it but I'm sure if you did a search you would see it for yourself.

I think Putin is still the enemy but he is a strong leader for his country, he has traits that any country should want in a leader, but also a few that no one should want.

However the thread is about one man in particular, that would be John Paul II so let's stay on topic
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:32 PM
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I was raised Mennonite, but came to view John Paul II as one of the greatest church leaders in modern history. His life under communist oppression is impressive, and I think it gave him a very unique 'insider' perspective as he began to influence communism in Europe.

Here is something I found, a very brief outline of his life:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/his...communism.html

I remember the historic visit he made with Gorbachev, and what later followed throughout eastern Europe.

I'm not Catholic, but when I heard he had died, my first thought, literally the first thing that popped into my mind, was that a light had gone out in the world. It was profoundly sad to me. I was glad to hear he was canonized comparatively quickly.

He truly was a man of peace, and I'm afraid we won't see any more like him in our lifetimes.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:05 PM
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I was raised Mennonite, but came to view John Paul II as one of the greatest church leaders in modern history. His life under communist oppression is impressive, and I think it gave him a very unique 'insider' perspective as he began to influence communism in Europe.

Here is something I found, a very brief outline of his life:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/his...communism.html

I remember the historic visit he made with Gorbachev, and what later followed throughout eastern Europe.

I'm not Catholic, but when I heard he had died, my first thought, literally the first thing that popped into my mind, was that a light had gone out in the world. It was profoundly sad to me. I was glad to hear he was canonized comparatively quickly.

He truly was a man of peace, and I'm afraid we won't see any more like him in our lifetimes.

You are absolutely correct about St.John Paul II being influenced by his upbringing. He saw the horrors of communism and focused on eliminating it.

Another perspective on Pope Francis is based on the same criteria. He grew up under Peron and saw first hand the extreme poverty that the fascist gov't. did nothing to fix. So his focus on the poor is understandable, and following the example of Jesus, he himself lives a spartan lifestyle, even giving up his own apartment to an immigrant family. God chooses His leaders for a reason, and I will not condemn any validly elected Pontiff. I may not understand nor maybe even agree with some things he says, but I trust Jesus to do what is right.
Old 06-19-2017, 02:24 PM
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John Paul II was just a man.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:02 PM
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Yes, but he was in a very unique position and was able to go places and do things that politicians of whatever rank were not.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:41 PM
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John Paul II was just a man.

Yup.

Donald Trump is just a man.

The Apostles were just men.


JPII was elected to do a job, no different than Trump. We can only hope that Trump asks for and receives the same guidance.
Old 06-19-2017, 05:09 PM
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Yup.

Donald Trump is just a man.

The Apostles were just men.


JPII was elected to do a job, no different than Trump. We can only hope that Trump asks for and receives the same guidance.
That is right there is a great book, "12 Ordinary Men."
Old 06-19-2017, 06:41 PM
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That he was a good hearted man I believe. But I also believe he was way too far into Marian Doctrine. This is probably because he lost his own mother when young. But I'm still not comfortable with his emphasis on and devotion to Mary.

I know the official position of the CC is respect/veneration of Mary, not worship. While that might be the official doctrinal position of a corporate body, I'm convinced many individual members do worship her. Perhaps that does not describe the Catholics on this board.

It is sometimes a fine line.
Old 06-20-2017, 12:43 AM
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That he was a good hearted man I believe. But I also believe he was way too far into Marian Doctrine. This is probably because he lost his own mother when young. But I'm still not comfortable with his emphasis on and devotion to Mary.

I know the official position of the CC is respect/veneration of Mary, not worship. While that might be the official doctrinal position of a corporate body, I'm convinced many individual members do worship her. Perhaps that does not describe the Catholics on this board.

It is sometimes a fine line.
I think the fine line originates from the different definitions and uses of such words as praying, reverence, worship, etc.
Mary is the Mother of Jesus. His very existence on earth is because of her, and she stood with him throughout his entire life, through his death on the cross and beyond. No other human can claim that. Jesus' first public miracle was done at Mary's insistence. He even balked, but did as she wished. Think about that for a minute. Who gets to tell God what to do, and He does it! So why is anyone surprised that Jesus has elevated his Mother to such an exalted status? She was allowed to live out her natural life , but then was brought up to heaven in body as well as spirit. Why is that such a stretch to think that Jesus would honor his Mother to the greatest status possible? If your Mom went through what Mary did for you, would you not treat her specially? Why do some think that her exalted status somehow detracts from Jesus? Makes no sense.
Early Church writings and handed down tradition allude to Mary's veneration, and her status has been affirmed by all the Church since the beginning. But since the Bible does not detail her assumption and subsequent adoration, there are many who take that as proof of her incidental "baby factory" status.

So...how could this discardable fetus delivery system appear to thousands of people since 1531 on the hill of Tepeyac in Mexico, up to Medjugorge just recently? Very possibly ongoing right now. We are currently observing the 100 year anniversary of our Lady's appearance at Fatima, Portugal, where she performed the miracle of the sun which thousands of people saw in person. And these were not just faithful Catholics. There were very skeptical non-Catholics as well as newspaper reporters who experienced and reported the same phenomenon. There are so many incidents throughout history where Mary has been cited as the intervening factor in improbable or impossible situations. Many hopeless battles have been won because of her. Here's a Wiki snippet about Notre Dame de Prompt Secours, a church in New Orleans dedicated to Mary which Andrew Jackson personally believed to be instrumental in the lopsided victory at the Battle of New Orleans...

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In 1815, General Andrew Jackson's 6,000 American troops faced 15,000 British soldiers on the plains of Chalmette. On the eve of the Battle of New Orleans, New Orleans residents joined the Ursuline sisters at their convent in the French Quarter to pray throughout the night, imploring the help of Our Lady of Prompt Succor.[4] On the morning of January 8, the Very Rev. William Dubourg, Vicar General, offered Mass at the altar on which the statue of Our Lady of Prompt Succor had been placed. Cannon fire could be heard from the chapel. The Prioress of the Ursuline convent, Mother Ste. Marie Olivier de Vezin, made a vow to have a Mass of Thanksgiving sung annually should the American forces win. At the very moment of communion, a courier ran into the chapel to inform all those present that the British had been defeated. They had become confused by a fog and wandered into a swamp.[2] The Mass ended with the singing of the Te Deum.[1] An annual Mass of Thanksgiving has been held January 8 ever since.[4] The 200 anniversary of the Battle of New Orleans occurred in 2015, and commemorative events were held.
It's reported that Jackson came to the Church to honor and thank everyone for the prayers.


I won't get into the details of every apparition, as I frankly do not remember them all and would research the same way that any of you can do. Suffice to say that Catholics are completely convinced of Mary's special place and special role with regard to trying to get humanity back to her Son. Her invariable message is always "Keep praying to Jesus. Repentance. Fasting. Atonement". Not "pray to me", always "pray to Jesus". Always.

So for those who think that either these are some elaborate hoaxes (you gotta be kidding, given the number of people involved), or maybe even some trickery by Satan himself (yeah, Satan will trick us into praying to Jesus more...), I invite you to just look it up. Lord knows the people on these Boards will spend hours researching the most arcane facts, mostly to stick a thumb in somebody's eye over a mis-quote , but how many Christians are, um, Christian enough to actually read the histories and documentation of Mary's appearances and the miracles and conversions attributed to them?
It's nothing to be afraid of. If you investigate and still are unconvinced, so be it. The message is still the same, but it is awesome to see and hear it on a continuing basis, with miracles to boot!


So, sorry for the long wind, but there are so many here who only know about Catholicism what they learned through heresay or other usually negative reporting. And we definitely have a few Protestants and Orthodox who seem to hold 500 or 1,000 year grudges. The Catholic Church strives to be all about forgiveness and mercy, because that is what Jesus taught in His Ministry.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:59 AM
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JPII spent his entire tenure depositing that Communism is incompatible with Christianity, while the current Pope is a communist hypocrite. What do they have in common?
Pope Francis is just another common dime-a-dozen South American leftist... a cookie cutter end product of a socialist society of failures.

He claims the greatest threat to the world is climate change... while being completely silent on the extermination of Christians by Muslims in the Middle East.

What a spineless worthless sack of...

Greg
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:02 AM
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Being a leader is hard and you are confronted with many issues, all pressing and highly important. Some issues are being push towards your face more than others. Pope John Paul (being Polish) fought against the Soviets with everything he got. In the process he forgot the children that were abused all around the world by his priests and clergy and did nothing to address this problem. Whatever God decides about John-Paul we will know later but the guy was not confirmed as a Saint by proper God miracles, signs or works.

If I will be Pope and I am a decent person than I can do great things from that position. To actually be a saintly person is another thing entirely.
Old 06-20-2017, 10:16 AM
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Communism has infected the Catholic Church.
Leftism feminizes religion by rotting it from the inside out.

Greg
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