Survivalist Forum banner

A question about propane storage in suburbia

5K views 33 replies 17 participants last post by  refugee 
#1 ·
I recently converted my generator to propane and Im glad I don't have to store gas anymore. Now I have cans of propane to store and Im wondering what other people do. I have 20LB tanks because they are easier to move and use the than the larger 80+LB tanks and we can use a separate tank to run the heater generator, ect and used propane tanks are cheap & easy to find. The city dosnt allow bulk propane storage tanks like people I rural areas have in city limits so the tanks have to be manageable for the wife and/or kids to lift. I didn't give much thought to keeping 5 gallons of gas in the garage but now I have well over 100LB of propane stored. That much propane in an enclosed space has been weighing on my mind. Do other people store large amounts of propane indoors?
 
#2 ·
You cannot keep them in the garage. That's a recipe for disaster.

I've got a similar strategy to you. I've obviously got no idea what you're house / yard layout looks like. What I did was built a small platform in back yard behind a wood shed. There's a small overhang to make a tiny roof and there are side boards around this platform as well. But it's got open slats. Bottom line is the tanks are outdoors, a little ways away from the house and far from any ignition source, but still protected - mostly - from the elements, and no casual observer would see them unless they intentionally walked the whole perimeter of the yard and went behind the wood shed. The only problem with them outside is if it got REALLY HOT and the pressure built to where the relief valves were to leak a bit. Even then, so what? I'd lose maybe a little bit of gas.

If for some reason you really have to do this indoors, it better be super well ventilated. Any propane leaking could accumulate because propane is heavier than air and sinks. I'll admit I've stored some of the little 16oz containers in the house or garage and there's one attached to my blowtorch. And yeah, those sit on shelves everyplace from hardware stores to Wallyworld. But you've kind of reminded me that's a bad idea and I'm going to move them out too.

Some industrial places may have proper storage cages for these things. But they'll also have means to clear out leakages, procedures, etc.

Propane is generally super safe. Tanks don't explode easily. You can probably shoot at them with a bunch of guns and they maybe won't even puncture and even if they do they might not blow up. So maybe your probability for something bad happening is low. But the consequences if something did happen would be pretty severe. Go to YouTube and search for "propane tank explosion video" You'll find some myth buster stuff, but also see some nice kabooms.

Bottom line is as with all things, it's your call. And opinions on here will be the usual all over the place thing. But here's the thing, there seems to be very little downside to putting them outside if you can and very little upside, (with possible - however unlikely), extreme downside for keeping them inside.
 
#18 ·
I completely agree.
The frequency of a propane tank failure is low, in part because of the regulated (by law) design of the vessel. Unlike a gas can, a propane tank is not designed to be refueled by the end-user and thus the designs for the valve and seals can be more rigorous. Additionally, because it is a compressed gas, the design of the tank has to be more sturdy with fewer failure modes.
But that said, the notion of storing one in your house, unvented or inadequately vented is just asking for trouble. If there is a small leak and you are standing up and in calm air (i.e. indoors), you may not even notice it because, being heavier than air, it may be pooling up to your chins. Until a spark or equivalent triggers a very serious problem.
And keeping the tank outside with an inverted trash can on them is not something I'd recommend either, unless you provide a small breathing space between the rim of the can and the ground, to let any leakage vent.
Again, failures are rare but nothing is foolproof. I do not keep our barbecue propane tank indoors, our five-gallon gas cans indoors, or most combustibles that are stored in volume.
While traveling in AZ, my father came upon the freshly exploded wreckage of a towed trailer that carried it's five-gallon propane tanks externally near the hitch. The fire trucks had just arrived and when he pulled over to offer help he learned of the circumstances. The trailer (for vacationing) was completely destroyed and burning. If anyone was inside they would not have survived. We did not learn the cause and it wouldn't much affect my perspective.
Knowing that such a thing could happen to your home should be sufficiently motivating.
B
 
#3 ·
one of those 20 pound tanks holds the equivalent energy as 2.5 gallons of gas, assuming your conversion is running at peak efficiency. I dont know why you would be happy to convert to lp unless you had a big tank out back. one 5 gallon can of gasoline is easier to fill, cheaper to fill, easier to transport than an equivalent amount of lp in small consumer sized tanks.
 
#4 ·
I dont know why you would be happy to convert to lp unless you had a big tank out back. one 5 gallon can of gasoline is easier to fill, cheaper to fill, easier to transport than an equivalent amount of lp in small consumer sized tanks.
For a portable generator, I'd say the best bet is a conversion kit to run on tri-fuel so you don't have to worry about the fuel source as much.

As for gas, it doesn't store well for more than six months or so, maybe a year or more with stabilizer. Propane can sit there for years just fine. As well, some folks aren't really good about cleaning and maintaining their generators. Go to the contractor supply / repair place after any major storm with power outage. You'll see guys lined up with their non-working generators with gunked up carbs and lines they don't know how to fix.

Lastly, at least in my town, even when there's been major power outages and gas stations were effectively out of business, the propane company still had trucks running deliveries. So you can - maybe - get propane when you can't even get gas. (In this case though, you also might need some way to get the propane from your big tank the gas company fills into the smaller ones if that's needed.)

Lots of benefits to propane; if you treat it with respect as with any fuel.
 
#6 ·
If you are handy I would build something like Scott describes except make at least two shelves so you can stack them.

100 lb bottles would probably be a lot more efficient as far as space needed. Maybe a guy could make or buy some kind of cart to move them. I have a few 100s myself and I need to do that. You can "walk" a 100#r on a smooth hard surface, but my ground is so soft and uneven I just throw them on the ground and roll em.
 
#8 ·
I didn't know an airtight container would preserve gasoline. I went to propane because I have built a business on gas going bad from sitting long periods. I repair small engines and 95% of the non-runners are just choked up from gas going bad across winter. And its easier for the wife and/or kids to use in the event Im not home when the power goes out. Nobody has to deal with pouring gas, they just hook up a propane tank. Also, we have other equipment that run on propane so I thought using only one fuel source that isn't gasoline and has a long shelf life made sense. The cost of propane is negligible if you do it right, just watch Craig's list and you can get full 20LB propane tanks for $10 each. I looked at commercial propane storage cages online and I was surprised to find that the majority are made for inside use. Other than the little 1LB bottles, I have never seen propane stored indoors in a commercial or industrial setting, but it must be done or they wouldn't have so many styles and configurations of indoor storage cages for 20LB and larger tanks. Just about everyone I know has a 20LB propane tank in their garage for the BBQ and nobody seems to give it a second thought, neither did I till my propane tank supply got big. I agree with ScottPreps that though propane is generally super safe, an accident is unthinkable since I have enough propane stored to take out the house across the street if things were to go really wrong. One of those cheap crap tin sheds with some holes drilled in it for ventilation would probably do the job.
 
#11 ·
Two things:

* I was unaware that using an airtight container as Roberto suggests is a better solution for keeping gas fresh. I'm also not at all sure it's a good idea. If you have a truly sealed container and the temperature rises even a little, so will the pressure. Seems like another potential risk area. Maybe not. I don't really know about this other than awareness that many fuel systems have safety valves / vents for exactly this purpose; gas expansion. Now, of course this creates the other problem of water in gas. (E.g. airplanes have fuel vents, but if heat causes some gas dumping, the air that's left behind can have water condense out and cause risk for the engine if fuel sumps are not used.) So... bottom line is gas storage has a lot of issues, no matter how you want to do it.

* Yeah, people store all kinds of crap in their houses. Hardly anything ever goes wrong. Sort of. At least, not that you hear about. Because you're not listening. CNN will show you the latest travesty in the mid-east or gunshot victim if it was cop on citizen with a protest, but not much about your local car accidents or minor propane explosions, unless there's some good video.

One reason for this is that yes, it is a VERY SAFE fuel to store and use and it's rare bad stuff happens. (As a percentage: http://www.propane101.com/propanestatistics.htm See towards bottom of page.) But when something does go wrong, it's often a very loud kind of wrong with some damage and maybe death associated. Same as anything else, all it takes for this rare case to be you is some weird chain of events. One major tenet of accident prevention is to break a link in this chain of events. Since this place is about prepping / survivalism, tactics should be as smart and sensible as practical. Kind of like a firearm, you want your assets quickly accessible / deployable, but safe when not needed.
 
#13 ·
Two things:

* I was unaware that using an airtight container as Roberto suggests is a better solution for keeping gas fresh. I'm also not at all sure it's a good idea. If you have a truly sealed container and the temperature rises even a little, so will the pressure. Seems like another potential risk area. Maybe not. I don't really know about this other than awareness that many fuel systems have safety valves / vents for exactly this purpose; gas expansion. Now, of course this creates the other problem of water in gas. (E.g. airplanes have fuel vents, but if heat causes some gas dumping, the air that's left behind can have water condense out and cause risk for the engine if fuel sumps are not used.) So... bottom line is gas storage has a lot of issues, no matter how you want to do it.

if you have a very large tank it must be vented because even 1 psi is 144 lbs per sq foot and if your tank is hundreds of square feet in surface area thats a huge force. I live in florida and my gas is stored in an unairconditioned area. maybe not as hot as you get anywhere int he nation, but close. i use older 5 gallon blitz built containers. when it is hot out they noticeably bulge, but I have dozens and never had a single one fail. is this a danger? yes. but keep things in perspective.

gasoline is flamible as a gas, not a liquid. when you store a 5 gallon container of gasoline most all of it is a liquid with a very small amount as a vapor under fairly low pressure. lp on the other hand boils well bellow zero and at chilly ac temps it's stored at 100 psi, at hot garage temps it's at 250 psi.
 
#14 ·
Your gas cans will also do better if you squeeze most of the air out of them so that the sides of the can are concaved a bit. (Never fill them all the way)

Now when it gets warmer they expand to normal sized until it's truely hot then they ballon out a bit.

Once they ballon you can always squeeze the air out of them again if needed!

I've carried gas during hot southern summers in vehicles using this method with success.

Modern cans where mandated by idiots who had never used a can and they are mostly useless for many tasks!

SD
 
#17 ·
I've never heard of a city disallowing a residential propane installation.
Are you in a metropolitan area like Brooklyn or something?

If you're in a house in the suburbs, call up a propane company to double check.

If you can get it done, it is definitely the way to go. Even if you have to install an appliance to get there, like a stove or gas logs. A propane company will be glad to quote it for you.
People will tell you to buy your own tank which has its advantages, but if you shop around, you might find companies who will give you a loaner at a very reasonable annual minimum / fee.

And bulk gas is much cheaper than having those grill tanks filled.
 
#33 ·
Read the fine print on the exchange tanks. The only have about 2.5 to 3 gallons in them, and you are paying for the convience of exchanging at a gas station or convience/grocery store instead of driving to an actual refill place, and waiting while they refill your tank.
Some places do refils, but still charge the exchange rate, and only fill up to the exchange rate, not what the tank is made to hold.
What you want is a place that charges by the liquid gallon. There you will get a full tank - up to 4.5 gallons or so, and you will pay less for it.

We heated our whole house with some 20lbs and 40lb tanks for 4 months last year, so we know. We started out with the 20lb exchanges, and then got smart, buying a coupla 40's, and refilling all the tanks, except the one hooked up to the house, at one time.
Amayzingly the refilled 20lb tanks lasted longer than the exchange ones. Then we read the fine print on the exchange tanks. Doh!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top