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Old 03-06-2011, 05:15 AM
Cumulunimbus Cumulunimbus is offline
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I don’t merely aim to avoid hunger, but also want to prevent malnourishment. The big killer after WTSHTF might not be death by starvation, but possibly more probable death by disease.

Malnourishment makes you susceptible to disease. So prepping without any consideration of dietary balance is taking a huge risk. It is how I started out, however. But when your preps are well under way, I think it is wise to get on with more thought to how you score on vitamins, minerals and protein quality. Variety is of course a point to avoid food fatigue, but can’t take priority over nourishment. But there are other ways take care of food fatigue than to succumb to empty calories…

To build a long term food storage without considering the nutritional pros and cons of the different foodstuffs, is like buying a gun, but forget about the ammunition.

I think much controversy might just be a result of different time frames. If you consider three weeks or months worth of food a decent goal, then just ignore what I have just said. But if you think what might be needed, are food not just to last the three months of bugging in, but also the lost harvest of the first year, and the partially lost harvest of the next due to looting or your own lack of farming skills, then we are talking.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:52 AM
mountainmansurvival mountainmansurvival is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumulunimbus View Post
I don’t merely aim to avoid hunger, but also want to prevent malnourishment. The big killer after WTSHTF might not be death by starvation, but possibly more probable death by disease.

Malnourishment makes you susceptible to disease. So prepping without any consideration of dietary balance is taking a huge risk. It is how I started out, however. But when your preps are well under way, I think it is wise to get on with more thought to how you score on vitamins, minerals and protein quality. Variety is of course a point to avoid food fatigue, but can’t take priority over nourishment. But there are other ways take care of food fatigue than to succumb to empty calories…

To build a long term food storage without considering the nutritional pros and cons of the different foodstuffs, is like buying a gun, but forget about the ammunition.

I think much controversy might just be a result of different time frames. If you consider three weeks or months worth of food a decent goal, then just ignore what I have just said. But if you think what might be needed, are food not just to last the three months of bugging in, but also the lost harvest of the first year, and the partially lost harvest of the next due to looting or your own lack of farming skills, then we are talking.
My 1 year per person mark is intended to suffice in the event that TSHTF say late summer forcing me and my family to survive until the following mid summer before crops can really be harvested. As I am hoping to get my garden to a point where it can easily supply us with plenty of vegetables, quinoa, potatoes, etc, plus the chickens can supply eggs and on rare occasions meat, plus I can hunt pretty much anywhere around me (Assuming city folk have not come up and killed everything; but that is a different topic), I should have a fairly varied diet.

I am also beginning to can this year and that would be added to the above list. So I intended this to be my "OH SH%#" stash rather then my, "This is all we need" stash.

Does that make sense?
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:34 AM
Cumulunimbus Cumulunimbus is offline
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Originally Posted by mountainmansurvival View Post
My 1 year per person mark is intended to suffice in the event that TSHTF say late summer forcing me and my family to survive until the following mid summer before crops can really be harvested. As I am hoping to get my garden to a point where it can easily supply us with plenty of vegetables, quinoa, potatoes, etc, plus the chickens can supply eggs and on rare occasions meat, plus I can hunt pretty much anywhere around me (Assuming city folk have not come up and killed everything; but that is a different topic), I should have a fairly varied diet.

I am also beginning to can this year and that would be added to the above list. So I intended this to be my "OH SH%#" stash rather then my, "This is all we need" stash.

Does that make sense?
It certainly does! I think you have a very good thing going there. 4 acres garden… WOW

Just stash up on some dietary supplements and you will be fine!

Oh, and, make that parboiled rice, not plain white rice….
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mountainmansurvival View Post
So I intended this to be my "OH SH%#" stash rather then my, "This is all we need" stash.

Does that make sense?
LOL! I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this way. I just didn't name them.

BTW, the way I see it, both the Primary and "OH SH%#" stashes should each be a 9 - 12 months. If something happens in early summer, you won't be able to plant until the following year. But, what happens if that harvest can't sustain you? People raiding your garden, animals getting in, bad weather,... It might be overkill, but, even if that second harvest is good enough to sustain you, what if one down the line can't before you've replenished your primary stash?
Old 03-06-2011, 11:45 AM
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Wow! Great thread, I just want to compliment all. I have nothing to contribute (sorry ) - but I gleened a whole lotta info here!
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanahi View Post
If you don't have an oven, how about fry breads, like tortillas, Indian fry bread, pancakes, etc. Almost all cultures of the world have some kind of flat fry bread, fewer with our kind of bread.

There are also solar ovens, clay ovens, reflector campfire baking, and Dutch ovens, but those are mainly for outdoor cooking, which may be inadvisable during SHTF because of the smoke and smells from them that would attract everyone to your place. Dutch ovens, though, can be used in a fireplace or over a wood or propane stove.

I suggest some popcorn to store because it is the best for making corn meal as well as popping for an occasional treat. Corn will complement beans for a complete protein, and so will just about any kind of grain with beans. It, as well as your grains and beans, can also be planted and most can be sprouted. Sprouts can give you vitamins in the winter time.
Good ideas there, I need to try fry bread and tortillas.
Old 03-06-2011, 11:21 PM
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I thought some might find this helpfull. One thing I think might be important is to try and store what you eat. This site has a lot of good information to start preparing on a limited budget.

www.justpeace.org/budget.htm

This was a very good thread and I learned quite a few things.

Norma
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:31 PM
lanahi lanahi is offline
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Store what you eat is still the best advice.

However, also worthy of consideration is increasing the variety of what you eat, to include new foods, so that when SHTF comes, you have greater choices. I don't usually eat a lot of beans, but beans are not only a valuable protein food but they can also be sprouted and planted. So, seems to me that learning different ways to fix beans now would be helpful. In the meantime, I stock up on more beans, knowing I'll find the best ways to eat them. So, I have foods stored that I usually eat, and some I don't usually eat.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Summer View Post
Burtenshaw,

There are a lot of recommendations on your list that you've attributed to the LDS that I haven't seen before such as the peanut butter or molasses. Where did you find this extended list? I'd love to see the source. I'm always trying to collect more information.

Thanks.
I should have listed my sources.
GP is for grandpappy. http://www.grandpappy.info/hfood1yr.htm
Rawles is James Wesley, Rawles. Info is from his blog http://www.survivalblog.com/newbies.html and his book "How to Survive the End Of The World As We Know It".
LDS is Latter Day Saints. While there is some info here http://www.providentliving.org/chann...1706-1,00.html, I think I got most of the recommendations from this LDS Preparedness Manual http://www.abysmal.com/LDS/Preparedn...eparedness.pdf. It may not be "OFFICIAL" LDS.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mountainmansurvival View Post
I could use a review and suggestions.

I am setting up 1 year's worth of food per person (Adult). I calculated 2000 calories per day which leads to 730,000 calories per person, per year. I went for long term storage stuff but you should know I am also canning and growing in my BRAND NEW GARDEN! (Yes I am very excited that my garden will very soon be expanded to almost 2 acres)

So, for very basic survival what do you all think of this?
Total calorie needs/person: 730,000 calories per person

White rice: 300 pounds per person (450,000 calories) -$0.3518 per pound ($105.54)

1 cup uncooked rice : 600 calories
2.5 cups per pound : 1500 calories per pound

Pinto Beans: 150 pounds per person: (210,000 calories) - $0.4198 per pound ($62.97)

1 cup uncooked pinto beans : 700 calories
2 cups dry beans per pound : 1400 calories

Black Beans: 25 pounds per person: (34.000) -$0.7952 per pound ($19.88)

1 cup uncooked black beans: 680 calories
2 cups dry beans per pound : 1360 calories

Honey: 5 pounds honey: (6750 calories) - $56.40 per pound ($282.00)

1 cup honey : 1000 calories
1 1/3 cups per pound: 1350 calories

Wheat: 100 pounds per person: (140,000 calories) - $1.00 per pound (wheatsales.com) ($100)

1 pound wheat: 1400 calories

Salt: 10 pounds per person - $0.1552 per pound ($1.55)

Sugar: 25 pounds per person - $0. 5796 per pound ($14.43)



Total Estimated food costs per person: $586.37
I just came across this thread. I'm surprised that in 2 and a half years no one spotted the math mistake.

The 25 pounds of sugar was not added into the calorie totals.

25 pounds of sugar has 43,875 calories. Not any nutriants, but will still burn.

This brings the grand total to 884,625 calories for the year (or 2,423 calories per day).
Old 11-12-2013, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prepaholic View Post
I just came across this thread. I'm surprised that in 2 and a half years no one spotted the math mistake.

The 25 pounds of sugar was not added into the calorie totals.

25 pounds of sugar has 43,875 calories. Not any nutriants, but will still burn.

This brings the grand total to 884,625 calories for the year (or 2,423 calories per day).
That's probably because many of us recommend totalling food calories only, minus sugar and sweet drink mixes, etc.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prepaholic View Post
I just came across this thread. I'm surprised that in 2 and a half years no one spotted the math mistake.

The 25 pounds of sugar was not added into the calorie totals.

25 pounds of sugar has 43,875 calories. Not any nutriants, but will still burn.

This brings the grand total to 884,625 calories for the year (or 2,423 calories per day).
Kudos to you for searching around.

And as Mike says, they're empty calories, but as you say, they do burn. I have 50# of sugar stored, but more for sweetening and cooking and such, not as calories per se.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:18 PM
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I agree with a lot of what has been already posted:

Spices, stuff to add variety, other grains being subbed in, increase to 3000 cals, etc.

I also agree with stuff like adding some stuff like Peanut Butter and the like.


I would like to suggest things like Quinoa as a grain substitute. It is multipurpose and cooks basically like rice.

I would also suggest at least a limited amount of Instant Rice. Some times, the ease and speed of cooking will be a serious advantage, and it can also be cooked directly in the pan with most canned goods and sauces.


I really would stress the variety angle though. There is a reason they used to serve bland, repetitive, basic meals in prison...it may sound good to go "Hey, when you're hungry you'll eat it" but when you are stressed and such from both the event and the day to day living with the effects of it, good food can make all the difference.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:56 PM
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First, let me say that I totally agree that variety is best for long-term eating.

That said, a large portion of the globe's population gets 70-80% (or more) of its calories from one staple food only right now. Corn and rice are the big food staples of the world.

Gardens are great, but many 'casual' preppers probably aren't aware that there aren't that many calories in typical garden fare produce. Two common food exceptions to this would be potatoes and corn.

Personally, I'm planning on us getting around 75% of our calories from primarily rice with some pasta and oats on the side, with the rest mostly coming from canned foods (i.e. baked beans, green beans, various fruits, etc.). Will this give us a 'He-Man' diet that a health food junky would envy? Would I recommend this diet to normal people on a regular basis who can afford better? No, but it will definitely keep us alive and reasonably healthy. Truth be told, more than 50% of the world's population would probably be better off if they ate this all the time.
Old 11-13-2013, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainmansurvival View Post
I could use a review and suggestions.

I am setting up 1 year's worth of food per person (Adult). I calculated 2000 calories per day which leads to 730,000 calories per person, per year. I went for long term storage stuff but you should know I am also canning and growing in my BRAND NEW GARDEN! (Yes I am very excited that my garden will very soon be expanded to almost 2 acres)

So, for very basic survival what do you all think of this?








Total calorie needs/person: 730,000 calories per person



White rice: 300 pounds per person (450,000 calories) -$0.3518 per pound ($105.54)

1 cup uncooked rice : 600 calories
2.5 cups per pound : 1500 calories per pound

Pinto Beans: 150 pounds per person: (210,000 calories) - $0.4198 per pound ($62.97)

1 cup uncooked pinto beans : 700 calories
2 cups dry beans per pound : 1400 calories

Black Beans: 25 pounds per person: (34.000) -$0.7952 per pound ($19.88)

1 cup uncooked black beans: 680 calories
2 cups dry beans per pound : 1360 calories

Honey: 5 pounds honey: (6750 calories) - $56.40 per pound ($282.00)

1 cup honey : 1000 calories
1 1/3 cups per pound: 1350 calories

Wheat: 100 pounds per person: (140,000 calories) - $1.00 per pound (wheatsales.com) ($100)

1 pound wheat: 1400 calories

Salt: 10 pounds per person - $0.1552 per pound ($1.55)

Sugar: 25 pounds per person - $0. 5796 per pound ($14.43)



Total Estimated food costs per person: $586.37
So far looks good except potable water. You should factor that in as well most beans need water to be cooked.
Spices for flavoring. Most beans are bland you will tire of it quickly.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:56 PM
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This was a great thread, thanks for all the information!
Old 11-18-2013, 06:45 AM
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My thinking is that for the bulk required of foods:
Corn
Rice
Wheat
Beans
Pasta
Barley
Then add in canned goods to flesh things out:
Salmon
Tuna
Beef Stew
Luncheon Meat
Pasta
Chili
Then for a little comfort, canned:
Peaches
Pears
Pineapple
Mandarin Oranges
Throw in some spices:
Italian Seasoning
Garlic Powder
Onion Powder
Chili Powder
Salt
Add in some sugar, Baking Soda, Cream of Tartar, Grain Mill
You should be good to go if you have a garden and a few chickens. And I bet you'd be able to acquire all this for little money on a weekly basis.
Old 11-18-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mountainmansurvival View Post
So what would you substitute for rice?
Vary white rice with long grain, brown ect.
Old 11-18-2013, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by steve marshall View Post
My thinking is that... you should be good to go if you have a garden and a few chickens. and chocolate And I bet you'd be able to acquire all this for little money on a weekly basis.
Added a bit right there...never forget the chocolate.
Old 11-18-2013, 08:06 AM
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Long-term storage goal here, is 2 years - as a just in case backup, in case of crop failure. I'm starting a brand new garden (for the 3rd or 4th time) and know from experience that each environment takes some getting used to, some experience (including failure), to begin to produce enough to put back enough to get through our short winters - and iffy spring weather.

I'm getting there, but still have a ways to go. I'm going to second both the "store what you eat" and also variety ideas. Face it, when we cook we make about 20 different recipes on a regular basis -- even with grocery stores full of out of season produce. Then, there are the items that we cook once in a while that we really like... (lamb falls into that category for us). If I was really good, I'd premix some meatloaf and freeze it - so it could be thawed and popped into an oven or put on the grill, in a dutch oven.

One thing I've started to do, is seal up some basic recipes with those preps. So if someone else is here, or if our brains are stressed or tired, I have those recipes handy for ideas of what to make, with what's on hand. (No searching cookbooks or realizing - oops - I don't have that one item and no substitutes, either.) We tend not to think about "what's for dinner", until we're already hungry, as it is!

Because buying prepared grain products is going to be one the big things we'll miss, I'm going to be adding plenty of flours (that get rotated) and grains to grind or cook. (The prices are already starting to get rediculous for baked goods!) Dairy is the other one. In our situation, the freeze-dried or dehydrated products would best for LTStorage, as they're lighter and take up less space for more servings. But I hit the canned fruits and veggie sales, pretty hard too -- always check the BB dates and buy the ones dated further in the future. Lately, I've noticed the companies are starting to stretch those dates out a bit - currently buying 2015/2016 cans now. Guess they realized that they might sell more, if people think they can keep them in storage a little longer without any degradation in quality. Numerous threads here, have documented how the dates are more of a "guideline", than it will magically "go bad" on that date. With home canned items, I know we often ate 2 yr old stock, with no ill effects.

Thanks for the reminder on flat breads!! There are options for making various kinds of breads, without an oven - spoon bread, tortillas/naan, cornbread, etc.
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