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New generation of indentured servants

16K views 104 replies 42 participants last post by  Stacy 
#1 ·
There are over 35 million students now indentured servants to Citibank. They owe typically over 20k. Most are leaving the universities with no job in sight and a huge student loan to pay off. In 2005, our elected officials working for Citi-bank, federally insured all Citi-bank's student loans. Now the loans follow the student for life until they pay them off. Recently, our elected officials were toying with the ideal of giving Citi-bank a raise by doubling the interest rates on student loans. Let all take a moment to thank our elected officials :cool:
 
#2 ·
There are over 35 million students now indentured servants to Citibank. They owe typically over 20k. Most are leaving the universities with no job in sight and a huge student loan to pay off. In 2005, our elected officials working for Citi-bank federally insured all Citi-bank's student loans. Now the loans follow the student for life until they pay them off. Recently, our elected officials were toying with the ideal of giving Citi-bank a raise by doubling the interest rates on student loans. Let all take a moment to thank our elected officials :cool:
It is soo good to see our elected officials looking out for those who elected them.:rolleyes:

If Citibank gets the interest rate doubled they can spend more on campaign finance to convince students to vote for Citibank's in pocket politicians.
 
#4 ·
No one forced them to take out those loans. You can work and pay your way through college. I am living proof of that. Of course it's not the easy way and you can't go out and party all night like the C average students.
 
#33 ·
How long ago? Can you provide some numbers? What was your tuition, room & board, and income? How did you balance work with study? I worked my way through, but that was 15-20 years ago and today is a totally different ballgame. If you think the numbers haven't changed, you're wrong. In many fields, computer science, engineering, medicine, law, etc. you really shouldn't be working much while you're studying.

It certainly is indentured servitude, maybe worse. The indentured servant probably learned his trade -- blacksmithing, shoe repair, etc. as an apprentice and may have actually earned a little money on the side while he learned the ropes. Then he sold his soul to obtain passage to the US, eventually to buy his freedom back.

Now people have to mortgage their own future out-of-pocket -- rather than being paid a modest stipend by their employer. And not to get passage to the New World, but simply to obtain a better-than-minimum wage job in a complex society that demands specialised skills. And it's difficult to compete with communist labour, and nations with free education. As employees, we have more expenditures that we must pass onto our employers. They don't pay enough, which translates to enormous student debt. Or they simply move the job to China or India, where their government kicks in much more.

I believe it all comes down to complex economic/thermodynamic fluctuations in which there is currently a labour surplus that has increased quite a bit of (downward) competition on the value of labour relative to the upward competition of industries (better paying jobs) to obtain skilled people. There are fewer high-paying employers relative to the global labour pool, so they can demand that their employees go into gross debt or pay them barely enough to scrape by with mortgage and college loans.

Definitely a trap -- avoid at all costs....
 
#10 ·
And then there is that little issue of them not being able to find jobs after they acquire their degree and debt. I have a hard time believing we have an entire generation or mostly worthless, educated lazy people that simply aren't trying hard enough. But then I'm not a millenial; perhaps one of them has an opinion to share as to whether they were morons for borrowing or if it was the economy failing to deliver the jobs and the future that were promised.

Caveat emptor sounds so dismissive when there have been massive systemic changes in the last decade. They bought the idea that was sold to them over the course of their entire life. They have a good reason to be very p*ssed off. Like I said, I'm not from the millenial generation, just an outsider making some observations. I expect to be observing a period of payback long before I retire.
 
#12 ·
Well, the jobs not being there when they graduate is Citibank's fault, how? Still comes down to personal responsibility whether there are jobs to be had or not. The students went in knowing when they signed the loan docs that they will owe the money come he'll or high water. It's not a freakin' home mortgage where yo can just walk away and everything will be "cool" in 7 years.
 
#17 ·
The "blame" doesn't start until the whining reaches a crescendo. NO WHERE that I ever saw was there a rock solid carved in granite guarantee that a college degree automatically placed you in the career of your choice at a pay level you desired. In the best of times, let alone now.

Sometimes in life you take a chance ... sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

They "bet" that a college education was the ticket to success. Well, some of them lost. Not all. That's life. You take your licks, brush yourself off, hitch up your big kid pants and move in a different direction. The education wasn't wasted ... the degree doesn't "expire". They GOT what they paid for .... I'm sorry, BORROWED to pay for. Now it's time to repay the loan. If it takes longer or takes working two or three jobs instead of the "promised" one, so be it.

This business of "that's what they were TOLD so it's not their FAULT" is laughable. There's a sucker born every minute ... PT Barnum made a fortune off of them. They shouldn't have believed everything they heard ... and their parents should have reinforced that.

They can chalk it up to a lesson well learned early in life.
 
#15 ·
Let's look at this from a business aspect. If you are making $25K a year, you probably can't afford to work through school. Montana state is $20K a year now.
You have to decide should I take the loans out and get done in four years or work and maybe take 8-10 years to get through. You lose years of being able to market your degree taking longer. Hopefully you get a degree that pays enough money to be worth it.
If you are spending $80k on an education to make an extra $10K a year its probably not that good an investment.
Not to mention degrees that won't pay the bills in a good economy. Most of the liberal arts degrees give you nothing more than being able to say I graduated. You don't have any particularly marketable skill to sell. Sadly those are the guys that end up working in government. It might be part of why our government is going broke.
 
#18 ·
EXACTLY.

I figured that out back in the late 70s (the so-called pined away for "good old days") My parents didn't have a dime and I wasn't going to starve or work three jobs to put myself through school and went to work instead.

And god forbid anyone come out of school and get a job where the employer PAYS your tuition to get a degree. Half of employers in the US offer tuition reimbursement.

I know, I know, it's toooooooooo haaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddd to work and go to school at night or on weekends or online, whatever. Two of my coworkers seemed to manage to do it ... with families and all that entails, too.
One is working on her master's now ... all on the company dime.
 
#16 ·
So if the indebted can't pay it back then we will say they refuse to pay it back. Then they will be jailed and if that doesn't work we'll force them to work. If that doesn't work we'll provide "incentives" such as physical pain, (read torture).

Morally we'll all be in the clear, because they volunteered for it.
 
#20 ·
People should pay their debts if they can.

There are a few things I don't like about this situation though. First, non-discharge debt is wrong. Second, for the most part this debt is not the wealth of someone else being loaned out. This is a free ride for whatever institution our government decides. I'm not a fan of fractional reserve bs. Viewed in this light, I feel the non-discharge aspect even more wrong. Third, I attribute the huge increase in tuition rates to the availability of all this bs currency, (or debt if you will). This becomes a huge forward feedback loop for the system.

Also, people should pay their debts if they can. (in case a reader "forgets" the first thing I wrote).
 
#22 ·
Oh god! The humanity! They have to pay back money they borrowed? What a sick world! If only everyone had the same fiscal responsibility of our government!

This isn't a generation of indentured servants. It's a generation of people with no personal responsibility. Just because you can't find a job doesn't mean you magically don't owe money you promised to pay back. Your mentality is the same mentality being used to destroy the American way of life.
 
#25 ·
Lending is a two way street. When banks lend unsecured money, it either comes with a high interest rate or in small amounts, and then only to those with good a credit history. When it comes to student loans, they care nothing about the ability to repay, nor do they care what it's being spent on, so they open the floodgates and saturate the market. It's a government guaranteed stream of revenue, and it's driving the price of college to adsurd levels which in turn hurts ALL students. The "responsibility" crowd needs to realize that the student AND the lender are at fault here, and it's all being enabled by the absurd policies of the crony capitalists in DC. This crap would stop overnight if student loans were treated like credit card (or any other unsecured) debt.
 
#23 ·
Honestly if youre stupid sometimes you have to pay the price.

My Daughter will be getting her first degree of 4 in about 3 weeks, Her AA. She has actually been paid to get the degree and here is how we did it: When she was in highschool I busted her chopps about getting good grades and she did. During her senior year I stayed on her ass to apply to everything she could because a lot of grants and scholarships go unclaimed because no one takes the time to fill out the paperwork. The first thing she landed was a 5000/year grant. The second thing she got and accepted was a full ride to the near by community college. The next one was a book scholarship. She got accepted into many 4 year colleges but I sat her down and explained to her the costs versus the reward. She decided that staying home while going to the comunity college free was the best option since even if she dropped out after 2 years she would still have a minor degree.

The last 2 years the scholarships paid for tuition and books and the grant was paid directly to her for expenses. So, shes been paid 5k a year to do college so far and with her grades it looks like the next stage will be paid for through the next scholarship.

BUT thats not all. I forced her to get a job while going to college. She found a clerk possision at the courthouse, low wages and part time but a foot in the door. She worked that into a full time posstition with fair pay for a 19 year old and full benes. She took the time to get to know all of the lawyers and judges and excelled. In doing that she got herself noticed and landed the next step, Now she is a researcher for a lawyer in town and he is doing her internship.... before even getting into the 4 year college. Since she works her ass off hes also helping her with scholarships and grants for the 4 year college. Dont worry hes getting his money's worth too. And he wants her to partner after finishing the bar.

She is pretty much set. The next 2 years should be taken care of at no debt at all. As she works toward her J.D. I told her that it may be nessaccary to get a small loan but nothing that couldnt be handled.

Hard work and good decisions can get you a degree. but if youre a slacker just looking for a party, dont whine to me when you get stuck with the bill.
 
#105 ·
That is a good plan. My daughter is working her butt off in an IB program and has a very high GPA. She is aiming for the Ivy League partly because she wants to go into Theoretical Astro Physics and partly because private schools have lots of private money. If your family makes less then 65K you can go to Princeton (including room and board) for Free. There is a sliding scale for family income above 65K. If your family makes under 100K you can go to Dartmouth Free. Of course these schools are very hard to get in to.
 
#27 ·
Indentured

Both Banks AND COLLEGES, should just rob the youth with a gun. At least they would know they have been robbed and the crime would be over quickly. They could then learn from it and take Bankruptcy (or what-ever) and move on with their lives. As it is, the Government supplies the Criminals with protection and laws to guarantee their "vigg" essentially FOREVER.

And "yes" teenager/young adult is responsible for their actions. However, that does not excuse CRIMINALS lying in wait to ambush them. Or CON MEN selling them a box of Chocolate that really contains dog sh** (see Market Ticker ie Den***** for examples of this). The stance that the youth are responsible for their actions "in total" is like saying a 13 year old girl being lied to, manipulated, and seduced - is responsible. The point being the SEASONED PREDATOR knew better, the victim didn't. The CRIMINAL used lies, sweet talk, hopes dreams, and fairy tales to seduce her. Just my opinion but it's based on real life, with real children. All are college Graduates.
 
#28 ·
I agree colleges can be like army recruiters and lie and mislead people to get a degree. But still at the end of the day the students need to be responsible for their mistakes even if they were misled. Just try to educate people to make smarter decisions.

I know some people pay a lot for a degree and then can't find a job right away but most of them will land a job at some point. I mean people who graduated during the recession often couldn't find a job. But even if it takes a couple years to land a good job it's still better than working for minimal wage or something. People just need to help each other on hard times and plan for things like that.
 
#31 ·
But still at the end of the day the students need to be responsible for their mistakes even if they were misled.
I agree. The penalties for defaulting on a loan should be severe for both the lender and the lendee. The bank loses their principle, the lendee loses the ability to get credit for a long period of time. This is how it should be, but somehow the banks convinced the government to transfer ALL the risk to the lendee.
 
#32 ·
spameggsbaconandspam;4038295]Taking over? I'd say it was taken over decades ago with the boomers. That's what I find to be so interesting. We have the most entitled generation, boomers, telling the millennials that they are entitled brats and need to grow up and deal with the country that was drained by the boomers. That statement is not directed at anyone in this thread but that does seem to be the public dialog between the generations. It should be pretty interesting to see how this conversation changes when the boomers are in their 70s and 80s and the millennials are in their 40s and 50s.
Congratulations on being fully indoctrinated by the purveyors of generational and class warfare. You'll make a fine zombie for the left.

Decades ago there were no "guaranteed student loans", now were there?

Decades ago adult "children" couldn't languish about on their parents' healthcare (paid for by their parents' employers) until age 26.

Eh, what's the use. I suppose if you guys whine enough someone will come by, pick you up, dust you off, kiss it and make it all better. Just like mommy used to (or probably still does)

I have a great idea .... let's END all guaranteed student loans period. Then there will be nothing to "pay back" and no evil bogeyman there to rape the unsuspecting.

Nothing is EVER good enough for this bunch. NOTHING.
 
#35 ·
Congratulations on being fully indoctrinated by the purveyors of generational and class warfare. You'll make a fine zombie for the left.
You crack me up if that statement is directed at me. Go read up on the The Fourth Turning by Strauss & Howe and keep telling yourself nothing changes between generations.

Zombie for the left, eh? Try again. No really, keep up with the generalizations and ad hominems.

PS. I've been a working professional since the 90s and I'm not "whining" about no job, no health care and no future. It's not me I'm worried about but I guess you can't see that.
 
#42 ·
what notarolemodel said and THIS: what is lacking seems to me to be a sense of personal responsibility, reliability, honesty, dependability and character in todays
new generation of employees. Most of the people where i work are in their mid 20's or earlier. certain individuals shine among the 200 or so i have contact with. the others are all more concerned with texting and watching youtube, talking about the most recent movies and planning their next parties than they are with doing their jobs. initiative and industry are singularly lacking in most indivduals. all would rather not leave the staff office and the comfy chairs to go out into the unit and work with the residents. there are problems with theft/theft of services, multiple call in's at the last moment, leaving their co workers hanging while the office tries to find somebody to take over that shift, nobody being prompt to start their shifts on time, multiple problems with misbehavior (sex in the bathrooms when they should be caring for the residents, and etc). most of them are in their early to mid 20's; they are no more mature than the adolescents they are caring for. pretty much makes me sick to see the lack of quality in most of these young folks and most are college graduates getting paid very well. Even the part timers are well above minimum wage and have great benefits. it is disturbing to look at this bunch and realize that this is a small picture of our future.
 
#45 ·
Notarolemodel's postings are basically big apologetic treatises for the most corrupt, non-patriotic and short-sighted EMPLOYERS to have ever existed in this country. They sold us out to China/Inda, hire illegals and work visa people here, and demand bailouts, wars, subsidies, etc. Take a drive from Duluth, MN to Buffalo, NY. The rust belt is what we've got, one big and expanding ghost town of post-industrial decay.

When you have slimey corporations that strike deals with the communist elite government in China, what sort of personal responsibility can really answer to that? You've got many American corporations that had been here for over a century, now gone for good.

If kids are lazy, they are taking the only rational response. The only other appropriate response is probably to change their citizenship -- as these corporations basically have done -- and pack their bags to India or China, where 21st century jobs are.
 
#43 ·
The entire debt based system is a scam, and right now no one, I mean no one should be taking on more then a few $1000 in debt to get a degree. The educational system is a magnet for bad money(freshly printed dollars from the Fed), and is hugely subsidized by the government to help give a bunch of people a shot at a degree that will never get them.

Basic economics and modern history(think within last 10 years) tell us that people investing money in a commodity(education) in that type of economic environment run an extremely high risk of getting burned big time. This is one of the main reasons I stopped at a two year degree, and I'd also like to add I still don't make as much as I was told I would with that degree and that was 8 years ago. I'm just glad that between money I had saved and part time work I could cover the costs without going into debt. I'm still hopeful that by the time my life is over I can look back and say "yea it was worth getting that degree", but if today was my last day on Earth it shames me to say I'd be feeling really screwed.

If anyone here is thinking about funding their education with mostly student loans I'd encourage them to think long and hard before getting into that mess. Right now there's moral hazard in the system were many private lenders make more money off people having trouble paying back the loan vs one of the few people that actually graduate and make what they were told they would make. Now throw in the other things I mentioned before going against you and you can see you're setting yourself up for a hell of a time in hell. I also forgot to point out how thanks to the sway of multinational corps our government loves helping people from 3rd world countries come here for the same education you're probably trying to get so that they can go back home later and do your job for half the price.
 
#48 ·
A closely related subject not discussed here as yet is the exorbitant increase in the cost of a college education. When I registered, all I had to do was give them a couple of daddy's checks and I was done.

Very few people have the ability to do that "these days" because of the ridiculous costs and, secondly, because so few people actually save money to buy the important things, like an education, as opposed to charging up the latest cool crap.

Then there's the apparent inability of parents to teach the kids the value of money, what it takes to earn it, and how to use it without abusing it. Most kids can't even crunch the numbers to see how long it will take for them to pay back their loans.
 
#56 ·
I think part of the reason kids do not understand money is they are not taught anything about money anyore. You wouldn't believe the number of people that can not count back change without the register telling them how much to give back. Or the people that c not balance a check book.
 
#52 ·
No one said the borrowers want a free ride. The situation is that the vast majority of students that are coming out of the university are unable to find a job in their field. They end up at Target, Walmart, Walgreens or Sears getting paid minimal wage. Tell me how one pays the rent, gas, light, gasoline, food bill and the huge student loan when all you get is barely enough to pay the rent (especially if you live in the big city) ;-0 The unlucky ones (those living in rural areas) can't find a job anywhere. IF you are unable to pay the full amount of your student loan each month, then the unpaid portion is added to the principal. You can literally find yourself paying year after year and owing more than you originally owed. Don't worry the lender is willing to consolidate your loan and extend the amount of time you have to pay them. Sounds great but at a huge cost to the borrower. Remember these banks don't lose one penny they are insured by the US taxpayer.


Prior to 1997: Every subject in England was entitled to a free public university education. How things have changed!
Student riots in England: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/blog/2011/nov/09/student-tuition-fees-protests-live-blog
 
#61 ·
You are missing the POINT.

You sign for the loan, you took a RISK. Sometimes RISK goes against you. Sometimes you LOSE the bet. You then PAY.

You got the education, the degree, the diploma, the knowledge (hopefully).

That CAN'T be taken away.

So WHY shouldn't you pay? If all you can find is a Walmart job, work there during the day and at Dunkin Donuts at night. Wash dishes, park cars, deliver pizzas, who knows? Figure it OUT.

Do you folks REALLY THINK this is the first generation that had to bust its hineys to earn a living in tough times?

EVERYONE I knew and I mean EVERYONE when I came out of high school in the 70s worked a couple of jobs. Their wives too. 18% prime rates will do that for you, 15% mortgages with 3 points and MINIMUM 20% down to buy a house will do that for you.

Figure it OUT.

Stop blaming the mythical bogeyman because YOU made a poor choice. Unfortunate or ill timed choice would be a more fair descriptor here .

EVERYONE makes poor choices in life. Some cost more than others.

EVERYONE has a made a financial decision at one time or another they sorely wish they could undo. I know I damn sure have .... more than once.

Usually the poor financial decision ends up with you holding NOTHING. These students have and forever will have their education.

Next you'll be suggesting that parents with kids should stop paying child support because "times got a little rough". Same thing. You made the kid, you pay for him/her. Kid's here ... can't be sent back. You got the education, can't be removed from your head.

Where do you want to start drawing the line?
 
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