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91 dodge dakota tooltime Vehicles & Transportation 22 12-30-2016 04:40 AM

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Old 01-24-2017, 10:40 AM
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I have a picture somewhere of my 07 2wd half ton chevy pulling my pop's 2014 f350 diesel dually hooked onto a 32ft trailer. Talk about a long load... 2wd will do almost anything you need if you know how to drive it and have good tires. Only reason we have a 4wd is because cattle still need fed no matter the weather
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:00 PM
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The last numbers I saw displayed Ford at 42% of the market share for construction. And I've been exposed to the construction industry since I could walk, and have worked in it my entire career. I know a thing or two about what goes on.

Aluminum bodies, for fuel economy standards forced upon them by the EPA. Your precious Chevrolet is going to aluminum in the next Silverado (2018 I think?) but they don't want you to know that yet. As for tires, most customers replace them with their preference anyway, so it doesn't make any economical sense for Ford to spend a ton of money on tires from the factory. Most customers would rather save the money on the purchase of the truck because they have tires they like that they want on their trucks.

Also, very clever, quoting Amiri King, whoever he is, making sex jokes about Ford? Very good way to illustrate that you don't have an argument of substance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalFarmer View Post
Ford doesn't own 50% of the construction market. They own 50% of the new trucks that construction companies buy.. Go to a few actual work sites and take note of the oldest trucks there. Not the new shiny ones that they just bought. Pay attention to what has been surviving there. I used to do marine construction for a small business. They used to have 5 trucks. During the recession they couldn't afford to replace any trucks that broke too badly. They had one ford lose a transmission and the other one cracked a piston. The 3 chevys that they had kept going with nothing but tires and oil changes. The chevys were mid-90s half tons and one 3/4 ton. These things hauled big payloads and barges that make you weak in the knees with cranes mounted on them that could pick your ford up and set it on their deck.

Also, I worked at a different company that used ford trucks specifically because they got a fleet deal on them from ford. Ford makes cheap fleet trucks that look good on paper for the bean counters who are worried about making a profit on this very business quarter rather than long term investments in the company.

I will say that ford's pushrod V8 trucks were good. That was back when ford was indeed tough. They dropped that torch with their 4.6 and 5.4 modular engines. Their diesels seem to be good too.

But if ford is building their trucks for "people who work their trucks", then explain the V6 aluminum-frame trucks that come with street-only summer tires on them XD
Old 01-24-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Backwoods Alaskan View Post
The last numbers I saw displayed Ford at 42% of the market share for construction. And I've been exposed to the construction industry since I could walk, and have worked in it my entire career. I know a thing or two about what goes on.

Aluminum bodies, for fuel economy standards forced upon them by the EPA. Your precious Chevrolet is going to aluminum in the next Silverado (2018 I think?) but they don't want you to know that yet. As for tires, most customers replace them with their preference anyway, so it doesn't make any economical sense for Ford to spend a ton of money on tires from the factory. Most customers would rather save the money on the purchase of the truck because they have tires they like that they want on their trucks.

Also, very clever, quoting Amiri King, whoever he is, making sex jokes about Ford? Very good way to illustrate that you don't have an argument of substance.
Funny thing is that the all-steel chevy V8 truck still weighs less than Fords ecoboost V6 AND it has an 8 speed transmission AND it has more power.

Aluminum frames on trucks is a bad idea. Body panels are bad enough. The fatigue life of aluminum is shorter and it has less elasticity. Aside from that, lets focus on the objectively measurable things:
Chevy trucks have more horsepower and torque across the board. The engines use fewer moving parts.

Almost any backup generator that uses a modern V8 Gasoline engine is using a version of Chevy's LS based engines. Boats that use engines based off of modern automotive engines are using Chevy's engine. Guys that build drag cars are using Chevy truck engines. Guys are even swapping Chevy LS based V8s into airplanes now. Basically, all the guys who have high stakes are using the chevy V8.

Ford has a few good diesel models, but I know a lot of guys that have serious issues with Ford's electrical systems and transmissions on some models.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:43 PM
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I think these aluminum, v6 trucks is an attempt to essentially create an "energy star" truck.

There is a reason trucks are made of steel and have a v8 or diesel. Anything else is not intended for work or towing, yet those who don't know better will try to tow their ski boat or camper all over the place and wonder why the transmission went to ****.
Old 01-24-2017, 01:03 PM
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Ford doesn't use aluminum frames. Body panels and bed only.

Ford uses a ten speed transmission in their F-150s.

The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 checks in at 375hp, 470tq. The 5.3L Chevy Vortec V8 checks in at 355hp, and 383 tq.

Don't spread lies.

And if you want to look at the diesel specs, the Powerstroke also outperforms the Duramax. Powerstroke is 440hp/925tq, Duramax is 445hp/910 tq.

So Chevy got 5hp more on their diesel option. That's hardly "more power across the board".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalFarmer View Post
Funny thing is that the all-steel chevy V8 truck still weighs less than Fords ecoboost V6 AND it has an 8 speed transmission AND it has more power.

Aluminum frames on trucks is a bad idea. Body panels are bad enough. The fatigue life of aluminum is shorter and it has less elasticity. Aside from that, lets focus on the objectively measurable things:
Chevy trucks have more horsepower and torque across the board. The engines use fewer moving parts.

Almost any backup generator that uses a modern V8 Gasoline engine is using a version of Chevy's LS based engines. Boats that use engines based off of modern automotive engines are using Chevy's engine. Guys that build drag cars are using Chevy truck engines. Guys are even swapping Chevy LS based V8s into airplanes now. Basically, all the guys who have high stakes are using the chevy V8.

Ford has a few good diesel models, but I know a lot of guys that have serious issues with Ford's electrical systems and transmissions on some models.
Old 01-24-2017, 01:23 PM
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Even though I like my GM truck, there are a huge number of Ford Diesel's in the Eagleford shale area of Texas, so I guess they are not too bad.

It seems like the preferred maker that is owned by the bosses is Dodge though, and I have seen them towing some impressive loads. Also they have some sort of economy diesel engine that one guy was claiming crazy high mileage figures for. Don't recall exactly, 35 mpg or better?

I am happy with my boring GMC though. It just doesn't break.
Old 01-24-2017, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoods Alaskan View Post
Ford doesn't use aluminum frames. Body panels and bed only.

Ford uses a ten speed transmission in their F-150s.

The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 checks in at 375hp, 470tq. The 5.3L Chevy Vortec V8 checks in at 355hp, and 383 tq.

Don't spread lies.

And if you want to look at the diesel specs, the Powerstroke also outperforms the Duramax. Powerstroke is 440hp/925tq, Duramax is 445hp/910 tq.

So Chevy got 5hp more on their diesel option. That's hardly "more power across the board".
Do you think those ecoboost engines are reliable for work/towing?

I could get that power out of a 4 cylinder Honda, but I'm sure it would crap all over itself if someone tried to tow with it.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but spreading HP and torque over 8 cylinders rather than 6 seems more logical in a truck application.

Hell, I dunno...just thinking out loud so to speak.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoods Alaskan View Post
Ford doesn't use aluminum frames. Body panels and bed only.

Ford uses a ten speed transmission in their F-150s.

The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 checks in at 375hp, 470tq. The 5.3L Chevy Vortec V8 checks in at 355hp, and 383 tq.

Don't spread lies.

And if you want to look at the diesel specs, the Powerstroke also outperforms the Duramax. Powerstroke is 440hp/925tq, Duramax is 445hp/910 tq.

So Chevy got 5hp more on their diesel option. That's hardly "more power across the board".
According to this http://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/ford...boost-v6-news/ the Ford v6 is having to use not just one but 2 turbo chargers to get those numbers where as the Chevy is normally aspired. Just something else to break.
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by drobs View Post
I use 4wd to visit my nearest neighbors who live on the hill behind my place. Our un-maintained road is rocky rutted gravel.

One neighbor on the hill moved from California with a 2wd truck. He quickly bought a 4wd truck as he had troubles getting up the hill in the summer much less the winter. The other neighbor's wife parks here car at the base of the hill and will let her husband pick her up in his 4wd truck as there's no way her front wheel drive car will make it up the hill.

Sure, I guess I could just tear up tires, much easier to flip the switch.

Here's a picture of our road that doesn't really do the hill justice.

My drive home looks like 2 miles of that, except steeper and with....
I don't know how many switchbacks.

Cars sometimes can make it up.... in perfect weather.
2 WD trucks can make it up in MOST weather


But there's more than a few days a year if it wasn't for 4x4 I'd have a 5 mile round trip hike home.

Other than this there's only been a couple times in the last 7 years I've NEEDED 4X4.

But 2 of them very well could of turned into a "survival situation" without it.

Yes a good 2WD is ALMOST as good if you know what your doing.

But some of us don't live on blacktop and like to be prepared (as much as possible) for ALL situations.
I didn't have a 4x4 when I was broke, but now.... I don't see a point in my life when I'll be without one.


I should note, my 2500 is a suburban.
With 4x4 and a tow package it's "worth" far less than a 2WD truck.
The rear seats live in my shop, the center folds down and I can fit a stack of plywood in the back.

If I need more capacity I can hook up my box or flatbed trailers. Both were cheaper than the difference between the sub and a ****ty truck. (Granted I stole the box trailer)
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoods Alaskan View Post
Ford doesn't use aluminum frames. Body panels and bed only.

Ford uses a ten speed transmission in their F-150s.

The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 checks in at 375hp, 470tq. The 5.3L Chevy Vortec V8 checks in at 355hp, and 383 tq.

Don't spread lies.

And if you want to look at the diesel specs, the Powerstroke also outperforms the Duramax. Powerstroke is 440hp/925tq, Duramax is 445hp/910 tq.

So Chevy got 5hp more on their diesel option. That's hardly "more power across the board".
Chevy has half tons making 420hp and 460 lb-ft naturally aspirated. Ford's closest match makes 385hp and 387 lb-ft. Do a quick search for "Ecoboost 3.5 Blown up". Do the same search for "Chevy 6.2 Blown up". The 3.5 is overworked and will generally not have similar lifespan to what the Chevy V8s have been getting
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalFarmer View Post
Chevy has half tons making 420hp and 460 lb-ft naturally aspirated. Ford's closest match makes 385hp and 387 lb-ft. Do a quick search for "Ecoboost 3.5 Blown up". Do the same search for "Chevy 6.2 Blown up". The 3.5 is overworked and will generally not have similar lifespan to what the Chevy V8s have been getting
The LS engines are unmatched as far as reliability and cost of maintenance and repairs. I know of many LS engines that have over 250,000 miles on them and still run as smooth as new.
I gave up on ford after the second head I had to replace from the $20 spark plug not coming out.
Held in by three threads?
Thanks ford
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
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The LS engines are unmatched as far as reliability and cost of maintenance and repairs. I know of many LS engines that have over 250,000 miles on them and still run as smooth as new.
I gave up on ford after the second head I had to replace from the $20 spark plug not coming out.
Held in by three threads?
Thanks ford
Were the threads crossed?
Old 01-24-2017, 02:47 PM
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Were the threads crossed?
Probably not. I know the issue that he is talking about. Ford's Tritons had issues.. http://www.autorepairinstructions.co...g-information/

For the most part those engines were good. Some make it a lot of miles. Some just don't. They had plastic cam-chain tensioners that would sometimes erode. The debris would clog the oil pick-up and deprive the engine of oil slowly but surely running it on less-than-ideal amounts of oil pressure. Chang your oil all you want to, but you aren't getting those clogs out unless you take the engine apart.
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
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Were the threads crossed?
No, one had original plugs, 80,000 miles. Those pos triton engines have that long spark plug, the extension tube seizes in the head.
The truck sounded like it had a knock, that was the noise made by gases being blown out past the threads.

You have to pour penetrating oil into the bore for the plug and let it sit, if not you're either buying the tool to pull the sleeve or you're pulling the head.
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:56 PM
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dislaimer.. i currently own a 2011 duramax 4x4..purchased new and I've pretty much regretted the purchase due to constant failures of pretty much EVERY sensor on the thing.

now..that said..been a chevy man most of my days (60yrs)

the duramax has some aggressive tires on it and we've needed it to pull our work trailer and our travel camper out of some slickery mud conditions in the past...there's been more creek hopping and mountain climbs than i ever expected to do in a rig that big n heavey...some place bout ripped the mirrors off as the "road" was big enough maybe for a Datsun.

anyway
before that...had a 2WD silverado 2004 model..also bought that one new..extended cab model...with decent tires on the back it did ok most days...couple times...ice storm etc...there was no way it was climbing up the 50yard dirt drive out of my property to get to paved road

go back a few more years..old Chevy10 6cyl 3 on the column short bed... loved that old truck...lots of low country sandy roads..few scares but the thing always got me home.

go back to 1971 and there was my first Ford...302..3 on the column (syncromesh never did work right on that)..long bed..snow tires n the back even though we were living in SC...tended to jump around a lot at about 75mph..but was also seeing a lot of sand/beach type fun down on the coast...without the snow tires, it would have been useless with the longer bed...but I enjoyed the truck.

oh...forgot the little Datsun...yes.. Datsun..not nissan..lil hustler 2wd 5 speed...that sucker had to go into the dirt more than once to help the bigger trucks get out of a construction site dirt bed...thing was so banged up, you couldn't tell where the next bump-up hit...but that lil truck would just not quit.
Old 01-24-2017, 03:13 PM
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They've proven themselves to be very reliable engines. With the exception of some issues early on in 2011 when they were introduced, which is to be expected, they've been largely problem free. They're also rated to tow over 10,000 pounds, and many use them to do just that.

Turbocharger technology has advanced so far, reliability has largely been a non-issue.

They also do much better in regarding fuel economy than larger NA engines, loaded or unloaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriggerHappy View Post
Do you think those ecoboost engines are reliable for work/towing?

I could get that power out of a 4 cylinder Honda, but I'm sure it would crap all over itself if someone tried to tow with it.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but spreading HP and torque over 8 cylinders rather than 6 seems more logical in a truck application.

Hell, I dunno...just thinking out loud so to speak.
Old 01-24-2017, 03:15 PM
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Yeah I don't have the highest opinion of the Isuzu/GM DMAX. I don't tow anything big enough to justify getting a diesel as a regular vehicle, but don't think I'd want the Duramax if I did go diesel. Id almost rather get an older diesel that would spend its entire life hooked up to whatever giant thing I needed to tow most often. The only turb diesel vehicle I own is an International TD-15B from 1972. Anybody want to hook chains?
Old 01-24-2017, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalFarmer View Post
Probably not. I know the issue that he is talking about. Ford's Tritons had issues.. http://www.autorepairinstructions.co...g-information/

For the most part those engines were good. Some make it a lot of miles. Some just don't. They had plastic cam-chain tensioners that would sometimes erode. The debris would clog the oil pick-up and deprive the engine of oil slowly but surely running it on less-than-ideal amounts of oil pressure. Chang your oil all you want to, but you aren't getting those clogs out unless you take the engine apart.
Yeah, those tensioners suck.
The cam chains in general in that are a terrible design.
If you have to change the rear cam chain you have to pull the engine.
Ford performed upgrades on the crown Vics sold to police departments but never extended that good will to the civilian vehicles.
Never mind the diesel screwing they gave their customers.
Last good diesel to come out of ford was the 7.3. Everyone knows the 6.0 story, but the 6.4 story is just as bad.
When that turbo goes bad around 150,000 miles or so that engine will suck all those fragments in.

Then they gave us the 5r55 trans. Anyone not familiar with that one dodged a bullet.
The servo bores are not steel sleeved, there's a steel servo piston that shuttles back and forth and wears a groove in the bore. They fail pretty regularly around the 100,000 mile mark.
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:18 PM
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The 2017 Raptor engine is putting out 470hp and 510tq. Limiting the discussion to NA engines makes no sense. You have to take the brand as a whole in to account.

The 3.5 has proven to be largely problem free since its inception six years ago. Yes, there will be a random catastrophic failure here and there, that is to be expected from every product, every manufacturer. But it is not indicative of the engine family as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalFarmer View Post
Chevy has half tons making 420hp and 460 lb-ft naturally aspirated. Ford's closest match makes 385hp and 387 lb-ft. Do a quick search for "Ecoboost 3.5 Blown up". Do the same search for "Chevy 6.2 Blown up". The 3.5 is overworked and will generally not have similar lifespan to what the Chevy V8s have been getting
Old 01-24-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoods Alaskan View Post
There is a reason.... that the F-Series have been the best selling trucks for more than 35 years,
And that reason is, the Ford guys have to buy a new one every few years when the old one breaks, while the Chevy guys are still driving their old one.

And relax...I have a 1990 Ford F-250, as well as a 2006 GMC.


My dad always said a 4WD is just good for getting you stuck in a worse place, we never had one. And we never got stuck...for long.

After all the kids were gone, he finally got one. He really loved the 4WD then, couldn't stop telling me stories about how well it worked and what he'd driven through.
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