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Old 12-30-2016, 04:28 PM
EZTarget EZTarget is offline
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Default 4x4 Deiseal Recommendation



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Looking for recommendations on an EMP proof 4x4 deiseal, for an everyday driver and Bug-out-vehicle?
Thanks for any help
Old 12-30-2016, 04:42 PM
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It's spelled diesel.

That said any pre '86 should do fine. In reality it seems EMP is not likely to fry vehicle electronics and you'd be better off saving your money or stocking up on diesel fuel.
Old 12-31-2016, 10:10 AM
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Many will have varying opinions on EMP. There is only a few with facts and that data dried up many years before Al Gore invented the internet and when we stopped nuclear testing. Fact is, EMP will compromise every semiconductor in its path unless it's specifically hardened.

Regardless, when you say "EMP proof", there are two ways to accomplish this.

1. invest many hundreds of thousands into an EMP hardened, custom made vehicle.

or

2. Buy a diesel with no semiconductors critical to starting and running. This means a mechanical Injection Pump. That's a short list, and older technology, but they're out there. 6.2L GM and 6.5L GM (can be modified) are but two. Older Mercedes. Older Nissan. Catching the pattern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by match View Post
That said any pre '86 should do fine.
Right in there, somewhere. The trick is to avoid the electronic injectors. New injector systems are far more efficient, but will be susceptible.

Notice I said "susceptible" and did not say "toast". Many factors are involved and many levels of crippling can occur. Chaos will help decide. You wanted "EMP proof" so your only option is to not have a semiconductor onboard.

And that means you'll want either a permanent magnet generator in place of the alternator or stash a spare diode pack in an EMP proof container.

But that's for another day.



DS
 
Old 12-31-2016, 10:18 AM
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98 and down ford f250 and f350 7.3l diesels and 97.5 and down Dodge 5.9L 12v Cummins trucks are the ones you want. They come in all varieties of single cab, extended cab, double cab, short bed, long bed, dually bed, cab and chassis....take your pick.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClovisMan View Post
98 and down ford f250 and f350 7.3l diesels and 97.5 and down Dodge 5.9L 12v Cummins trucks are the ones you want. They come in all varieties of single cab, extended cab, double cab, short bed, long bed, dually bed, cab and chassis....take your pick.
And so now it turns into a "diesel discussion".

These are all very fine diesels. Which is why they "are the ones you want" and you can "take your pick".

However, none of them are EMP proof. Not at all. They all have electronic ignition. They are "EMP Proof" only if one religiously denies EMP effects and emphatically declares "everything will be okay". I, for one, do not accept 'science by consensus'.

I'm guessing we'll hear many diesel recommendations. Many. But the diesels that are EMP Proof are those without electronics -- and no other.



DS
Old 12-31-2016, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClovisMan View Post
98 and down ford f250 and f350 7.3l diesels and 97.5 and down Dodge 5.9L 12v Cummins trucks are the ones you want. They come in all varieties of single cab, extended cab, double cab, short bed, long bed, dually bed, cab and chassis....take your pick.
I believe all of the above use electric fuel pumps, if so the could be damaged by an EMP.
Like dyingslower said, you need an all mechanical system. The old GM6.2L and possibly some of the very early 6.5L. So think 1982-87? or maybe as late as 1990. lots of them still out there.
Old 12-31-2016, 12:20 PM
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Yeah BUT, you have to get the manual transmission versions. The GM 6.5 TD for example used a mechanical injector pump through 92. However it was mated to either a 700r4E or a 4L80E automatic. The E meaning electronic. The control box is mounted in the dash behind the glove box. It is not very well shielded. The transmission goes into a limp home mode when it fails. Fixed in second gear with the torque converter unlocked. Your good for about 30 MPH with a very limited towing capacity. If you push it you'll end up doing a $2500 rebuild on the transmission. Don't ask me how I know.
Old 12-31-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyingslower View Post
And so now it turns into a "diesel discussion".

These are all very fine diesels. Which is why they "are the ones you want" and you can "take your pick".

However, none of them are EMP proof. Not at all. They all have electronic ignition. They are "EMP Proof" only if one religiously denies EMP effects and emphatically declares "everything will be okay". I, for one, do not accept 'science by consensus'.

I'm guessing we'll hear many diesel recommendations. Many. But the diesels that are EMP Proof are those without electronics -- and no other.



DS
Okay, so pick one of the above and park in a metal garage. Best your gonna get. The M35A2's from Govt Surplus are supposedly EMP hardened. They will get the job done but I wouldn't want to daily drive one.
Old 12-31-2016, 03:13 PM
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Pre-97.5 Dodge Diesels with the 6bt Cummins are basically all mechanical.

There are a few things to watch for. The fuel solenoid is an electronic part. It is very simple electro-magnet type unit. On the 89-93 trucks, this basically needs 12V power to allow fuel into the injection pump. If you switch off power to that wire the truck shuts off. I believe the later 94-97.5 trucks are set up the same way, but with the slightly different inline P-pump injection pump ( oil lubricated unit ).

The automatic 4spd trucks, have a TPS sensor and some simple 'computer' control over the overdrive and torque converter lockup.

The computer also provides control for the grid heater, rpm signal, etc. Most of that stuff is non-critical really.

The lift pump on both versions is a mechanical unit. On the early trucks the lift pump is a diaphragm unit. The later trucks have a nice piston lift pump. You can retrofit a low pressure version of the piston lift pump to the early trucks which is something I typically recommend.

Overall, I think the 91.5-93 Dodge trucks have the best overall combinations of parts. The problem has always been keeping the bodies together over time. The rotary pump 6bt Cummins is a GREAT engine. I would choose the 5spd manual, even the early Getrag unit, over the automatic. The transfer case is an all gear iron case NP205 unit with 32 spline front and rear outputs. The front axle is a kingpin Dana 60 unit. The weakest part is likely the D70 rear axle which came with a factory Power-lok differential most of the time.

My recommended minimum upgrades....

-Low pressure piston lift pump
-Overfill the Getrag with good synthetic 5w30
-Upgrade the front driveshaft to a stronger unit, I did a 1410 non-cv front shaft.
-Swap the rear yokes over to U-bolt style units
-Change the steering to a crossover system.



They are great old trucks, but they are old trucks. They are basically 1970s truck technology....leaf springs, bad brakes, squeaks, rattles, etc. Mine has well over 300K miles on it. It is my daily driver and has been for the last 8+ years.
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Old 12-31-2016, 04:13 PM
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7.3 liter Ford.
5.9 liter Cummins
Old 12-31-2016, 04:25 PM
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landrovers series 1-3 are rock solid.
Old 12-31-2016, 09:47 PM
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While my truck is not a diesel, I wanted to share how I'm getting around the EMP problem with a computer controlled EFI gas engine. I bought a parts truck and stripped it of all the wiring, sensors, and the ECM. All of that lives in my EMP trash can now. As long as "it" happens while the cat is close to home I should be able to repair anything that gets fried.

Maybe the best way to EMP proof your diesel is to buy something a little newer and do something similar?
Old 12-31-2016, 09:49 PM
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Oh, and I'll throw in a 2L diesel engine toyota into the hat, since you can import them now.
Old 01-01-2017, 01:41 AM
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My horse farts like a diesel and he's emp proof
Old 01-01-2017, 10:28 AM
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Default Totally EMP Proof

I had a 1985 M1009 CUCV (K5 Checy Blazer) and it was a great truck. I only sold it because I needed something that would haul our camper. It has a weak but extremely reliable 6.2L diesel and a HD 400 transmission. Great all around truck. Mine had some mods and I sold it for 6K but you can fine them for around 3K all day long.

Good luck!

Derek
Old 01-01-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKII View Post
I believe all of the above use electric fuel pumps, if so the could be damaged by an EMP.
Like dyingslower said, you need an all mechanical system. The old GM6.2L and possibly some of the very early 6.5L. So think 1982-87? or maybe as late as 1990. lots of them still out there.
I can't speak authoritatively on the Fords but the pre 97.5 Dodge Cummins truck have a mechanical lift pump, which I assume is what you mean. It's possible to get an air starter for a Cummins 6BT. With a 89-93 Cummins with the fuel solenoid converted to manual, a manual transmission and an air starter you would have a truck that literally requires zero electronics to start or operate. Is it worth it? IMO, no, it's not. EMP is not that big a deal for most vehicles, at least based on the best information that we have access to.
Old 01-01-2017, 11:03 AM
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The last report I saw where real life EMP tests were done and it was strange some vehicles had no issues, some needed a new battery and some never ran again. I think it was done in the last 10 years, can't find it now but it was interesting that the conclusion was no one really knows what an EMP will do to a given vehicle because no one really knows just how strong or weak the EMP will be in all areas of the United States.
Old 01-01-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by match View Post
It's spelled diesel.

That said any pre '86 should do fine. In reality it seems EMP is not likely to fry vehicle electronics and you'd be better off saving your money or stocking up on diesel fuel.

What's the general conscious on the life of diesel fuel? Most agree that gasoline will last a year without Stabil.....with Stabil....maybe two years.

What about Diesel?
Old 01-01-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
What's the general conscious on the life of diesel fuel? Most agree that gasoline will last a year without Stabil.....with Stabil....maybe two years.

What about Diesel?
Diesel fuel lasts a long long time. Generally it will start to absorb water from the air and eventually grow stuff in it. For the most part that stuff can be removed and the 'fuel' part is still good, but that is an extra step. There are fuel storage additives that help prevent these problems. Storing the fuel out of the sun to help prevent some thermal breakdown is also good.

Store it in sealed full containers out of the sun.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metcalf View Post
Diesel fuel lasts a long long time.

How long is a long, long time?????

1 year......5 years......10 years?????


We have converted.... My rig is diesel. The wife's rig is diesel. Next would be for us to own a UTV/Side-by-side that is diesel.
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