EMP proof Ford? - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford 300, 302 and 360 rustybones Vehicles & Transportation 30 07-19-2015 07:14 PM
Harrison Ford -- Ricekila General Discussion 70 03-08-2015 04:31 PM
best bullet proof vest / slash proof shakesxxx Reviews and questions 1 02-02-2014 12:51 AM
Ford 2N 8N or 9N? JoeKan Farming, Gardening & Homesteading 22 12-11-2013 11:20 AM
Rob Ford is entertaining.... zatoichi Political News and Discussion 2 11-23-2013 01:09 PM
Fire Proof/Water Proof Safe nico027 DIY - Do It Yourself 7 03-14-2012 12:32 AM
Ford's Cloud Car blackkitty The Tech Zone 1 07-16-2011 01:54 AM
Have You Driven A Ford Lately. Caoccha Jokes, Humor & Music 14 05-14-2009 02:47 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-31-2012, 06:09 PM
RezPvtPyle's Avatar
RezPvtPyle RezPvtPyle is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Smith Lake, NM
Posts: 127
Thanks: 74
Thanked 24 Times in 18 Posts
Default EMP proof Ford?



Advertise Here

I ran into a 1984 Ford F-150. It had a straight-6 with a single-carberator, as best as I can figure. I was wondering if I were to buy this truck will it be EMP protected? If not what would be needed to make it such? Thanks.
Old 10-31-2012, 09:49 PM
wildcat84's Avatar
wildcat84 wildcat84 is offline
Cat Person
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia/Kentucky
Posts: 1,375
Thanks: 262
Thanked 2,042 Times in 764 Posts
Default

EMP proof would require a pre electronic ignition system.

Actually I think even a Model T would be subject to EMP...
The Following User Says Thank You to wildcat84 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-31-2012, 10:01 PM
Hunter53's Avatar
Hunter53 Hunter53 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 2,447
Thanks: 2,712
Thanked 4,185 Times in 1,700 Posts
Default

electronic ignition came out in the 70's
The Following User Says Thank You to Hunter53 For This Useful Post:
 
Old 10-31-2012, 10:12 PM
FarmerJohn FarmerJohn is offline
This is a great survival forum
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19,296
Thanks: 6,762
Thanked 26,427 Times in 10,443 Posts
Default

hate to break it to you all but most modern cars will still function just fine after a emp.

I can site scientific sources

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2...ission-7MB.pdf
Quote:
Automobiles
The potential EMP vulnerability of automobiles derives from the use of built-in elec-
tronics that support multiple automotive functions. Electronic components were first introduced into automobiles in the late 1960s. As time passed and electronics technolo- gies evolved, electronic applications in automobiles proliferated. Modern automobiles have as many as 100 microprocessors that control virtually all functions. While electronic applications have proliferated within automobiles, so too have application standards and electromagnetic interference and electromagnetic compatibility (EMI/EMC) practices. Thus, while it might be expected that increased EMP vulnerability would accompany the proliferated electronics applications, this trend, at least in part, is mitigated by the increased application of EMI/EMC practices.
We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vin- tages ranging from 1986 through 2002. Automobiles of these vintages include extensive electronics and represent a significant fraction of automobiles on the road today. The testing was conducted by exposing running and nonrunning automobiles to sequentially increasing EMP field intensities. If anomalous response (either temporary or permanent) was observed, the testing of that particular automobile was stopped. If no anomalous response was observed, the testing was continued up to the field intensity limits of the simulation capability (approximately 50 kV/m).
Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on run- ning automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approxi- mately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.
Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious mal- functions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be trig- gered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the conse- quent loss of life, and multiple injuries.
findings driver over reaction will cause more problems than the emp
Old 11-01-2012, 06:46 AM
Tax Man's Avatar
Tax Man Tax Man is offline
I <3 FAR 43
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 402
Thanks: 11
Thanked 246 Times in 137 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
hate to break it to you...
Man, it's refreshing to hear that I'm not the only one in the world who isnt really worried about this.
The Following User Says Thank You to Tax Man For This Useful Post:
Old 11-01-2012, 09:16 AM
Happy Joe's Avatar
Happy Joe Happy Joe is offline
Apprentice Geezer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,443
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,926 Times in 1,149 Posts
Default

Yep!
However informed beacons of reality (like FarmerJohn) are in the minority and usually drowned out by the vast misinformation/fantasy machine called the internet.

Enjoy!
The Following User Says Thank You to Happy Joe For This Useful Post:
Old 11-01-2012, 11:45 AM
FarmerJohn FarmerJohn is offline
This is a great survival forum
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 19,296
Thanks: 6,762
Thanked 26,427 Times in 10,443 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tax Man View Post
Man, it's refreshing to hear that I'm not the only one in the world who isnt really worried about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Joe View Post
Yep!
However informed beacons of reality (like FarmerJohn) are in the minority and usually drowned out by the vast misinformation/fantasy machine called the internet.

Enjoy!
thank you for the compliment.

Unfortunatly if you read the EMP commissions report to congress (linked above) in its entirety there are a great many things to worry about with an emp event just not like in one second after.

for example your transformers on your power lines will be down and we do not have the ability to replace them quickly there no longer manufactured in the US so you will have massive power outages for a prolonged time. distribution with its last minute schedules will be thrown into chaos even if trucks are still able to run
and if you had a prolonged power outage say in NYC or chicago in the dead of winter you could see alot of people die from exposure

so there are serious problems that would be caused by a emp but direct loss of life will be minimal and mostly from secondary causes.

but the critical national infrastructres report is a great eye opening read as to really what would happen and how they tested alot of stuff

my worry is more that the dollar will lose more of its value making buying things difficult hence i focus on self sufficiency not fantasize on running and gunning bugging out or some TEOTWAKI that will never happen

but some people play fantasy football others survivalism

and to the op Id get the 84 or older ford because older trucks are put together a hell of alot better than the new POS they sell us now
Old 03-21-2013, 06:55 AM
dspy8083 dspy8083 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Future Weapons EMP tests a Ford Taurus-fries it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Aj54FcI7_dE
Old 04-05-2013, 01:08 PM
warhawk-77's Avatar
warhawk-77 warhawk-77 is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fort Wayne IN
Age: 40
Posts: 863
Thanks: 303
Thanked 556 Times in 242 Posts
Default

I have been thinking about picking up a bronco or blazer to use as a Bug out vehicle but I was a little worried about EMP also. Thanks for that info farmerjohn
The Following User Says Thank You to warhawk-77 For This Useful Post:
Old 04-06-2013, 06:20 AM
Happy Joe's Avatar
Happy Joe Happy Joe is offline
Apprentice Geezer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,443
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,926 Times in 1,149 Posts
Default

There ate two kinds of people with respect to EMP;
Those that believe all of the (unsupported internet hype, and the outdated video above)
and those that take the time to do the research that indicates that many to most vehicles will be largely unaffected at least initially.
Personally, I don't worry about it and keep some spare parts to repair the affected systems; but I also keep a carburettor with manifold, alternator rebuild kit and points style distributor for use in the event that I am wrong.
You couldn't pay me enough to consider using a carburetor and points in a vehicle on a daily basis let alone off road under normal circumstances.

I am generally a Ford guy but given the choice between full size Bronco or Blazer I would go with the Blazer even though I would probably have to do, fuel injection, suspension, axle and steering mods to make it fit for off road and daily driver use.

Enjoy!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Happy Joe For This Useful Post:
Old 04-06-2013, 06:59 AM
9111315's Avatar
9111315 9111315 is online now
Plan Z: Run!
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: central America
Posts: 17,127
Thanks: 26,022
Thanked 25,428 Times in 10,505 Posts
Default

Just keep an extra ignition coil and points in a protective container.

Some of the early electronic ignition vehicles use relatively simple module that could also be backed up by a spare.

By the time you get into the full computer vehicles with O2 and every other sensor, there are just too many items that could fail. An EMP does not have to fry the computer in you car; the loss of a few sensors could make it run like crap or not at all.

The question in an EMP or any other disaster is: If it breaks, can you fix it or do without it?
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 9111315 For This Useful Post:
Old 04-06-2013, 11:52 AM
Happy Joe's Avatar
Happy Joe Happy Joe is offline
Apprentice Geezer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,443
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,926 Times in 1,149 Posts
Default

A question;
What makes people here think the ignition coil is particularly susceptible to EMP? I regularly see this mentioned but in my experience in abusing ignition coils with literally hundreds of volts and often excessive amperage on the primary side (when it gets hot enough to smell its time to back off) I don't believe that I have ever seen it cause a failure. (High tension electricity can be quite entertaining!).

In terms of early Ford electronic ignition boxes; they fail for no apparent reason and should be the first things to check when an ignition issue seems to be present. A popular way around the spark box is to kludge together a substitute using a GM HEI module bolted to a a heat sink and using the plugs and wires from the Ford spark box (some Jeeps also used Ford spark boxes; not one of their better decisions). Personally I would just replace the box with a MSD-6a, if I wanted to keep an antique Ford or Jeep.

The sensors are just parts and are easy to change; most just plug in, they are widely available in most scrap yards... not a big deal.

Enjoy!
Old 04-07-2013, 12:46 PM
minitruck83 minitruck83 is offline
Hiker
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 667
Thanks: 4,629
Thanked 646 Times in 335 Posts
Default

"the testing was continued up to the field intensity limits of the simulation capability (approximately 50 kV/m)."

Does this measurement (50/kVm) apply to an actual occurrence?

I vaguely remember 100/kVm being mentioned back when we had drills sheltering under our desks at school.
Old 04-08-2013, 09:42 AM
Happy Joe's Avatar
Happy Joe Happy Joe is offline
Apprentice Geezer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,443
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,926 Times in 1,149 Posts
Default

Yet the actual emp will only induce voltage at relatively low currents, the expected voltage is determined by the wire length that the EMP wave front encounters (basic physics) and the vehicle computers and sensors seem to survive sparks well in excess of 100kv directly applied to their inputs/outputs, in my experiments (sometimes generated by ignition coils driven by a high frequency oscillator).
Spark voltage estimated based on the fact that they jump over 2 inch gaps (estimated spark gap voltage, in dry air, at sea level is approximately 100kv per inch).

So devices connected to long wires (unburied AC lines, telephone lines, etc) are probably going to be much more affected by an emp while devices with short conductors (vehicle electronics, electronic parts and computers that are in storage etc.) will be less affected.

It is always, to some extent, risky to depend wholly upon theory; so I recommend keeping a stock of critical vehicle electronic pars for use if the vehicle becomes disabled (either through emp or just because of substandard (often chinese) electronic parts failure). In case of an absolute worst case scenario I keep a carburetor & manifold along with a points distributor and low pressure fuel pump on the shelf for my engines. This, however is becoming a more difficult option as many/most newer engine families no longer have the mounting location for a distributor and existing manifolds for many, require a custom adapter to use a carburetor. If you don't know how to service and trouble shoot your parts and equipment I suggest you learn now as later could be too late.

Prepare, in depth, for the worst case, don't believe most internet hype, confirm it if at all possible by research (NOT youtube), and hope for the best scenario (backed up by research).

Enjoy!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Happy Joe For This Useful Post:
Old 12-10-2016, 05:23 PM
bsd4083's Avatar
bsd4083 bsd4083 is offline
Reach-out Kill enemy
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MIDWEST
Posts: 271
Thanks: 1,362
Thanked 175 Times in 108 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Joe View Post
There ate two kinds of people with respect to EMP;
Those that believe all of the (unsupported internet hype, and the outdated video above)
and those that take the time to do the research that indicates that many to most vehicles will be largely unaffected at least initially.
Personally, I don't worry about it and keep some spare parts to repair the affected systems; but I also keep a carburettor with manifold, alternator rebuild kit and points style distributor for use in the event that I am wrong.
You couldn't pay me enough to consider using a carburetor and points in a vehicle on a daily basis let alone off road under normal circumstances.

I am generally a Ford guy but given the choice between full size Bronco or Blazer I would go with the Blazer even though I would probably have to do, fuel injection, suspension, axle and steering mods to make it fit for off road and daily driver use.

Enjoy!
good to know i am doing 1987 bronco xlt
Old 12-11-2016, 09:20 AM
dyingslower dyingslower is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: A Hay Field in Kansas
Posts: 204
Thanks: 17
Thanked 288 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Now that everyone has convinced themselves all about how EMP will do them no harm -- after all they *RESEARCHED* it on the Internet, I feel much better. All these Ph.D candidates and all these Engineers right here on this list that found what they wanted to believe on the internet. Then pat each other on the back for being so smart.

Wow. Just wow....

Obviously, such competence cannot be argued with. I know i can't. Even though an "EMP simulation laboratory" does not and cannot exist, we'll believe an article that tells us what we want to hear. Okay. Go ahead. Appears to be the facts showed up too late.

Who, me? Oh, I just design EMP hardening for nuclear-capable aircraft, that's all. I've been in the EMP disciplines since the early 1980s and then into Lightning Strike concerns for aircraft since long before Al Gore invented the internet. But that might not compete with a farmer.

There are no "EMP simulation laboratories". Anyone that bases their 'research' on that is in error, or selling something. There are some capable HIRF installations, but that is far from the same thing. Part of the big problem that we've always struggled with is that EMP cannot be adequately nor accurately 'simulated' without nuclear detonation. You might could imagine how the neighbors would complain.

Your 'internet research' may not have revealed that pesky little point. Our data is good, but it basically stopped in the 60s. Because it was 'nuclear', it was pooh-poohed for 2 solid decades. Now, all of a sudden, it's a concern and unsurprisingly, few know anything about it.

Anything with a PN junction is susceptible to EMP. The more populated the PN junctions, and the smaller the junction area, the more susceptible the item is. Rather than waste the time of such informed internet "researchers" <chuckle>, I'll let you explain to each other what that means. And then pat each other on the back some more.

Believe as you will. My guess is you'll be stealing what you want soon enough because the world didn't work out the way you were told. You're setting yourself up for banditry. That's fine. Not my business. But no need setting up someone else that comes asking.

A 300 I6 Ford has electronic ignition. The PN junction in the Hall Effect sensor (under the distributor cap) will probably be toasted. The linear components (resistors, caps) in the control board will not.

Wait... probably oughta go 'research' that on the internet - although i doubt it's on the internet what with all the Mr. Wizard types out there. Don't just take the word of someone that's been in it and been paid for the expertise. Take the word of someone that's been paid to write a story about it. That's REAL research.


DS
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dyingslower For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2016, 11:46 AM
mountainrebel mountainrebel is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: pikeville tennesse
Posts: 19
Thanks: 2
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default

That was good to now thank you
The Following User Says Thank You to mountainrebel For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2016, 06:33 PM
Survival_Joe's Avatar
Survival_Joe Survival_Joe is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Washington State
Posts: 247
Thanks: 1
Thanked 273 Times in 119 Posts
Default

It all depends on how strong the emp is. You cant replicate in a lab the effects of a Carrington type event. Nor can you replicate in a lab the effects of a powerful nuke.
The Following User Says Thank You to Survival_Joe For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2016, 06:43 PM
Rockwell Torrey's Avatar
Rockwell Torrey Rockwell Torrey is offline
Ingloriously Deplorable
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 1,461
Thanks: 1,333
Thanked 3,314 Times in 1,144 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RezPvtPyle View Post
I ran into a 1984 Ford F-150. It had a straight-6 with a single-carberator, as best as I can figure. I was wondering if I were to buy this truck will it be EMP protected? If not what would be needed to make it such? Thanks.
I happen to be very familiar with that model. It has an electronic ignition module which, every so often, craps out. Normally happens at the most inopportune times, like it has a sensor for that or something.

The module isn't all that difficult to replace, requires a special wrench available at any auto parts store and is easily accessible next to the distributor. Just remember to use the special sauce when you replace it. There's also a contact down on the distributor shaft which requires pulling the distributor and shaft, but that's pretty straightforward.

That module is about all the electronics on those, unless you count the AM/FM stereo cassette.....
The Following User Says Thank You to Rockwell Torrey For This Useful Post:
Old 12-30-2016, 01:06 PM
Kerryphillips Kerryphillips is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 118
Thanks: 22
Thanked 94 Times in 39 Posts
Default EMP

IMHO, EMP is way overhyped. Modern electronics are rugged. On cars, the voltage regulator and diodes for the alternator will make an EMP-proof vehicle impossible.
Electronic ignition is way more reliable then points and condenser!
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net