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Old 02-17-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by juskom95 View Post
Yup, this.

Every single Police and Sheriff department I know of receives a significant amount of their operating budget from the feds. Every year.
Especially the special ops programs.....drug enforcement, s.w.a.t. and s.e.r.t. teams who are armed with military capabilities. Hell, even traffic enforcement is subsidized significantly by the federal taxpayer. Click it and Ticket, MCSAP, overtime speed Enforcement, special DUI patrols....the list is endless.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:58 PM
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If its full on TEOTWAWKI then Money WILL NOT MATTER any more than Sunscreen .
Old 02-17-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MGalil View Post
I don't see a civil war happening.

Yes, it's true that Americans are bitterly divided, and that the hate is real. But let's look at this issue rationally.

We've already had a Civil War, you say. Not really. The last Civil War was in fact a sectional rebellion. True, there were Confederate sympathizers in the north and Unionists in the south, but the war could not have been as long and as bitter, as it was, and the secessionists as successful as they were, had there not been a territorial base. The territorial base was also home to a cultural integrity, a Southern identity which gave the rebs something to fight for. But even so, they were crushed.

In the case of the proposed Civil War II, you've got a bunch of supposedly red territories all over the country that are going to rise up against the blue cities in their midst? Think of it. This is not gonna happen. There is no cultural continuity between these red areas, which stretch from Oregon to the gulf Coast and up to Maine. I would suggest reading Colin Woodard's American Nations for a fuller explanation of the vast diversity of the US republic.

Talk of civil war is fantasy talk. There is no choice but to fight in the arena of US politics as it is.
This must be a photo of "sectional rebellion". I bet if you ask a recruit if he'd rather fight a sectional rebellion or a war.....he pick sectional rebellion every time.

 
Old 02-17-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky1950 View Post
I cant speak for any area except those counties surrounding me, but you can count on the Harris County Sheriff (Houston) trying to sit on the fence, but the surrounding counties will definitely take a side, and not the libs side. This is not about "good guys" and "bad guys" which is dependent on your viewpoint, but more like commonality of social and political thought with those the sheriffs represent.
I respectfully disagree. Social and Political thought and viewpoints can change with varying degrees of hardship and self-interest. Your Sheriff's social and political viewpoints at this very moment coincide with their perceived level of safety and security.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:05 PM
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I respectfully disagree. Social and Political thought and viewpoints can change with varying degrees of hardship and self-interest. Your Sheriff's social and political viewpoints at this very moment coincide with their perceived level of safety and security.
Then what you are saying is that beliefs, no matter how fervently held, are easily dismissed when personal hardship occurs. I disagree, but to each his own. Hopefully it will never happen.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
If it gets to point of picking a side (There will be no Banks operating or checks in the mail for Doctors or Prison Guards or DFG or NFS rangers ...)
Your thoughts on this subject seem to be entrenched in the idea that there will be a sudden event with consequences following. Mine are of the thought of a very long and strategic scenario that we are already witnessing in action.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:19 PM
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Then what you are saying is that beliefs, no matter how fervently held, are easily dismissed when personal hardship occurs. I disagree, but to each his own. Hopefully it will never happen.
No. And I really don't appreciate the veiled insult.
Old 02-17-2017, 01:24 PM
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What veiled insult?
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MGalil View Post
....
In the case of the proposed Civil War II, you've got a bunch of supposedly red territories all over the country that are going to rise up against the blue cities in their midst? Think of it. This is not gonna happen. There is no cultural continuity between these red areas, which stretch from Oregon to the gulf Coast and up to Maine. I would suggest reading Colin Woodard's American Nations for a fuller explanation of the vast diversity of the US republic.

Talk of civil war is fantasy talk. There is no choice but to fight in the arena of US politics as it is.
Why would red areas of the country rise up against blue cities? They have the house, senate, presidency, more governorships, more state legislatures, and soon the supreme court.

There's more cultural continuity in the red areas then there is in the blue areas. They're the group made up of some sort of random coalition of "wronged" groups. They're the most likely to fracture if they gain power because they don't necessarily have the same goals; just currently the same common opponent.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by InOmaha View Post
Why would red areas of the country rise up against blue cities? They have the house, senate, presidency, more governorships, more state legislatures, and soon the supreme court.

There's more cultural continuity in the red areas then there is in the blue areas. They're the group made up of some sort of random coalition of "wronged" groups. They're the most likely to fracture if they gain power because they don't necessarily have the same goals; just currently the same common opponent.
60 Giant Cities would chew up the resources of the Military & NG , the folks in the Red hinterlands would be lucky to see any large numbers of Local or Regional NG AT ALL ...
Old 02-17-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
I respectfully disagree. Social and Political thought and viewpoints can change with varying degrees of hardship and self-interest. Your Sheriff's social and political viewpoints at this very moment coincide with their perceived level of safety and security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky1950 View Post
Then what you are saying is that beliefs, no matter how fervently held, are easily dismissed when personal hardship occurs. I disagree, but to each his own. Hopefully it will never happen.
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Originally Posted by Sky1950 View Post
What veiled insult?
I apologize Brother if I misunderstood your post but it appeared that you are taking my precise wording of "varying degrees of hardship and self-interest" out of context and applying it to my personal character.

To clarify, I do not think that fervently held beliefs are easily dismissed. But I do believe that most beliefs are not as fervently held as we believe them to be when they actually tested in gradual or incremental fashion.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGalil View Post
I don't see a civil war happening.

Yes, it's true that Americans are bitterly divided, and that the hate is real. But let's look at this issue rationally.

We've already had a Civil War, you say. Not really. The last Civil War was in fact a sectional rebellion. True, there were Confederate sympathizers in the north and Unionists in the south, but the war could not have been as long and as bitter, as it was, and the secessionists as successful as they were, had there not been a territorial base. The territorial base was also home to a cultural integrity, a Southern identity which gave the rebs something to fight for. But even so, they were crushed.

In the case of the proposed Civil War II, you've got a bunch of supposedly red territories all over the country that are going to rise up against the blue cities in their midst? Think of it. This is not gonna happen. There is no cultural continuity between these red areas, which stretch from Oregon to the gulf Coast and up to Maine. I would suggest reading Colin Woodard's American Nations for a fuller explanation of the vast diversity of the US republic.

Talk of civil war is fantasy talk. There is no choice but to fight in the arena of US politics as it is.
The red "flyover country" is much more culturally cohesive than those that belong to the "blue "rainbow coalition". I've been from PA to GA to MT and many small towns in between and had a TON in common with everyone I met.

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Originally Posted by MdNiM View Post
Especially the special ops programs.....drug enforcement, s.w.a.t. and s.e.r.t. teams who are armed with military capabilities. Hell, even traffic enforcement is subsidized significantly by the federal taxpayer. Click it and Ticket, MCSAP, overtime speed Enforcement, special DUI patrols....the list is endless.
While this is true, it assumes the fed gov is going to step in to a civil war. It also assumes that they can do anything to slow/stop it. I'm betting most of the alphabet agencies will shelter in place and see what shakes out from the conflict.

Doing anything else will expose them and their families to immense risk.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:19 PM
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Lots of interesting speculation and discussion in this thread.

I'll just throw in a couple considerations that speak to some of the items raised.

While I can appreciate some of the advantages of cultural homogeneity, resources and firearms ownership in rural, red America, much has changed in recent decades to diminish the power of a rural population versus the urban to have the upper hand in armed conflict.

As pointed out earlier, it's much easier today to stir up trouble in a built up area and either hide from the authorities or force them to blow apart the entire block, etc. in their attempts to go after such troublemakers with conventional weapons and tactics. An organized left-leaning gang network could also easily terrify the more conservative portions of the population and would be extremely difficult to root out.

For all of the advantages of rural areas, many technological developments have made it much harder to hide in lightly populated areas, and it would be much easier for a modern, equipped military force, or perhaps even less disciplined or organized group to take out any opposition piecemeal. A rural insurgency, (or in many of the situations we're contemplating, rural counterinsurgency) might not have all the advantages of a similar movement several decades ago, or at the very least it's naÔve to boast with too much certitude about its inevitable success.

I could see America's larger urban cores that might side with the progressive/left side of any future conflict being vulnerable in many ways, but it won't be an easy place for any force to enter into and pacify without lots of local support. And any sloppiness in execution of such an occupation will likely cause enough collateral damage to gain many enemies. Even many probable supporters of the occupying force might withdraw their support if they cannot protect them from intimidation from their opponents/insurgents. If the left adopts Maoist insurgency tactics, it will likely be very risky to openly support the other side, or even try to remain neutral.

Perhaps the best tactic for any side of a civil conflict at odds with the predominant factions in America's bigger cities would be to ensure that they lose electrical power and other modern amenities until they become unlivable. Perhaps in some of the older Northeastern cities where larger populations of blacks and whites live in closer proximity than elsewhere, the inner city poverty might be weaponized and turned on the liberal white urbanites. I'm all for improving race relations and the economic outcomes of the disaffected, but if there's any place in America that might degrade to the equivalent of the Belgian Congo at its independence, it will be in those inner city areas where the traditional family structure has been undermined by the welfare state. That will probably in most cases break down into the poor burning down their own neighbourhoods, but there's probably several strategically significant US cities where that could spill over into more affluent, but predominantly liberal, white urban areas.

So much has changed in recent decades that it's increasingly difficult to predict the future. Thankfully my parents suffered far less from WW2 on account of living in a rural European village than our other relatives who had to live through massive air raids or besiegement by the Red Army, with all that that entailed. But even their hometown's ability to feed itself was far more advanced than most parts of rural North America today, and that same hometown would have been an awful place to live had it been targeted by a military force for genocide, whatever the motivating factor for that might have been.

And lets not forget that with modern technology and communications, most people will likely be categorized by one side or another based upon their electronic footprints, metadata, social media activity, etc., so it's anyone's guess how those emerging technologies might be used against people, regardless of their stance towards a future conflict.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Caseyboy View Post
I donít know about the rest of you but Iím having a difficult time understanding, or dealing with an acceptance of what has been happening in the American population at large.

First of all, President Trump has not come close to issuing Executive Orders that are unconstitutional, dangerous to the Republic and most of all, illegal.
You can't ban people with green cards. That's like denying people to drive who have drivers' licenses. They have to break the law first.


Quote:
Every time Obama opened his mouth it was a lie
Trump was 2015's "Liar of the Year" recipient. Obama won it when?

Quote:
Not only that but he was aiding and abetting our mortal enemies and everybody on the left seems to think that was okay.
You mean like what Trump does with Putin?

Quote:
Now, you have a man who has Americaís interest at heart and heís being defied every time he turns around.
So when he agreed to the "One China" policy in exchange for being granted a ten year registered trade mark of the name "Trump" in China, he was doing that with America's best interests at heart? And that's why he won't place his assets in trust or reveal his income taxes?




Quote:
His family is being attacked, heís being attacked personally, his nominees for his cabinet are being maligned,
One had to resign and another refused his vacant position. Even Republicans recognized his Secretary of Education to be an uneducated moron. Pence had to close his eyes and pass the idiot.



Quote:
Youíve got cities in the United States of America that are blatantly not upholding the laws of the land by sheltering criminals, and every time I turn around Iím hearing someone else say,Ē this is not my President.Ē If he isnít our President who is?
Steve Bannon


Quote:
Iíll make a prediction here; if these people continue to block a legally elected POTUS, and they continue to riot, destroy public and private property, and make every effort to bring our country down to its knees, something is going to happen.
It's called impeachment.



Quote:
It isnít going to take too much more to light the fuse to an explosive powder keg that is going to blow up in the left's face, and when the streets run with their blood theyíre going to beg us to stop killing them. However, once it starts it will not end quickly and it will not end graciously. It will end, and the left will be decimated when itís over with. That is what is coming and what is truly sad, the left has no idea just how bad it can and will get. They don't seem to understand people on the right know who they are and where they live.
Reading your post reminds me of how Trump called for Hillary to be assassinated twice.

I'm surprised you didn't heed the call.



Quote:
It needs to end, and America needs to get back on track to greatness and to freedom. America needs to be brought back to its owners, the American people. The people need to step in and make the corrections that will stop the internal destruction of America and it needs to stop now or there will be no America and that will happen very sudden like. Ask anyone who has experienced combat and ask them if they are ready for the stage that is being set for what is coming to get a realistic answer to that question.

Caseyboy
All we have to do is shoot the Left until they "beg us not to." Right?

Have you looked at Trump's approval ratings? Who is in the majority? But you don't care? How democratic are you?

I like to think I'm as conservative as anybody else but I'm not arming up to shoot my neighbors. Good luck with that. No one is required in this country to like Trump or face prison or a firing squad for not doing so. The reason you're able to post now is because we all have that right.

We wouldn't if you were in charge. You're just as much a threat to me as they are.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by InOmaha View Post
Why would red areas of the country rise up against blue cities? They have the house, senate, presidency, more governorships, more state legislatures, and soon the supreme court.

There's more cultural continuity in the red areas then there is in the blue areas. They're the group made up of some sort of random coalition of "wronged" groups. They're the most likely to fracture if they gain power because they don't necessarily have the same goals; just currently the same common opponent.
That's why the reds lost the Spanish Civil War, because the anarchists, trotskyists, lenninists and marxists were at each others' throats. Franco had a fraction of their money and resources, but more committment and sense of unity on his side. He did not have all the army as many think, and in fact much of the navy and air force was on the red side.
Old 02-17-2017, 10:48 PM
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I really wish Trump was on our side. He's in a position to change the whole system. He was elected because people are sick of the same old bs from your career politicians. He won because people want the focus back on their own country. They want jobs to stop bleeding out of the U.S. to the lowest bidder. I completely agree with that and want the same. The problem is, Trump is not here to help the poor man. He's really not. Do you think this guy cares about Joe coal miner and his struggle? He may stay in office but eventually he's going to start making decisions that hurt Joe coal worker. He won't do it right away. When he does show his true, true colors, it'll be too late. This guy is a giant red flag. He wants to be America's dictator....I wish I didn't think that because I could get some sleep at night. I respect everyone's opinion and I'm not trying to troll. It's just that this guy is bad news. He doesn't even really hide it. Has he ever cared about the average guy before this?
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:48 AM
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Sam Ruger,
I was wondering when someone such as yourself was going to take my posting and twist it around my neck. You call yourself conservative and I suppose we can call ourselves any name we want to adopt but it doesn't take your stand to heart logically.

No one is able to account for the $6 billion missing from the State department, and there is less accounting of the billions Obama sent to the Middle East. When Obama shut down the Gulf oil drilling and a Federal Judge told him he couldn't do it he did it anyway. He also armed our enemies, namely ISIS with American tax dollars. That is America's money not an open checkbook for the likes of Obama to spend on supporting our avowed enemies worldwide. He also stirred up race relations to such a negative effect we will probably not get over that damage for years. Of course there is more, a lot more, but it isn't in this purview to dissect them all.

I could go on but there is no point as far as I'm concerned. You and people like you who embrace Obama and believe that Trump is going to sink the ship of state are the problems most Americans are facing today. Trump is into the Presidency scarcely a month and he has accomplished more in those 30 days than Obama did in 8 years. Obviously, more people wanted him than they did Hillary as the new President and he was duly elected as such.

Obama's legacy will go down in history as the absolute worst POTUS ever elected to the Presidency and his Muslim idealism will eventually complete the calculations of the damage he has done or caused to be done to the USA.

There is a day of reckoning coming to many in the US. Most people are very aware of the damage the left has done to the country and it isn't going to take much of a push to bring out those who will defend America. I bear you no malice just utter contempt for anyone who would embrace the workings of Obama, an enemy of the US and an enemy of the people. You can't sit on the fence about this one and you cannot explain yourself in any other words other than to hear the words, "anyone who embraces socialism and the ideals of socialism are the enemy of the people of the USA." At least I see Trump trying to right so many wrongs that have been inflicted on America. So far, I sure am willing to give him a chance to see what he will get done and evaluate whether it was the correct thing to do.

I've read many comments from people such as yourself during the 8 years I've been a member of this forum and it never ceases to amaze me how twisted and perverted views can be. They can be, unfortunately, and you have taken a posting of grave concern I have expressed as an opinion and made an effort to impale me with it. Good luck on that one and I hope you can see the light before the darkness you live in leaves you permanently blinded. You're going to need your sight and a proper sense of what is right and wrong.
Caseyboy
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:08 AM
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I'm not worried at all. In fact, I am just sitting back laughing my ass off at some of these idiot people and watching them destroy their own stuff. LET THEM.

The so-called "Liberals", which could not be further from the truth, are vandalizing and burning their OWN cities. I find that hilarious. I say more power to you. They are too stupid to realize they will need that someday and it only costs THEM money to pay for it to be repaired or rebuilt. Sure, it is a bit annoying to watch their behavior, but when you consider it is just their own crap, really, who cares.

I am what is now called a "Classic Liberal". Or, as the Libtards these days call me......a Conservative lol. I, like tens of millions of others, including President Trump, woke up one day and found the Liberal movement (Democrat Party), had left me. So now, I am just an Independent. Right-leaning on most, Left leaning on a few things. I don't believe Trump is a full Republican, he is more of an Independent than Republican. But I think we all realize todays, Liberal Fascists are a danger to our way of life and nation. Not physically, but socially. They are a disease that needs to be stamped out into the ground. They have tantrums and cannot accept not having everything their own way.

As to a Civil War? No. They are not organized enough to even be close to one. Most of them have no weapons or training of any type. The actual numbers of those that would fight would be small. They are just going to be dumbasses and burn their own **** lol. The only threat of a civil war comes from the "Right", but being we are the ones in power Federally and thru many states, that isn't a threat right now.

If Urban areas did get feisty, you just shut off the Power, Water, and Sewer. Game over LOL. As much as I would like to see California, Oregon, Washington actually secede, they won't because California is too broke and doesn't have things like their own Fresh clean drinking water to do it. Too bad, that would be an awesome place for all the Liberal Fascists to move to.

Trump is doing just what he said he would do while campaigning. A first for a Politician. I love how the Liberal Fascists are screaming about his immigration program but it is at this time, only a continuation of what other past Presidents, including Obama did. But they need something to scream about or they become irrelevant, well, more irrelevant than they already are.

The only people who will get their lives disrupted by any sort of uproar are the Urban Liberal Fascist areas. I live out in the sticks in a formerly solid blue state that is transitioning to being a Red State, Minnesota. I am surrounded by Red and we don't even see a hint of the Liberal Fascist uproar like in Large Blue cities. Life for us hasn't changed one bit, nor will it really.
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Runamok View Post
The red "flyover country" is much more culturally cohesive than those that belong to the "blue "rainbow coalition". I've been from PA to GA to MT and many small towns in between and had a TON in common with everyone I met.
Very true. Conservatives have traditional values that transcend geography.

The only commonality of the "blue rainbow coalition" is that they hate conservatives.
Old 02-18-2017, 11:24 AM
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I like to think I'm as conservative as anybody else
You can't be serious.

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