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Old 03-06-2017, 02:09 PM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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I live in a State where the liberal sap suckers have the majority. But not my county. My county is a bastion of Republicans. Regardless...There has never been a case where someone broke into a house and was killed and the State prosecuted the defender of the house. No matter what. Furthermore...I do know of cases where the homeowner shot robbers outside their house and still were not prosecuted.

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Where do you live in Maryland that someone shot robbers outside of their house and didn't get prosecuted? I'd like to read about that one.
Old 03-07-2017, 12:05 AM
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Cynical Misanthrope

I live in a country without the right to bear arms, we do however have plenty of violence over here as your NRA is fond of telling everyone.

I have been involved in many fights and violent confrontations both as a young man growing up in the city and professionally as a bouncer and working for the police.

Of the dozens of incidents I have been involved with, only one was deadly force ever contemplated and a taser was used to finish that in the end. The young man tasered has turned his life around after a battle with mental health issues and drugs and is now a decent functioning member of society.

Your kill-every-threat mentality reeks of either a lack of life experience, cowardice or sociopathy.

You feel power because you own a gun, but feel no duty to act responsibly to others. It's a selfish and mean doctrine that will end up biting you in the *** mate.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:13 PM
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What's the point of talking about guns in a forum called: Non-Lethal Weapons & Self Defense.

There are SIX forums that cater to firearms, and even specific classes of firearms.
 
Old 03-07-2017, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apok View Post
Cynical Misanthrope

I live in a country without the right to bear arms, we do however have plenty of violence over here as your NRA is fond of telling everyone.

Your kill-every-threat mentality reeks of either a lack of life experience, cowardice or sociopathy.

You feel power because you own a gun, but feel no duty to act responsibly to others. It's a selfish and mean doctrine that will end up biting you in the *** mate.
Apok:

Wow! May I ask which of my posts makes you describe me the way you have?

The point of my post when I started this thread was to question why, when faced with harm, a person would not use lethal means as self-defense.

Rich
Old 03-07-2017, 07:00 PM
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Some people CAN be taught. Teens raiding your garden deserve a good thrashing, not death. That's why they invented thrashing. Unarmed strong-arm punks after your wallet in a parking lot respond well to tazers. Nasty mannered children who can't stay out of your garage learn much from pepper spray.

It really is good for your own soul to keep the body count low. Unless someone's death or bodily safety is in question, you don't get to kill them. But you do need to teach them a lesson.
No such thing as "Unarmed strong-arm punks after your wallet in a parking lot ". You will get shot in that scenario. I don't have enough pockets to carry a lot of different junk. And tazers do not work well with multiple targets. They are way too slow.
Old 03-07-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Apok View Post
Cynical Misanthrope

I live in a country without the right to bear arms, we do however have plenty of violence over here as your NRA is fond of telling everyone.

I have been involved in many fights and violent confrontations both as a young man growing up in the city and professionally as a bouncer and working for the police.

Of the dozens of incidents I have been involved with, only one was deadly force ever contemplated and a taser was used to finish that in the end. The young man tasered has turned his life around after a battle with mental health issues and drugs and is now a decent functioning member of society.

Your kill-every-threat mentality reeks of either a lack of life experience, cowardice or sociopathy.

You feel power because you own a gun, but feel no duty to act responsibly to others. It's a selfish and mean doctrine that will end up biting you in the *** mate.
Maybe you'd have less crime if you weren't too cowardly to use deadly force. I doubt that taser would have worked if it were two or three instead of one.

My responsibility towards others is not to rob them or cause them harm when they are obeying the law.
Old 03-07-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Preppin' View Post
Because if you use a weapon like a gun or a knife (this goes double in the case of the latter) you will go to court and even if you are acquitted you will likely go deep into debt and be bankrupt and homeless. Non-lethal weapons such as pepper spray and tasers can some some of the toughest people around.
Bull crap. You MIGHT go to court, not everyplace is the same, and some of the toughest people around will KILL you for spraying that crap on them, if not immediately, just give them a day or two.

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You can employ lethal force and be in the right, and still go to trial.

Only if the local courts are insanely liberal...

You can lose your house, your life savings and your wife.

You might lose those if you DON'T shoot the guy in your imaginary situation...

But when you are sitting there in jail, you can have the satisfaction that you were in the right to use lethal force.

Why would you be in jail? You were in the right, so no criminal issues, and civil cases don't go that way.

I would not trust the legal system to make the right decision. Avoid conflict whenever possible. Live to live your life the way you want it to be for another day.
Yes, by all means, try to avoid conflict. But if you can't avoid it, because some idiot has decided he WANTS conflict, and you are the one that will be getting conflicted with, you should meet that conflict with as much intensity as you can, and finish it as fast as you can.
Old 03-08-2017, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynical Misanthrope View Post
Apok:

Wow! May I ask which of my posts makes you describe me the way you have?

The point of my post when I started this thread was to question why, when faced with harm, a person would not use lethal means as self-defense.

Rich
That is not what you said at all. You said....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynical Misanthrope View Post
Why would a person choose to defend himself or herself (self-defense) with non-lethal means?. It would seem to me if I had a need to defend myself against harm, lethal means would be the most effective way.
.... and in subsequent posts have spouted cliches and examples of some people not being charged after shooting someone.

You show little understanding of law or any capacity to understand the ramifications of killing someone. The fact that you have to ask "why?" is a bit disturbing, but it's your life and you're in another country from me so just do your thing. Understand however that when you shoot a drunk guy in the face for punching you, that you have just killed some lady's son, perhaps a kid's Dad, someone's brother, someone's best mate.

Don't get me wrong you're entitled to defend yourself and if deadly force is necessary then blaze away son, but there will be VERY few times in your life, if ever, that that will be required.

I'll leave it up to you.
Old 03-08-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by OldCorps View Post
Maybe you'd have less crime if you weren't too cowardly to use deadly force. I doubt that taser would have worked if it were two or three instead of one.
The 16 year old was also covered with a glock and would've been shot dead if the taser was ineffective.

Don't mistake kindness for weakness.
Old 03-08-2017, 01:17 PM
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The 16 year old was also covered with a glock and would've been shot dead if the taser was ineffective.

Don't mistake kindness for weakness.
You had a gun? You said there were no rights to bear arms where you live. How is it you had a gun? How about the full details instead of trying to justify claims based on partial-truths?
Old 03-08-2017, 11:43 PM
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Law enforcement OldCorps.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynical Misanthrope View Post
Apok:

Wow! May I ask which of my posts makes you describe me the way you have?

The point of my post when I started this thread was to question why, when faced with harm, a person would not use lethal means as self-defense.

Rich
Pretty sure I've already said this pages back, but I'll reiterate: There are situations in which you can legally use force when not having your life threatened (usually in defense of property or low level assaults without harm). Non-lethal weapons are for these instances where you can for example remove or detain someone by force, but not legally use lethal force unless they decide to resist by trying to harm you.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:27 PM
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Law enforcement OldCorps.
So this kid is trying to rob you in front of a LEO? Now, your argument is starting to border on the BS side.
Old 03-10-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Apok View Post
Law enforcement OldCorps.
If you're saying that you're a COP, then you have way more advantages over civilians as most criminals are more likely to back down once you identified yourself as law enforcement.
Old 03-10-2017, 05:14 PM
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One does not employ force to kill, or even wound an attacker; but employ the minimal force necessary to stop the attack, given the totality of the circumstances. The use of deadly physical force is the final step of the defense or oneself or another's well being, and should only be utilized after exhausting every other means available.

Okay. That was the law hornbook answer. The reality is that the law views any use of any physical force in imperfect hindsight, even when the moment seems to require the necessity.

It is a **** sandwich. Chance being carried by six, or chance being judged by twelve with the good possibility of going bankrupt in the process. As such, its still a better idea of not leaving the attacker as a witness to testify against you in court.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:53 PM
Cynical Misanthrope Cynical Misanthrope is offline
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I'll leave it up to you.
Thank you. Glad you will let me make my own decisions.

Rich
Old 03-11-2017, 07:46 AM
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So this kid is trying to rob you in front of a LEO? Now, your argument is starting to border on the BS side.
No.... I work in law enforcement.
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