New File Added: EMP Effects Notebook

[Grevlin]

Originally Posted by isopsycho

Of the test runs that I've done with that the E1 and E2 pulses don't carry very far - 200-300 KM from GZ, after that the coupling needs assistance like antennas to get any real current loads on systems. Now the scary thing is the E3 pulse that comes last, its wave lengths are well matched and will couple with every power line, power transfer, and transformer in the majority of the US. This is where you get your big damage. The entire US without power for at least several weeks if everything goes right (and it won't, just look at Katrina planning/reaction capability).

My instinct tells me that may be a bit of a best-case scenario, but even several weeks without power would rip us apart.

Iso,

As the member quickly becoming the EMP expert, (IMO) how do you feel about the chances of an EMP attack, and long term effects of one?

and

Are you prepping for one, or plan to?

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

Iso,

As the member quickly becoming the EMP expert, (IMO) how do you feel about the chances of an EMP attack, and long term effects of one?

and

Are you prepping for one, or plan to?

I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'll let you know if I pass my thesis defense before claiming that title Really though, the Nuclear Engineering program here at the Air Force Institute of Technology is quiet good, its 75% weapon based and only 25% reactors, so I'm only Holiday Inn Express dangerous in doing reactor stuff

My estimate of an EMP attack on the US: its a difficult plan to execute without a solid base in ICBM and two stage nuclear weapon technology (plutonium implosion and 2nd stage uranium boosting). That leaves only a couple nations capable of delivering this threat: China, former USSR and maybe North Korea and Iran if you give them some benefits of the doubt (I doubt their ICBM capability so they would have to go clandestine container launch). If that happens and they manage to get a single EMP effective weapon to work as planned: VERY dangerous outcome. Just look at the previous power outage caused by the solar spike back in 1993-4 in Canada and the power grid failure in the US a few years back. It caused major problems and we had communications and reserve power systems. In an EMP you won't have those, no general comms, no power sources without repair parts. Given how fast people can get panicked and start rioting its a situation I can't stop wondering about.
My preparing mind set is to prepare for all the eventualities that lead to complete social breakdown. How we get there is the contingency details I work through. For EMP, I'm basically set with reserve two-way radios, emergency channel receivers, back up power systems (solar, gas and chemical) and a complete computer system to access my enormous library of information.

[isopsycho]

OK, I found some EMP pictures from the internet. The pics show what a max peak weapon yield would look like in region coverage. The volts per meter (the actual electric field coupling with what ever is out there) is messed up, the values are using old air chemistry data showing a saturation limit of 50,000 v/m, not likely (most likely using the old 1 MT bomb estimates used to brief congress). The normal range for a 450KT yield weapon would be about 5000V/m, a 100 KT would be about 1200 V/m. You can scale it mentally using a 1/r squared tapering.

The weird contour lines depicts the 'lensing effect of the curved magnetic field versus the burst point.

[JimRobert]

Can one ground a Faraday cage kept indoors to something internal, e.g. I have conduit with my electrical wiring. What about wall outlets? Anyway to use them?

[JimRobert]

Great... so all the fruitcakes on the east and west coasts, according to your map, and who are the main cause of our military weakness, seem to get off with the least amount of impact. :-\

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by JimRobert

Can one ground a Faraday cage kept indoors to something internal, e.g. I have conduit with my electrical wiring. What about wall outlets? Anyway to use them?

Yes, the shorter the path the better though. Oh, and the map shows 50% of the Peak EMP pulse, the peak is quite abit considering it pulses at about a few nano seconds So no one is really safe...

[JimRobert]

.... but doesn't have the science background, unfortunately! ("get it" in that I understand there is a real threat). First, isopsycho, I very much appreciate all your input (in fact, I just went out and sanded down the weld line, as best as possible, on my makeshift Faraday cage (steel garbage can). Hopefully, all this preparation will never be used, but better prepared than not, particularly with the (sorry for the political comment here) incompetent administration running the country.

Question for you: Now that I've got my little Faraday/garbage can ready (I took off the metal handles, which presumably could also act like an antenna?), the question is of grounding. I have a small APC UPS in my house for my computer. Could I simply run a line to that? I.e., as this has the three prong plug for the wall, would that be sufficient grounding?

You are to be commended for your help and comments. America was founded by people who believed in self-reliance and not being dependent. You fit well into that tradition. Thank you!!

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by JimRobert

.... but doesn't have the science background, unfortunately! ("get it" in that I understand there is a real threat). First, isopsycho, I very much appreciate all your input (in fact, I just went out and sanded down the weld line, as best as possible, on my makeshift Faraday cage (steel garbage can). Hopefully, all this preparation will never be used, but better prepared than not, particularly with the (sorry for the political comment here) incompetent administration running the country.

Question for you: Now that I've got my little Faraday/garbage can ready (I took off the metal handles, which presumably could also act like an antenna?), the question is of grounding. I have a small APC UPS in my house for my computer. Could I simply run a line to that? I.e., as this has the three prong plug for the wall, would that be sufficient grounding?

You are to be commended for your help and comments. America was founded by people who believed in self-reliance and not being dependent. You fit well into that tradition. Thank you!!

Let me do some math on the grounding bit. I'm thinking the distance may be too much using the house ground line. Also, I need to go find the conductivity of a metal trash can, that will tell me allot about how the pulse will couple with it frequency wise (I have all this available here at the University )).

If you can give me the brand name or if it has the metal composition rating (something like 20% Zinc, 60% Aluminum and 20% Tin) that would help.

What I want to do is find the pulse coupling factor and skin depth of the EMP wave incident on the can and at the weld and corner points. Falls within my research so the tax payers shouldn't mind too much

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by JimRobert

Great... so all the fruitcakes on the east and west coasts, according to your map, and who are the main cause of our military weakness, seem to get off with the least amount of impact. :-\

Oh, I just remembered! That is just ONE emp/nuke, the enemy would use 2-3 to get good coverage (I never under estimate them). So the east and west would be just as hard hit.

[JimRobert]

Thank you. I'll call them in the morning. Nothing indicated on the can, other than it's a 31 gal galvanized can from Behrens Mfr, in Winona, MN. I'll give them a shout in the morning and report back. Meanwhile, having info like this for those of us not gifted in the sciences like you will be a great help, which I will pass on to others. I was also trying to find an article I saved about how Iranian scientists are much further along than thought with miniaturization of warheads, but I can't find it. If I do, I'll send you the link.

Once again, thanks, and keep up the great work!

Kind regards, Jim

[JimRobert]

Isopsycho,

Here is that article on Iran and the advanced nuke work they are doing:
http://www.newsmaxworld.com/global_t...06/282683.html. I think you will find this of much interest. Your thoughts?

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by JimRobert

Isopsycho,

Here is that article on Iran and the advanced nuke work they are doing:
http://www.newsmaxworld.com/global_t...06/282683.html. I think you will find this of much interest. Your thoughts?

If this is true (the two point initiation) then some advanced weapon design either got leaked or the Iranians have been doing their home work. Given it took the US MANY tests to get it right, I think Iran acquired the technology and are testing their latest model based on the information.

Now, given all the recent nuclear tech declassified by DOE (not released but now able to talk/admit we have) two point detonation is complex geometry designed to focus the explosive waves much more efficiently (and safely) than a timing system used to blow several detonators. This ensure a better compression factor for the weapon system and achieves super-critical factor.

Would also suggest that Iran may have secondary thermal nuclear technology where the secondary system 'burns' more uranium to produce a larger yield (400kt to about 3-30 Mt).

Its not a good thing they have this capability.

My guess from all the loose nukes from the former soviet block are being used as test/study material on workable designs. Sense testing (even below ground) is detectable. Making their own fissile material makes it difficult to trace by current methods, so retribution would be a guessing game I'm not any administration would like to play.

Will be nice to finally graduate and get back into the pulse of things again. My last assignment kept my well informed and educated and my next assignment looks promising. In between I've pretty much fell out of touch besides required reading for some classes a couple of quarters ago...Don't tell my professors this...

[Pinhead]

At the elevations required to administer an EMP attack, would the nuclear fallout still be a problem? Or would the atmosphere be able to spread it out thoroughly enough? Are us Kansans screwed??

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by Pinhead

At the elevations required to administer an EMP attack, would the nuclear fallout still be a problem? Or would the atmosphere be able to spread it out thoroughly enough? Are us Kansans screwed??

There will still be fallout but not in the same sense as a surface or near surface burst. The weapon itself will be completely ionized along with the fissile material which will be left in low earth orbit or the upper atmosphere. The atmosphere (troposphere if I remember my class stuff) at that altitude (20-40 KM is the magic zone for an EMP attack, anything above this zone will produce an EMP if its detonated along the 45th parallel - earth magnetic field plays a big part in the EMP development) debris moves around the earth in about 3-4 days so the material will be almost evenly spread (mix of radioactive material, but allot of tritium - see effects from the few atmospheric tests done). So as long as its not too many nukes fallout is not a concern, however, if it gets crazy and someone or allot of someones decide everyone should be EMP attacked then there will be an increase in GLOBAL radioactive levels, especially tritium, strontium, cesium and some other element I can't remember of the top of my head.

Anything more than 6 nukes in atmosphere will cause some problems, small at first but gradually worse as the radioactive material settles out of the atmosphere and into our food and water supplies.

If the attack is outside our atmosphere (above the troposphere) then the earth will trap the radiation in the Van-Allen belts where some of our satellites pass through (see my upload of effects of radiation on electronics for that headache). Also the radiation will propagate in the magnetosphere of the earth, moving back and forth from pole to pole and circumnavigate the earth while propagating, effecting any satellites that it passes through. Fallout on the earth zero in this case though.

[JimRobert]

BTW, Iso, I checked with the garbage can company, and so far, all they have told me is that it is of "pre-galvanized sheet steel." I asked for detailed composition, but this sure seems like a good expedient way to have a "poor man's" Faraday cage, hopefully! I was told they would have specific details emailed to me. Also, re. the above, I have read in various sources that the decay rate of fallout would mean that after a week or so, the danger from radioactivity would be negligible. Your note above about problems "gradually worsening" presumably just means from contamination from the "residue" of the nuclear fallout, not from radiation itself, correct? In other words, we would have to deal with contamination, but not direct radiation (granting that the contamination is, of course, the result of a nuke)

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by JimRobert

BTW, Iso, I checked with the garbage can company, and so far, all they have told me is that it is of "pre-galvanized sheet steel." I asked for detailed composition, but this sure seems like a good expedient way to have a "poor man's" Faraday cage, hopefully! I was told they would have specific details emailed to me. Also, re. the above, I have read in various sources that the decay rate of fallout would mean that after a week or so, the danger from radioactivity would be negligible. Your note above about problems "gradually worsening" presumably just means from contamination from the "residue" of the nuclear fallout, not from radiation itself, correct? In other words, we would have to deal with contamination, but not direct radiation (granting that the contamination is, of course, the result of a nuke)

For the radiation, yes. Clarification on gradually worsening: I meant the radioactive particles would eventually come down. But yes, the 7 times half life (what ever the 1/2 life is, say 8 days for Iodine 131, would mean after about 56 days its virtually harmless) rule of thumb can be used on the fallout in the atmosphere, so most of it will be radioactively neutral by the time it settles. Except for the long life ones.

Galvanized steel will work, I'll do the calculation and see just how thick it should be. I'm assuming the can is 1/8 inch thick?

[JimRobert]

Thank you so much. I am told it is 32 gauge; not sure how that converts to inches, but the contact at the mfr is in tomorrow, and I will call then to get further details. This is **so** helpful what you are doing! Hopefully this is all for naught, like most other insurance, but if in fact there is some warning before an EMP attack, and suddenly folks are scrambling at the last minute, wouldn't it be cool that someone like you did the homework in the background, and was able to provide a "poor man's" means of protection for the populace!

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by JimRobert

Thank you so much. I am told it is 32 gauge; not sure how that converts to inches, but the contact at the mfr is in tomorrow, and I will call then to get further details. This is **so** helpful what you are doing! Hopefully this is all for naught, like most other insurance, but if in fact there is some warning before an EMP attack, and suddenly folks are scrambling at the last minute, wouldn't it be cool that someone like you did the homework in the background, and was able to provide a "poor man's" means of protection for the populace!

32 gauge = .0097 inch or 0.24638 Millimeter

http://www.corrugated-metals.com/gaugeindecimals.html

[Woodchuck]

Isopsycho:

Over a number of threads there has been some contention about the ground wire on the Faraday cage acting as an antenna in itself if it is more than a foot or two in length. Therefore some have suggested that it may be better not having a ground wire at all. What are your thoughts on this?

Woodchuck

[isopsycho]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

Isopsycho:

Over a number of threads there has been some contention about the ground wire on the Faraday cage acting as an antenna in itself if it is more than a foot or two in length. Therefore some have suggested that it may be better not having a ground wire at all. What are your thoughts on this?

Woodchuck

if the antenna is grounded the wave couples and goes to ground, exactly where you want it. If you don't have it grounded the Faraday cage will re-transmit (albeit strangely considering the geometry of the can, so don't even try to math model it, I've tried to little success) into the cage. Lower power and will cut out allot of the lower frequencies but the high power ones (the ones that do the most damage to sensitive electronics) will re-transmit and couple with anything inside the cage.

So do ground it, its the same concept as lightning.