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17K views 30 replies 13 participants last post by  CyprusTM 
#1 ·
I just bought some om 10 gas masks from cheaper than dirt does anyone know if these would acctually protect me from an NBC threat or if these are not usefull in that type of situation
 
#2 ·
NATO Masks ONLY!

There are some problems with the OM-10 Gas Mask.


As you can tell from the picture the filters are NOT 40mm Nato. That means that you have to acquire filters that are made for that specific mask. When TEOTWAWKI occurs, you aren't going to be able to just log-onto the internet and order a pair of filters.

If the filters are still sealed, then they could be of use. However, they must be manufactured within the past 10-15 years, or else they will have expired, even if still sealed.

So if you want my honest opinion about that mask, its junk for WTSHTF.

If you want to purchase a functional mask, but don't want to spend 200 dollars. Then you should go on Ebay and buy a gas mask that accepts 40mm NATO threads (I recommend the Israeli M15). Remember only countries that were part of NATO or 'the west' or are heavily funded by the west (Israel); use NATO 40mm threads.

Once you get a mask that accepts 40mm threads, you are going to want to buy NEW filters. One reliable site is: http://approvedgasmasks.com. There are a variety of 40mm threads ranging in price. You'll probably end up paying more money on the filter than on the gas mask. Remember the filter is the most important part of the gas mask. Not that the mask itself isn't important, but without a good filter...you're dead.
 
#3 ·
Something to consider with the OM10 mask. IIRC, it takes about 3 minutes to swap the filters (as opposed to seconds for something like the M15 with the nato filter). Not sure how many you have, but make sure you have at least one extra so when you need to swap the filters, you have a mask to wear while you're changing the filters in the other. (e.g. if you have 4 people, you need 5 masks).
 
#6 ·
I've got an M10 and an M15 Israeli. I like them both, but for SHTF the M15 is going with me. The M10 I bought mainly for giggles/last resort. I'm having problems finding effective filters that are cost effective. I'm using late 80's manufactured 40mm surplus filters now.
 
#7 ·
OM-10 filters are no longer produced, they're East German, based off the M17, you can't find any filters newer than 80's stock, and M17 filters are slightly different, just enough so that they don't work properly in the OM-10.

Your best bet is an M17 for a last resort mask, the OM-10 is a riot agent mask, in the least the M17 has newer filters and will defeat anything but oil based agents or in a radioactive environment, but be sure you purchase the A2 which is the newest variant of the M17, but if you want the best you need an M40.
 
#8 ·
This is really unbelieveable. Have any of you ever used a gas mask for more than 10 minutes? I've spent days working in them and i can tell you, you need to understand what you are talking about. That mask would work fine for nearly everything you will come into contact with. The only time you would need something like the M15 style of mask is if you were working with the chemical weapons right at your finger tips.

That mask will stop everything from Mustard gas to the G and V nerve agents. As far as nuclear, it is perfect. No charged particles will get through the filters.

Here is something you need to understand. Having a mask is great but what the hell are you going to do with it on? Have you ever tried running with a gas mask on? Or lifting something heavy with a mask on? A mask like the M15 style is meant for people who are first responders to a chemical attack where the liquid chemical is just laying around. I know, I used to do exactly that. Having a gas mask for a chemical or biological attack also needs to be coupled with being able to wear the mask and perform your functions in it. Nearly half my class in school failed because they got clostrophobic the M15 style mask. That bodes really ill when you need a mask for protection and opted for overkill just for the sake of a heavy duty mask.

In my professional opinion, as long as you can get filters for that mask it will do everything you need it to do. Make sure you understand the rating system for the filters as they make many different densities for different applications. The M17 style mask is a solid mask that will offer protection from anything a SURVIVOR could run into.
 
#9 ·
Umm medina, when a chemical weapon is released, it is at your finger tips.

The OM-10 will not stop VX or Mustard, thr OM-10's filters are designed to resist CS and like agents.

Yes charged particles will get through it, the filters aren't designed for a N/R environment, the weave isn't small enough to stop the particles.

You have never been in anything chemical related. Everything I wrote is out of the manual.

And the M17 right in it's hadbook states it can NOT be used against agents with an oil base or in a radiological environment.

FYI: The US military doesn't use the M15, we use the M40.
 
#10 ·
I was an EOD technician in the USAF for 8 years. I've seen, destroyed, and worked with nearly every chemical weapon in the US arsenal. I've used every gas mask and chemical suit issued by the armed forces and spent many days cooped up in them testing weapons for problems. I've also worked extensively with 5 different nuclear platforms and all the safety equipment needed to work with them.

I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience about these things.

I've been out of the service for 17 years so there may have been some basic changes to things but I wonder how many people on this post can say they have worked in a beudal rubber on a real live chemical weapon. I know what this equipment is capable of and the myths that surround it. Everybody is so damn concerned about what type of mask to get instead of understanding the threat posed and getting a level of protection that will allow them to function like a human being after a disaster. Just being able to breath or "survive" isn't the name of the game. It's being able to survive and then THRIVE after the event. Ever tried eating in an environment where chemical or biological weapons have been used? How about drinking?
 
#11 ·
While your service is admirable and greatly appreciated, 17 years is a LONGGG time to be out of the loop.

I myself have experience in these fields, I was First Responder qualified to respond to NCBR accidents and disasters, and I know the OM-10 DOES NOT work against chemicals other than CS and OC, it was designed by the Czech to use in riot control. I also know the M17 is NOT to be used in an environment where a chemical or biological agent has an oil base, and the M17 is completely useless in a radiological environment.

If I am also not mistake, the MCU-2/P replaced the Mark V and M17 masks in 1983, (of course as with any item it takes years to filter to every unit) but to me it seems more likely you would have used the MCU-2/P or MCU-2A/P rather than the M17(A1/A2).


Not only that, but I would expect someone who has used and trained with the mask to know how to spell "butyl".

I am sorry, but there are TOO many phony's and fake's on the internet, and someone who is giving FALSE info is not one to be trusted. I know as a FACT the OM-10 is not an NBCR mask, it's merely a riot control agent mask, it wouldn't stop any weapons grade chemical or biological weapon, least of all radiological particles, and the M17 is a design well known for being flawed, and only being designed for Chemical and Biological environment. I can speak with knowledge as of 2009, from both first hand experience and DHS and Joint Service Manuals. In addition ALL personnel (military, FD, PD, SAR, ect... must take ICS classes on terror attacks and natural disasters as of 2004 per HSPD-4). Aside from that when did you use an M15, we don't issue and never have issued M15's, and we have never issued or used OM-10's.

I really am sorry friend, a man's word on the internet isn't worth much, because for all I know you just a surplus store owner, and because people on here have been sharing accurate and up-to-date info we've been hurting your sales of left over, second hand surplus crap.

FYI guys, the only mask you can truly trust is anything modern. M40 and like masks, anything else is flawed, obsolete, or if it's bought surplus was probably flawed or DEMILLED from the beginning, and most foreign made masks purchased as surplus are marked for "Foreign Sales" which are usually the faulty or used masks, we do it when we send gear oversea's.


You guys want readily available info? Either find recently issued manuals or go here http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/defective-masks.htm
 
#14 ·
I'm not asking people to buy a mask. I don't have a store, or offer anything for sale. I never will. Every mask has a shelf life, maintenance schedule, and must be maintained in a serviceable condition to protect against anything. Even the most basic masks from 3M can provide a very basic level of protection. You can make a mask protect against anything if you understand what you are trying to protecting against. It's that simple.

But if you have really had training then you should know that in the world of chemical weapons you will never be wearing a mask when the explosion happens. For the most part, the only way anyone will ever know is when things start dying under very weird circumstances.

The only thing I try to tell people is to look at a dual filter design. It has a much better capacity for air and will offer the same protection against the treats. It's as much about protection as about being able to actually do something in the mask.

In your words what is a radioactive environment?
 
#15 ·
I can agree if you have the proper and necessary gear you can but the spectrum is very wide and the OM-10 (i feel retarded bring this up yet again) doesn't have filters for NBC.

I know, that or you've got chem testers going off like crazy, which won't be put out unless chemicals are suspected in the area.

Radioactive particles, the M17 was never intended for that use.
 
#18 ·
Any NBC equipment, especially masks, need frequent preventive maintenance. In addition to non-training filters and clothing, boots & gloves to protect the rest of your body, you'll need detection equipment and as much intel as you can get to make sure you aren't heading into a hotter zone. You'll eventually need to decon and that takes a clean area and other people to do that properly. Even if you have all the proper gear, your protection is temporary and you need more specialized gear if you encounter heavy contamination like EOD has to deal with.

As a civilian, I have a lot fewer options than the military does.

If I'm in the immediate area of an NBC attack, I can put a wet T-shirt over my mouth and nose and try to sprint out of the hazard area. If I'm downwind, I would run perpendicular to the wind direction.

If I am home, I can turn off the A/C & heat, shelter in place in an interior bathroom using plastic sheets and duct tape and listen to the radio for the all clear. Having a mask and detector kit or paper gives me a chance to get out if the agent is persistent. I would go for a modern MSA/NIOSH approved mask over an obsolete military one. Household bleach and water is my decon plan.

If I am nuked, my best bet is an underground shelter for a couple weeks. Hope I get a couple days of notice to start digging up my back yard. Having a mask might keep me from inhaling as many alpha particles. If I wanted to raise my capability a little more, I would spring for a NukAlert or some kind of detection gear.
 
#19 ·
Excellent post!! The reality is just as you put it. I hope this community will understand the level of misinformation put forth. It's really nobody's fault here but the information system is designed that way. Every technical manual in the military has pages that are classified so the civilian sector will never get the "whole" story. We had TM's that had 3 different classifications and depending on the situiation depended on the pages of the TM anyone could access.

I had a CNWDI security clearance and I can tell you that I wasn't shown, told, or educated on very specific aspects of nuclear weapon design for a purpose. I could take apart any weapon ever built and render it safe(I have done that) but they made sure that weights and material makeup wasn't a part of the program. For good reason, too much information and need to know. The very same thing happens in the chemical and biological arena.

I would love a top line mask for my family should the need arise but I can tell you that a bra mask and some knowledge of the situation will help a great deal. You can only get better from there.

Any mask will offer some protection and the ability to evacuate the area to safety. After all that is the name of the game. :thumb:
 
#20 ·
patcash very aggressive and informative, in the debate on masks, I lost sight of the true objective, thinking in the process of someone trying to respond rather than survive, I agree with Medina, superb post.

You about hit every nail on the head, as if reading from the FEMA Guide itself. :D:

Medina, lets just agree that based on what we both know, and our experience (yours outweighing mine) and you being more from the survival standpoint in our discussion had the proper idea from the start, I was busy thinking from a different standpoint, thinking of running operations in a contaminated area, which isn't the case here, but to egress the area and survive to fight another day.
 
#24 ·
I recently decided to buy gas masks for my significant other and myself. I settled on the Israeli M-15 and I bought some spare filters. I live in an urban/ghetto area so my need for them was based on "closer to home" incidents that involved tear gas and thick smoke from burning tires, vehicles and buildings. I may try to get a smaller mask to adapt so that my German Shepherd is protected. In the future I hope to spend some cash to get the best 40 mm filters that protect from NBC. This is where I got the masks. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PACK-Isr...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 
#25 ·
Beware, you get what you pay for when it comes to gas masks. The best filter on the planet will do you no good if the mask is junk.

I'm sorry, but the CBRN environment is no place for pets. There is simply no effective means to put masks on pets... unless you're going to shave their necks and duct tape the seal to their skin, you'll never get the mask to seal with their fur in the way. You would have to set up a crate or some other container that you could seal off and use a PAPR system with. If the environment is so lethal that you need full CBRN gear... I'm sorry, but they simply aren't going to survive with a gas mask that won't seal properly. Traversing that environment and properly decontaminating yourself is dangerous enough. Trying to do so with a pet in tow, then trying to decon the pet and yourself is nothing short of foolhardy.

To protect a pet, you would need something like this: http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/pet-shield.htm
 
#26 · (Edited)
#27 ·
Don't fall into the trap of believing that a photo of an animal in a mask means the animal survived an actual encounter with a chemical agent. Most of those photos were taken *before* combat, not after. I remember a photo of some British soldiers who were sporting goggles and cotton masks wet down with seltzer water... they all died in the first gas attack they encountered. Yet looking at the photo, you'd swear that was all they needed.

While you can find lots of photos, there's very little in the way of actual study and research on whether animal masks were effective in WWI. Claims of success are mostly anecdotal and likely boiled down to pure "luck" in that the concentration was likely low enough to allow the animal to survive with imperfect protection.

I'm assuming you don't have a problem with facial hair, but just be aware that vaseline + beard + gas mask only works to a very limited extent and for small areas. Someone with a Grizzly Adams beard is not going to get the mask to seal, no matter how much vaseline they use. There is also the problem of movement... sitting perfectly still you might be able to get a seal, but once you start moving, the chances of compromising the seal go up considerably.

There's also the issue of breathing resistance. If you've ever tried a mask and filter combination, you probably know it's a little harder to breathe through. A pet may not tolerate that resistance once they start panting. The breathing resistance of a filter is not conducive to those short frequent breaths. Short, shallow breaths in a mask also tend to cause CO2 levels to build up faster. At the very least they would have to be trained to tolerate the mask.

Your pet's best chance at surviving an encounter with a chemical agent is to be in their crate, inside something like that "Pet Shield".
 
#28 ·
I received the om-10 gas masks and they look brand new. Tried one on and it seems to seal tight around my face/head. It feels claustrophobic but I tend to suffer from claustrophobia. Did not put a filter on it. I may try wearing it around the house to get used to it. If a neighbor knocks on the door, he/she will get a big surprise! hahaha!
 
#29 ·
Did you get an M-10 or the Israeli M-15? The M-10s are typically sold with "riot" filters which shouldn't be used for anything other than tear gas. M-15s will come with 40mm threaded filters. Honestly neither one should be used for an actual CBRN emergency, but I know people will do so anyway. So, if the filters are old they may have asbestos or chromium in them, both of which are toxic. If the filter medium starts to break down it can be inhaled. Any filter manufactured before 1970 probably has asbestos in it. If the filter says "C2" on it, it probably contains chromium and shouldn't be used, even for costume parties.

Also "seems to seal" isn't good enough. Either it seals or it doesn't. Cover the inlets and breathe in... if the mask seals it should be drawn closer to your face like a suction cup. If it doesn't, or if you feel air leaking, it's not sealing.
 
#30 ·
It is an M-15 Israeli gas mask. It seals because I covered the outlets, breathed in, and the mask drew in closer around my face. The date on the filters is 1994. Thanks for all the information you give. Now I will set about getting some newer and better filters. I would like to have these available by June of '18, in case the Antifa causes more trouble than anybody expects.
 
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