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Source for IV Fluids and Kits

134K views 59 replies 39 participants last post by  Thuderfoot 
#1 ·
What is a good source to purchase IV fluids and infusion kits for a trauma kit?

Obviously, minimum expense and maximum shelf life would be nice. :thumb:
 
#3 ·
Try http://www.drsfostersmith.com/. they are a veterinary supplier, and they sell different types of IV electrolyte fluids, IV systems, needles and syringes. I don't think that you need a license to order from them, but don't take my word for it because I've never ordered that kind of stuff from them.

Also, since I don't know anything about human medicine, I'm not sure what types of solutions you'd want to buy.

solutions

drip kit

potassium chloride concentrate
 
#4 ·
PLEASE have training before you decide to do this. From your profile, I didn't see anything but you may have not put it there. It is as easy or easier to kill someone with IV fluids as it is to do them good. Also from your profile, if we were closer, we would probably be good friends, lots in common. Well, I do still have all my hair:D:
 
#8 ·
I'm not going to dispute the first responder training, comment. But I WILL say there is more to it than just "stick & run fluids". The initial venipuncture isn't the most difficult thing in the world, but infusing anything other than "Normal Saline", could be dangerous or life threatening.

I try to explain to anyone without medical training; All fluids aren't the same. You wouldn't put baby oil, olive oil, or peanut oil in your vehicle. There are different oils for different situations. Using the wrong one for the wrong job could be disastrous.

And for GOD'S SAKE..... NEVER mix your own IV fluids.
 
#36 ·
I know this is an old thread, but JEEBUS!!! POTASSIUM?!??! It scares me to think this is available OTC/Vet Supply!
That being said, without starting a long conversation with my Medical Control, I'd really like to have a source for start kits and NS. I'd just get it at work, but that's stealin', and there's enough stealin goin on in this country.
 
#13 ·
I agree with dirtyape, don't be afraid of IVs. They're not complicated at all and the "badge guards" do indeed want to protect their skills. Even IV drug users are competent enough to find a vein and use it.

That said, I'm surprised that people are so well stocked that they would move onto this type of prepping. I'm so far behind on food, that I'll be happy to get antibiotics in the next 6 months, let alone IV fluids!

My 2 cents are to use oral electrolyte solutions (e.g. http://pedialyte.com/), because it solves the situations we'll encounter more easily than IV fluid would. Sure if you get shot or lose a lot of blood, IV fluids would be invaluable, but chances are we'll need these fluids for simple diarrhea before trauma.
 
#15 ·
I agree with dirtyape, don't be afraid of IVs. They're not complicated at all and the "badge guards" do indeed want to protect their skills. Even IV drug users are competent enough to find a vein and use it.

finding the vein and poking the needle into it is not the hard part of using I.V. fluids. it is knowing which type of fluid to use and under what circumstances. there are 9 different types of I.V. fluids that i know of, all used for different reasons


There are several different types of fluids used for IV therapy. Depending on their specific type and makeup, IV fluids can cause the shift and redistribution of body water between the intracellular and extracellular compartments. Therefore, it is important for anyone who plans to use them to have a basic understanding of the different IV fluids and to choose the fluid most appropriate to the patient’s needs. Administering an inappropriate IV fluid can result in undesirable complications, as well as a less than optimal patient outcome.


not mention that all the ones that i have seen have a very short shelf life any ways. OP, if your daughter is a nurse, she should be able to find a good place to pick them up through people she works with. where does she work, and where do they buy their stuff from?
 
#19 ·
My $0.02

I have been in Emergency Medicine for 19 years. I would highly suggest one knows what they are doing before using these products, with that being said, allied health professional in EMS and Military type medics are highly skilled individuals - talented folks.

I too only stock Normal Saline. In a true survival situation, Isotonic versus Hypo/Hyper tonic means little, filling the vascular space to maintain diastolic pressure for the heart means every thing. If one did have access to a trauma facility at some point- they could use that line 18ga or larger (preferred) to run blood in a quicker fashion. Keeping in mind that if there is no access to a higher level of care - no crystalloid fluid carries oxygen and does nothing to prolong the onset of Hypoxemia . Stock up on a good supply of basic trauma stores, and know your basic care, that will be the life saver.

I would stay away from animal or cattle grade fluids, if you are going to stock these items here is a good place to look, no RX required for fluids and set ups etc....

http://dealmed.com
 
#24 ·
Indeed...

Cozaar is widely prescribed...What has to be understood here is that folks will be out of their regular meds, meds for hypertension, diabetes, thyroid disorder, cardiac issues, psych problems the list is endless. These folks obviously will have rebound medical emergencies (many to extremis) after being medically controlled - some for several decades.

It is a fact that "tossing" IV fluids in -in the face of an underlying diagnosis that is abruptly gone untreated can be fatal.

Throw a liter or two into a person that has cardiomyopathy, CHF, renal insufficiency, hepatic issues and you will kill them.

These are rather mundane problems day to day, but, add a disruption in access to medications and shazam, you have problems. These folks maybe your close relatives and you may never know that history.

Generally the systemic systems will return to there prior baseline with supportive care, that is when knowing a tick about basic care comes in handy. Take a Red Cross or AHA first aid course - a little education goes a long way.

Just my opinion, but, for anyone not medically trained - the heart saver first aid course offered by the AHA is a good option.

Thanks for reading, usually I am not this "windy" :D:
 
#37 ·
It is a fact that "tossing" IV fluids in -in the face of an underlying diagnosis that is abruptly gone untreated can be fatal.

Throw a liter or two into a person that has cardiomyopathy, CHF, renal insufficiency, hepatic issues and you will kill them.
Went on an unresponsive call. Pt was unresponsive. Nursing home (nursing??) said they thought she was dehydrated, so they gave her 3 liters of NS with D5W. I took a look at patient medical history...CHF. WTF?!?!?!

(I know most here are medical folks, but CHF + fluid overload is ugly and stupid.)
Oh, the 90 yr old lady weighed (last known) 96 lbs.
 
#26 ·
Your best bet would be to plan preventatively with oral glucose supplements in the field. Of course, I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know.

If you were having a severe adrenal crisis, you probably received a bag of fluids mixed in the pharmacy with an amp or two of D-50%, not just common D5W or D10.



Maintainer of the new groups "Discount Survival Gear Hunters" & "Dehydrators Anonymous".
 
#27 ·
I like to keep NAR needle less IV lock kits, and sodium chloride solution around for my step dad when he gets sick (he loses too much weight), hanging a bag is cheaper and easier than a trip to the ER. I might not be trained formally for it, but I have a BA in human bio so I've done it on cadavers. :)
 
#28 ·
"BADGE GUARD"

Yep, you got me. That's why I regularly post on here with explicit instructions and cautions on all things medical.

http://http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?p=2994453#post2994453
http://http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?p=2908098#post2908098
http://http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?p=2628999#post2628999


It's called a conscience. I have one, most people do, except psychopaths and certain internet posters. I find it a dereliction of my duty to allow uninformed and ignorant comments to go unaddressed in forums where the BS usually surfaces early and the truth is shouted down by the most ignorant of heathens.

These forums are loaded with good intentions and requests for information by under-informed people asking questions that will dispel myths and provide information that could be life-saving. Yet, the accused "Badge Guards" here will caution posters that certain medical procedures carry risks that might outweigh the benefits.

The "Badge Guards" have usually proven their training or expertise and aren't afraid to comment on things. Those accusing medical-personnel-with-a-conscience of "guarding their badge" are usually the most ignorant and grossly misinformed of the lot. I'm talking ignorance on a level not seen in everyday conversation, but rooted in a deeply held sense of childish insecurity, temerity and a profound mental inferiority that rivals FEMA.

Why is it so hard for them then to understand that there are things that they might not know, they don't even know ? Ask any medical professional, or "badge guard" about the relative ease and simplicity of their chosen profession. There really is no need for years of training and internship, practice on live patients or hundreds of yearly hours of continuing education. Not really, when anybody with a keyboard can simplify and deride your skills to equal that of a relatively untrained person.

My suggestion, the next time these people need to go for medical care is to "wing it". You don't need to go to a doctor or call a paramedic. If you do, I'm sure your opinion will be of great comfort to a doctor or paramedic that feels he needs years of training and experience to perform his job. Simply tell him "it's no big deal" and "it's not as complicated as you think". Then proceed to tell the doctor or paramedic how to do his job better. I'm sure this will benefit YOU, as the ultimate recipient of the care in question.
 
#32 ·
iv fluids

its not about badge guarding or being so simple We grunts can do it, I have done thousands of I.V.'s but the Rn's and civilian medics are right, its not something to take too lightly and training is required, what they failed to mention is stuff can go wrong, for extreem example, a GSW( gun shot wound)
in a field setting its hard to tell how much damage is internal, are fluids a good or a bad idea?! Dehydration used to be; yeah stick'em till we had kids die from OVER hydration or flushed electrolites....Infiltrate a vein and there could be complications. However even a Doctor can kill a PT.
So that said, I.V. sets are a powerful tool in your tool box, just be sure to use them for the right job, I say get edumacated on the how and the why, understand when to do saline or ringer and how fast and how much.
 
#43 ·
I do a lot of this (IVs, fluid management, blood products, etc.). All day. Every day. In complex circumstances. It's not hard but it's not neccessarily easy either. If you think your first attempt at starting an IV in someone who has been puking and has diarhhea or has lost blood or is septic your mistaken. It can be hard for experienced people. As a newbie you don't stand a chance. EMS will often use inta-osseous lines for these people. As an anesthetist I'll put a central line in if needed (think massive IV in your neck). If your serious about learning to start IV's buy 100 of them and practice 1 or 2 a day. This will get you beginner status. As far as fluids I typically select LR or plasma-lyte to start. Normal saline in excess will cause hyper-chloremic metabolic acidosis. This probably is less likely to kill someone than a newbie causing an air embolus while they are learning iv skills with no experienced supervision. I also check labs and adjust my interventions accordingly. I have done this enough that in the absence of available serum labs I know the consequences of my interventions and again adjust my actions accordingly. If your serious about starting IVs and giving fluids I wish I could tell you it's easy and you won't cause any harm. This isn't true because I have seen well trained and educated people do this improperly. As someone herein suggested you are probably better off drinking gatorade or better yet finding an experienced provider as part of your post SHTF inner circle. I am not not trying to be elitest...just honest. And by the way I could care less about the "badge", my advice is based on skill and experience, not credentials.
 
#44 ·
I was an IV RN for almost a year, and did multiple IVs whenever I worked (yes, I did a lot of other things, too, but when I was working I was designated the person to call for hard sticks or I'm-too-busy-to-do-it RNs). I became really good at putting in IVs.

When I changed departments and was no longer in that position, within 2 months my IV skills went way down.

There were many, many nurses who only did 3-4 a month, and had no confidence in their IV skills. It's not something that you can just watch a youtube video and suddenly you're an expert. It's not hard, but it does take a lot of practice to be competent. If you're in SHTF situation, how many of your patients will realistically be early 20s and healthy?

Elderly often have small, weak veins. Prednisone skin. Diabetic or kidney problems means hard veins, some of them will feel great but you won't be able to get any blood out of them (they're "dead" veins). Drug abuse, dehydration, long term illness, long term medications, low blood pressure, these are all things that will make an IV start much harder, and yes even experienced RNs have problems with them.

Yes, some are very easy. Some are not. But remember, military personnel don't have long term medical issues. They are all relatively young and healthy.

I've done a LOT of IVs, and it is honestly not something I would recommend without training and practice.

As has been mentioned, a lot of things can go wrong. Infiltration, infection, hit an artery. If you put an IV in the leg of a diabetic, they can lose their leg. Give fluids to a person with a history of CHF, not good.
 
#47 ·
If you're in SHTF situation, how many of your patients will realistically be early 20s and healthy?

Elderly often have small, weak veins. Prednisone skin. Diabetic or kidney problems means hard veins, some of them will feel great but you won't be able to get any blood out of them (they're "dead" veins). Drug abuse, dehydration, long term illness, long term medications, low blood pressure, these are all things that will make an IV start much harder, and yes even experienced RNs have problems with them.

Yes, some are very easy. Some are not. But remember, military personnel don't have long term medical issues. They are all relatively young and healthy.
I was just thinking this as I read this thread. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I did an IV on 18-24 year olds in 10 years who didn't have amazing veins. Doing and IV stick on a trauma patient is much easier than trying to find that 87 grandma who is sickly.

Great thread thou.
 
#46 ·
also another point, dont get fixated on IV hydration, IO infusions, even SQ hydration. All of which are good, but the easiest thing for a layperson to do to rehydrate someone would be a rectal infusion of clean water. The colon is the most efficient part of your body to bring fluid back into the intravenous system. buy a bunch of foley catheters, hook up a bag with clean water (does not have to be sterile solution) and allow it to gravity feed. some will leak out the rectum, but if you inflate the balloon on the foley that should be somewhat minimized.
 
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