North Korea threatens US with preemptive nuclear strike

[2nevermore]

Originally Posted by Tuco T Provocateur

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog, as the old saying goes.

America is a huge dog, but with no heart. America hasn't won a war in a very, very long time. That despite spending vastly more money on a military than anyone else on earth. America is soft because Americans are soft. That's why America is always flexin' nuts. Trying to act tough hoping nobody tries anything.

OBL had America nailed, a paper tiger and little more.

I know a few Marines who would take exception to that statement.

BTW, where is OBL now? Last time I checked the Navy took care of that little problem.

[PrincessKraken]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

walkman
discman
video cameras
DVD players
any general incandecent or led flashlights
normal pile alkaline batteries
NiCD and NiMH rechargable batteries
computers to include all components
automobiles

.... regardless of what they are they all pretty much break in about 5% of the lifespan of the equivalent japanese products

Except...

That's quality control.

That's not ability.

interesting... N Korea landlocked, only able to recieve POL products via overland convoy... I assume you have said pictures of these POL convoys moving through Pyonyang's treacherous mountain passes???

North Korea is FAR from landlocked.

[mefunkymxw]

Originally Posted by PrincessKraken

Except...

That's quality control.

That's not ability.


North Korea is FAR from landlocked.

you start off with crap parts... you get a crap final product... im sure they didnt remake every part under one roof with six sigma black belts in Project Management roles...

ok then, you got pics of of iranian flagged ships floating around taiwanese, south korean and japanese waters headed to N Kor... i should have said that given the waters that surround it, it more feasible to take an overland route through pakistan and all of china.

[PrincessKraken]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

you start off with crap parts... you get a crap final product... im sure they didnt remake every part under one roof with six sigma black belts in Project Management roles...

ok then, you got pics of of iranian flagged ships floating around taiwanese, south korean and japanese waters headed to N Kor

Nope, Chinese waters. They don't have to go near S Korea or Japan.


You really need to look at that map and the distances again.

[mefunkymxw]

Originally Posted by PrincessKraken

Nope, Chinese waters. They don't have to go near S Korea or Japan.


You really need to look at that map and the distances again.

regardless i assume you have pics of said flagged vessles with the proper POL markings violating the internationally accepted N Korean embargos in place...

[mefunkymxw]

look, you guys can sit around quaking in your little booties about some crazy koreans... or you can know that kim il-sung has just as much invested in self preservation as any other human being on the planet... he has more to loose in using his nukes then he could ever hope to gain. his country is a mess and he cannot project military power anywhere since he has no food.... which oh by the way, if you use nukes on a target, you pretty much contaminate any potential consumable food you might be after.

you can either live in constrained reality, or live in your own concocted fairy tales of fearmongering. i choose the former.

[PrincessKraken]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

regardless i assume you have pics of said flagged vessles with the proper POL markings violating the internationally accepted N Korean embargos in place...

There is no regardless China has been bringing them goods over the seas for years.

You really should open your eyes.

[mefunkymxw]

Originally Posted by PrincessKraken

There is no regardless China has been bringing them goods over the seas for years.

You really should open your eyes.

I know China has, but you stated Iran... regardless that means china owns them to an extent... it is not in China's economic or political interest to let N Korea off of their leash... China keeps them from falling into absolute Chaos and as a result they have a degree of control.

China is like a mexican with a scary pitbull in a cage... what they dont realize is that we have michael vick

[PrincessKraken]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

I know China has, but you stated Iran...

Since I have to spell EVERYTHING out for you in order for you to make a logical connection I'm done with this conversation.

[Woodswalker]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

look, you guys can sit around quaking in your little booties about some crazy koreans... or you can know that kim il-sung has just as much invested in self preservation as any other human being on the planet... he has more to loose in using his nukes then he could ever hope to gain. his country is a mess and he cannot project military power anywhere since he has no food.

you can either live in constrained reality, or live in your own concocted fairy tales of fearmongering. i choose the former.

What you and others fail to see is that he is not a rational , sane individual .
If he did start a war that , in the end , destroyed his country . It woudn't be the first time in history a crazy , powermad dictator ended up destroying his own country .

This IS something everyone should be worried about !
It was reported N. Korea has about 90 nukes . Maybe he doesn't have the ability to hit the U.S. but he could use the nukes against the 30000 troops we have staioned in S. Korea . He could use them against our allies - Japan , Taiwan .
If he starts a war the U.S. will have to get involved .
China will have to get involved .
The potential for a domino effect resulting in WW3 is very real .

[tofu]

The South Koreans have Patriot Missile Batteries, Okinawa has them, the U.S. ships in this region, as well as the Japanese Destroyers they now have can shoot down any "Scud" that North Korea can manage to get off the ground.

[jhughes3281]

Originally Posted by Draqwraith

Btw this time china backed the sanctions.

They backed the sanctions, however still played a large interference role to get the sanctions reduced. That also does nothing for the Chinese companies that help NK all while China turns a shoulder.

As much heartburn as NK is giving China, they will never give it up because that would me a potentially unified Korea which has US backing and then we would be sitting flush with the China border. They will never let that happen.

[mefunkymxw]

Originally Posted by Woodswalker

What you and others fail to see is that he is not a rational , sane individual .
If he did start a war that , in the end , destroyed his country . It woudn't be the first time in history a crazy , powermad dictator ended up destroying his own country .

This IS something everyone should be worried about !
It was reported N. Korea has about 90 nukes . Maybe he doesn't have the ability to hit the U.S. but he could use the nukes against the 30000 troops we have staioned in S. Korea . He could use them against our allies - Japan , Taiwan .
If he starts a war the U.S. will have to get involved .
China will have to get involved .
The potential for a domino effect resulting in WW3 is very real .

what you dont realize is that sanity is not a prerequisite for intelligence... self preservation is one thing that dictators actually know pretty well... his family has not been in charge of the country for almost 70 years by taking advantage of tactics that would ensure their own destruction. are they willing to let their population suffer, sure, but they know luxury and the subservience of an entire country, they wont give it up on a whim.

one thing i do know is about proportionality in terms of rules of engagement... if they use nuke, we can reciprocate legally with nukes... they drop one, we drop 10 on the same location, that is legal and proportional, and a great disincentive for agression.

also when N korea goes rogue, china will drop the leash and walk away... there is no incentive to halt their economic growth by letting go of a wild card they control. if N korea decides to use their nukes i promimse you that it will not be sanctioned by china, especially not openly.

[mefunkymxw]

Originally Posted by PrincessKraken

Since I have to spell EVERYTHING out for you in order for you to make a logical connection I'm done with this conversation.

fantastic, with you new found free time, go pickup a chalmers johnson book called 'blowback' it goes very in depth into SE asian military history to include both koreas and japan

[beaniweeni]

I find it amazing that so many people are dismissing NK as a non-entity. People wake up! All it takes is for one wack job to fire off a nuc for the entire thing to go up in flames. If I lived in South Korea, I'd be mighty worried right now. I, for one, do think NK is capable of causing lots of damage and should be considered a viable threat.

[PrincessKraken]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

fantastic, with you new found free time, go pickup a chalmers johnson book called 'blowback' it goes very in depth into SE asian military history to include both koreas and japan

ROFLMAO!

Oh good lord, Chalmers Johnson.

Really?

HAHAHAHA ok.

The man thought we lived in a democracy and that if we continued on our path we would become more of a republic.

I hate to inform you, as he had been informed by his critics many times...

WE ARE A REPUBLIC.

[pastornator]

Originally Posted by Tuco T Provocateur

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog, as the old saying goes.

America is a huge dog, but with no heart. America hasn't won a war in a very, very long time. That despite spending vastly more money on a military than anyone else on earth. America is soft because Americans are soft. That's why America is always flexin' nuts. Trying to act tough hoping nobody tries anything.

OBL had America nailed, a paper tiger and little more.

Not sure I agree with you... Where is OBL today?

That being said, I do think that the HEAD of our current administration is a paper tiger, but the Pentagon and the men they control are something else. They can and will take care of business if it comes to that, esteemed leader aside.

[mefunkymxw]

Originally Posted by PrincessKraken

ROFLMAO!

Oh good lord, Chalmers Johnson.

Really?

HAHAHAHA ok.

The man thought we lived in a democracy and that if we continued on our path we would become more of a republic.

I hate to inform you, as he had been informed by his critics many times...

WE ARE A REPUBLIC.

his opinion of what type of federal governement (or more precicely how he thinks congressional representatives get elected) has little overlap with the decades of intelligence gathering he has conducted on the SE Asian region.

if you discredit an individuals entire bredth of knowledge on one inconsistancy (which he is incorrect, and i do concur with you on) then I find it hard that you believe any emprirically derived truth as the individual who discovered it statistically must have been incorrect at some point in their lives. im sure issac newton made a mistake at some point, yet we still believe in gravity and the usefulness of calculus.

while we were founded as a republic, i believe that we have functionally mutated into an EMPIRE (as rome did) as is his main hypothesis in his texts. I would say the roman senate (toward their later years) was about as effective as our current one.

[PrincessKraken]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

his opinion of what type of federal governement (or more precicely how he thinks congressional representatives get elected) has little overlap with the decades of intelligence gathering he has conducted on the SE Asian region.

if you discredit an individuals entire bredth of knowledge on one inconsistancy (which he is incorrect on) then I find it hard for to believe any emprirically derived truth as the individual who discovered it statistically must have been incorrect at some point in their lives.

The 'Blowback' series isn't just a list of figures, it's a manifesto of why the US is hated around the world and how our imperialism will turn us from a democracy into a republic.

The entire point of his series is incorrect in so much that we cannot go from a democracy into a republic as we are not a democracy and are a republic.

It's not a result of him being incorrect at some point in his life. It is a result of the inconsistency, especially with that supreme point, it obfuscates completely that he has empirically derived truth and a breadth of knowledge on the subject of our government and anything that has to do with it.

If you lay the foundation wrong, it doesn't matter how good a finish carpenter you are, the house is going to fall down.

[Woodswalker]

Originally Posted by mefunkymxw

what you dont realize is that sanity is not a prerequisite for intelligence... self preservation is one thing that dictators actually know pretty well... his family has not been in charge of the country for almost 70 years by taking advantage of tactics that would ensure their own destruction. are they willing to let their population suffer, sure, but they know luxury and the subservience of an entire country, they wont give it up on a whim.

one thing i do know is about proportionality in terms of rules of engagement... if they use nuke, we can reciprocate legally with nukes... they drop one, we drop 10 on the same location, that is legal and proportional, and a great disincentive for agression.

also when N korea goes rogue, china will drop the leash and walk away... there is no incentive to halt their economic growth by letting go of a wild card they control. if N korea decides to use their nukes i promimse you that it will not be sanctioned by china, especially not openly.

What makes you think he is intelligent ?
Intelligence is not a prerequisite for sanity .
There isn't much doubt that he is unstable , at best .
Even if he did not use his nukes (at first) he could still start a war . Could be he thinks he has the power to take back the south without using his nukes .