Coyotes and Wild Dogs - Part 1

[Graywolf]

I was thinking about what it would be like after the SHTF and people let their animals loose. The coyote problem is growing, and I believe once these domestic dogs pack up and turn feral, it could get really bad, because they have no fear of humans and will attack farm animals and the remaining domestic dogs. Eventually if they start raiding camps and taking animals, they are going to go after kids and maybe even lone adults. My problem is that I am an animal lover, and since I like animals better than 99% of the people I have met, shooting them really bothers me. Does anyone out there have a suggestion as to how to keep them away without actually hurting them? Would it be possible to feed them and coax them back to the domestic side? Give me your ideas.

PS> Make sure you check the part 2 of this discussion out, because things aren't always as they seem, and part 2 has a bit of a twist ...

[Wheelgunner]

The short answer is no.

The real problem as I see it, coyotes are smart and dogs are savage.

Coyotes and dogs can interbreed and create a frankenstein of coydogs.

Coydogs pack hunt for pleasure and not just for meat. They are smart and savage and the only way to deal with them is to return them to the earth.

Sorry I didn't have a more pleasant answer for you.

But hey, it's just my opinion and I'm just some old guy that needs to justify all the advice he's given to many folks in the past so he doesn't feel his life has been wrong from the get-go.

Wheel

[sara77]

There have been a few coyote attacks in the news lately but that is very rare. There are feral dogs here and they are very afraid of people, they just stay away. Coyotes and domestic dogs can mate but it is also not that common, I don't think they like the smell of the domestic dog. Anyway, I don't think you have much to worry about. Depending on the SHTF scenario, I think a very large population of dogs could starve to death and the rest would probably hunt dumps and small animals.

[steve5]

i would think you would just have a bunch of mongrals runing around like it was when i was in iraq. they just run around and scavage for food and dont really bother anyone eventhough they are starving

[AKpredator]

Coyote's will trim down the dog, cat and other pet population in a hurry. Very intelligent hunters.

[Haffenreffer]

There are coyote/dog mixed breeds


I don't have a problem with coyotes. They mostly operate at night and run away when they see humans. They did get my cat though, but I can't fault them for doing that. That's what they do.

[Carne Frio]

Dog meat is actually tasty.

[Hick Industries]

Most of the feral dogs breed into a smaller animal. That would reduce the risk. In the case of a very large dog breed such as a german shepard breeding a pack of large feral dogs I recommend that you learn to shoot first. I agree that feral dogs are a completely different animal that coyotes or domestic dogs out for a nights fun. I love dogs, but feral animals need to be shot.

[Scott in AK]

Originally Posted by Graywolf

My problem is that I am an animal lover, and since I like animals better than 99% of the people I have met, shooting them really bothers me.

When I see/ hear this I just shake my head.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an animal hater.
It just that they are..well...ANIMALS.

A few years ago I had a good lab, one day he made the error of bareing his teeth to my daughter, BLAM! .223 to the head. I didn't even think twice, did not lose sleep...because it was an...ANIMAL.

To answer you other question, when it turns into a problem with feral dogs/coyotes, shoot all you can and hang them on your fence, very soon the others will vacate the area.

Scott

[Graywolf]

Originally Posted by Scott in AK

When I see/ hear this I just shake my head.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an animal hater.
It just that they are..well...ANIMALS.

I know a lot of people feel that way, and I don't take you wrong. I have spent my life raising and training animals. I understand animals. When they growl, there is a reason, and when they bite I totally understand what I did to cause it. Animals are not instinctively hateful, deceitful, backstabbing creatures, and they do not lie. They are honest with their feelings and emotions. When you get a response, there was a reason, because they do not do things to purposely cause harm for harm's sake. I have always known to watch dogs around children, because dogs read body language. The slightest incline of an ear means something. They are use to reading adult body language, but the body language of children stirs a prey instinct in the larger breeds, and the noises they make sound like a wounded animal sound. I have met a lot of people in my 52 years, and most of them have found a way to put a knife in my back before it was all said and done. Most people have little honor anymore; they will lie to your face all the while smiling, they use you for what you can do for them, and when you really need help, they are nowhere to be found. Don't get me wrong, I have been lucky enough to come across a few people who will always be in my heart, but not many. I grew up with dogs, cats, birds, chickens and showing hunter horses. I have raised wolfdogs and learned to train dogs. By far, the animals I have known have all had better manners and dispositions than the people! I am getting side tracked ... the point of this thread was to ask ... If dogs become feral and start to pack together and hunt in my area, possibly injuring my animals or other people with me, do I have any alternative other than shooting them? Thanks

[Griff]

Mr. Wolf,

I think that we've all been in a place where a little certainty is desirable, but animals' version of that is hungry, or not. You don't have claws, or fangs. They do. Brutally honest in its simplicity, isn't it?

Take care of yourself.

[Graywolf]

Originally Posted by Griff

Mr. Wolf,

Thank you all for your posts, and Griff ... it's Ms. Wolf

And now for the rest of the story ... go to Coyotes and Dog Packs part 2

[Woodswalker]

Everytime I see a post like this I have to laugh , shake my head and think , how rediculous !!!
1] , I've been out in the woods 1000s of times . I've seen coyotes , I've heard coyotes . They don't bother me or scare me .
2] , attacks on humans by coyotes , dogs , bears , racoons , skunks or whatever , are extremely rare .
3] If the s hit the fan , coyotes or dogs would be at the bottom of my list of things to worry about .

[Graywolf]

In Virginia, we have had wild dogs pack up and start attacking people. My other half was involved with local game and law folks to hunt them down and kill them, so in Virginia it is a problem from time to time, and I don't think the ones who got attacked are laughing.

[blackbear68]

They have coydog hunts in NH so sorry if I don't buy the they dont' attack you scenario. they do exsist and will kill domestic livestock hense the need for the hunts. I don't want to kill dogs either but in shtf the world and the rules are not going to apply. I mean I mayself will be nice to others but I will be wary as well best defence don't be seen and leave as little trace of yourselves as you can.

[SurviveIowa]

Originally Posted by Graywolf

In Virginia, we have had wild dogs pack up and start attacking people. My other half was involved with local game and law folks to hunt them down and kill them, so in Virginia it is a problem from time to time, and I don't think the ones who got attacked are laughing.

I'm an animal lover too, and used to have major problems with the concept of killing animals. I have, however, changed.

My brother raises turkeys. A small number, in coops in his back yard. One time a few years ago something broke in to the coop and killed all but one of his birds. The next night they returned and killed the last one. I helped him rig the empty coop as a trap and baited it with a live chicken. The animals struck again that night, and we trapped some of them. It was a pack of neighborhood dogs. Not feral dogs, neighborhood dogs. They would get together late at night, form a pack, and go on the prowl.

I have decided that if anyone or anything endangers my wife, my cats, or me, that creature dies. As much as I love animals, I love them more.

I have also learned to hunt, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

As to your question about taming ferals - I'd say no. In some special circumstances it can be done - caught while still a pup, given a lot of food and praise, etc - but once an animal has been running feral for more than a month or so, forget it. It's feral forever. And after TSHTF, you would really be doing the animal a favor by ending it's struggles. An animal living feral will be living daily with starvation, disease, and predation by other animals. It's an ugly, hard life.

[Hondo Sackett]

I'd say shoot 'um. It may not be pleasant, but safety of yourself, your family an' your animals that you depend on for food is more important. For many Ranchers Coyotes are a real problem even today an' in some states ranchers an' farmers pay bounties for every coyote killed, so if it's a problem now it would be worse then. Shootin' them is the best answer I can find.

[believeume]

I grew up on a 2,000 acre cotton farm. We had cattle, pigs, chickens too etc. But the area was loaded with wild dogs. They run in packs, and can be quite deadly. You won't hear them coming. but their hunger in a SHTF situation from going from being fed daily to a world where all the game animals like rabbit and deer will quickly become extinct and there is nothing left to eat but what ever moves, and if thats you, then you'll be dinner. A simple gun shot in the air will send them running most likely, but they'll be back, they'll be watching from a distance for you to turn your back. I'm a major animal lover to, i had a pet coon, pet kingfish bird (lol) pet weasel. If it was hurt, i brought it home. I even had a pet seagull that broke a wing. But when it comes to wild packs of dogs, they have forgotten their love of man. Hunger is a mighty master, it over rides, all other emotions. For them, any meal may be their last. It might have been weeks before they ate their last mouse, which didn't last them long. Shooting them would most likely put them out of their misery in that situation. If you wanted to make pets out of them, put some dog food out for them at night on the ground. Even so, if they see you approach the spot you place the food each night, they would see that as a threat to the area where they find food at night and still attack you, thinking you are stealing the food supply rather than bringing it out to them. If you had not eaten for 2 weeks, how sane would you be? Thats the issue here in a teotwawki world. A coyote grew up wild and has known nothing else all his life and is less stressed. But a domesticated dog, turned loose to fend for himself in the wild, becomes way over the top on the anxiety level. He spends months trying to smell a path to his old master and can't find anything, but fear of every little sound in the wild. So they are living pretty much "snapped" in their thinking by the point they go into the feral state and that makes them far more dangerous than a common "always" been wild critter. Animals are no different than humans, and a domesticated animal, has his little water bowl, and food bowl and sleeping mat all his life, and never has to think where his meal is coming from. But once released, after years of pampering of life with zero anxiety, they snap really easy as a result. If they charge you, shoot over their heads but don't be surprised if the keep coming anyway. Good luck.

[Upsate Joe]

Originally Posted by Scott in AK

When I see/ hear this I just shake my head.


A few years ago I had a good lab, one day he made the error of bareing his teeth to my daughter, BLAM! .223 to the head. I didn't even think twice, did not lose sleep...because it was an...ANIMAL.



Scott

That's F'd up Scott! What did your daughter do to the "good dog" to make it bear it's teeth at her? That's the dogs way of saying stop f'ing with me. It didn't bite her because it was a GOOD DOG! It only warned her. People are animals too, don't forget that. Just some more than others. Discipline your kid before you go blowing your dogs head off!

[vicdotcom]

Originally Posted by Graywolf

Does anyone out there have a suggestion as to how to keep them away without actually hurting them? Would it be possible to feed them and coax them back to the domestic side? Give me your ideas.

The only way to keep them away is to keep their food source away. Ferrel dogs/yotes are pack animals. To feed the pack, they need to find food.

Unless you have A LOT of food, it would not be possible (in my opinion) to coax them back to domestic. In order to domesticate them, they need to have to not worry about food anymore. ALL their food needs must be met for the whole pack. Do you have that much on hand?

Also once the food is out or you stop feeding them, you can look for the dominate dog to get aggresive again.

Post SHTF, I dont see this happening. Just think of it this way, a ferral pack is a pack of survivalist dogs. Can you ever "untrain" your survival instinct?