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Old 04-21-2017, 12:05 AM
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The congress that wrote the incompetent 9/11 report to cover up 9/11 are the same ones who can't control their own snap chat.

Oh, what compartment do we want to put gravity in?
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 9111315 View Post
The congress that wrote the incompetent 9/11 report to cover up 9/11 are the same ones who can't control their own snap chat.

Oh, what compartment do we want to put gravity in?
You know that gravity really does not exist don't you? Gravity is a big conspiracy designed thousands of years ago to one day explain 9/11/01.

Proof you say? If gravity existed, then all the planets would be sucked into the sun rather than orbit the sun.... yet, here we are just going around it in orbit indefinitely. Hmmmm.... pretty suspect if you ask me.

Therefore it's a conspiracy.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem1950 View Post
You've spent a lot of time and effort on making up a bunch of bizarre what ifs.

None of it, zero, nada, explains any of the omissions, distortions and contradictions of the official excuse playbook.

Oh, I forgot, the whole 9/11 Commission Report is nothing but a bunch of what ifs - What if we say a plane augered into the ground and disappeared? Sounds good. Who's gonna question us, we're the government, we never lie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmuYgP7-RfU
My post was meant to and successfully did demonstrate the thousands of people spread across multiple agencies, most of them patriotic Americans, such an elaborate hoax would require.

PS - our government has not been very good at achieving big secret things or complex tasks very well. The more people and moving parts, the worse success rate. Pulling off a 9/11/01 insider job would have been logistically impossible. Keeping it secret beyond impossible. Folks leak information.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem1950 View Post
Just when we thought you were out, you pulled yourself back in!

And the hits just keep on coming.

His people must have panicked and renewed his contract.

I guess where he comes from, pulling nonsense out of one's derriere in a matter of fact manner makes it so.

I'm sorry. I forgot. You aren't speaking on your own volition.

^^^ Disregard all of the above - Everything in your post is false and has been debunked numerous times. Nice try...


Resorting to name calling and insults? Why? If you are so steadfast in you beliefs why would a thoughtful post with some very plausible points rattle you so much that you would insult the person behind the post?

It seems to me that with some folks around here the paranoia runs very deep. Anyone that does not agree with the conspiracy must be a government bad guy or must be an unintelligent follower?

SMH
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:27 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB2f...E#t=413.826031

Events prior ro 9-11
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:23 AM
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My final comment.

We all have our perspective on the events of 9/11; mine are of a personal nature, given my involvement in the aftermath and contacts with others who were far more profoundly affected and in positions of authority to this day.
I try to stear clear of these conversations for my own well being and for professional reasons.
I do not subscribe to the various far out theories, as I trust in Occam's razor.
What I will state is that there was and is foul play and cover up surrounding 9/11 and beyond; it is subtle, passive, invasive and nothing new.
Hint:
Inaction at the top of the pyramid, in the face of solid intelligence, allows for simple, plausible denial; a very safe haven from which to allow malfeasance.
This was about greed, power and human nature.
Arguments to the effect that absolutely nothing nefarious occurred on the part of own government in relation to 9/11 are as absurd as holograms and alien involvement; this is absolutely self evident and a matter of record.
The true argument is to what degree and to what end, period.
I've more I'd like to reveal and discuss, but it would be counterproductive, risky and circumlocution at this point.

malfeasance

[mal-fee-zuh ns]
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See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun, Law.
1.
the performance by a public official of an act that is legally unjustified, harmful, or contrary to law; wrongdoing (used especially of an act in violation of a public trust).
Compare misfeasance (def 2), nonfeasance.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:17 AM
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Strange, I mentioned none of those factors or theories.
Obfuscating a basic premise by shot gunning a basic truth, [ compartmentalization is an intrinsic weak point ], with strawman statements, only points you out as a transparent tool.
Troll away buddy.


Stranger still, I never said you did but I did add this qualifier:
""the number of people needed would easily be in the thousands depending on how far down the rabbit hole of truther theories you choose to go.""
Then I added some examples all of which have been put forth on this thread.
So maybe you don't choose to go that far down the truther's rabbit hole, what is the smallest number of people you think it would take to pull this off?
I have to suggest you read leadcounsel's post for a rough idea and I think he's being purposely generous as in not overstating things to make the point.
A conspiracy of three usually works if you kill two of them.


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Old 04-21-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Campdavid View Post
Resorting to name calling and insults? Why? If you are so steadfast in you beliefs why would a thoughtful post with some very plausible points rattle you so much that you would insult the person behind the post?

It seems to me that with some folks around here the paranoia runs very deep. Anyone that does not agree with the conspiracy must be a government bad guy or must be an unintelligent follower?

SMH
Well it seems to me that if someone walks like an intelligence asset, and talks like an intelligence asset, and responds like an intelligence asset, with the talking points and techniques and manner of an intelligence asset...then sure as shootn' he most likely is one!
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:06 AM
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My final comment.

We all have our perspective on the events of 9/11; mine are of a personal nature, given my involvement in the aftermath and contacts with others who were far more profoundly affected and in positions of authority to this day.
I try to stear clear of these conversations for my own well being and for professional reasons.
I do not subscribe to the various far out theories, as I trust in Occam's razor.
What I will state is that there was and is foul play and cover up surrounding 9/11 and beyond; it is subtle, passive, invasive and nothing new.
Hint:
Inaction at the top of the pyramid, in the face of solid intelligence, allows for simple, plausible denial; a very safe haven from which to allow malfeasance.
This was about greed, power and human nature.
Arguments to the effect that absolutely nothing nefarious occurred on the part of own government in relation to 9/11 are as absurd as holograms and alien involvement; this is absolutely self evident and a matter of record.
The true argument is to what degree and to what end, period.
I've more I'd like to reveal and discuss, but it would be counterproductive, risky and circumlocution at this point.

malfeasance

[mal-fee-zuh ns]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun, Law.
1.
the performance by a public official of an act that is legally unjustified, harmful, or contrary to law; wrongdoing (used especially of an act in violation of a public trust).
Compare misfeasance (def 2), nonfeasance.
Yeah. There are many people who have inside information and know what actually happened, to one degree or another, that contradicts the official fiction but can't, or won't, reveal what they know because it would be very unhealthy. Lot of that going around...for eons.

Thanks for your post in any case. It's about the closest thing to bravery on this subject, in this thread, that we're gonna see, I'm afraid to say.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:08 AM
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What's your estimate for the number of conspirators for the "official" conspiracy?
  • Bin Laden
  • Probably his family in Saudi Arabia, they probably at least knew his whereabouts, activities or associates.
  • His suicidal pilots, and yet able to keep a secret.
  • The still-unnamed network in Pakistan that hid him for almost a decade
  • The people who produced his "real" videos and made sure Rita Katz got ahold of them, without any ability to trace their origin.
  • His banking and funding network.
  • What was his personal "plan" for after 9/11? Did he hope to "win"? And nobody would come after him? The whole thing makes no sense. We can only speculate if you subscribe to the "official" story, but he must have known all hell would break loose, and have a lifelong escape/hiding and alternate identity plan in place. And yet his final chapter doesn't make sense in that regard either. But there must have been post-9/11 people still associated with him in some capacity.

And none of these people are "professionals" in espionage or dirty tricks, and they kept it all secret for months of planning their conspiracy. Despite knowing they were on a suicidal mission.

There is no single independent conspiracy theory. Some people lean toward CGI, others toward missiles (Pentagon especially), or a mixture of things (burning heap of rubble in PA, for example). And perhaps things did hit the WTC buildings, but were CGI-enhanced. I'm still unable to find any photos or videos taken by private individuals. Odd, you'd think, in a city that large.

But it's possible that the events happened exactly as described, and yet was still a conspiracy that doesn't mesh with the "official" report: Bin Laden was hired to do what he did. Motive: Oil. And to justify a perpetual state of war in the Mideast, trillions in post Cold War M.I.C. contracts and begin dismantling civil liberties in the US.

At any rate, like I've written before, it's somewhat a moot point what exactly happened. We know the result. We didn't win. We're still losing.

Winning would have been putting him and his cohorts out to pasture within a couple months. Dialing back the military budget to peace-time levels for the first time in a century or so.

And just to spite the terrorists, we should have INCREASED civil liberties hier in der heimat.

Making fake people, with fake histories, isn't entirely complex and we can be certain it's a major function of a super power's intelligence activity (like Dr. Lube). As for the Dems pouncing on it for political points, I'm afraid only the hardcore left-right radio-programmed people harbor that hope. They're in on false flag too, no difference. Whether Tonkin, Sandy Hook, Orlando, or other events that don't pass the critical thinking test. Or, worse, maybe most politicians themselves don't know, and don't want to know. Someone else is running the show, and their job is just to score political points when they can, according to the script and talking-points they're handed. Politicians are mostly lawyers and actors, and both are well-accustomed to taking money for saying things they don't believe in.

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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Okay, I've stepped back in to address the absolute nonsense of the conspiracy side, once again. The eco chamber of conspiracy is off the deep end in this last few pages. We're even back to hologram planes...

Folks here talking about compartmentalization don't get it, and have probably never had a clearance. In my time in service, I have met all sorts of people - heroes, jerks, selfless and selfish... But I've never met a person (even my clients) in service that would participate in the wholesale murder or coverup of untold Americans in NYC and DC and elsewhere, launching us into a global war with collateral consequences for our nation and the world. Correction, there might be a few really evil people that passed through the halls of my defense office but they were such a rare exception that it's barely worth including.

So if you take each item and guestimate we could get an reasonable number.

* 4 falsified hijacked planes would take the overall conspiracy or fabrication of some 265 (not sure if that includes terrorists) passengers and all their backstories. Pilots, airline employees, and various people of all walks of life. Then factor an average of 10 family members per person (with personal knowledge of their deaths, received remains/personal effects, phone calls, whathaveyou). So that's 2,650 "conspirators" right there, who presumably would want answers. Yet overwhelmingly the either accept it, or demand more answers (both groups would therefore not be conspirators).

* 4 planes require on-the-ground FAA and airline employees. Employees checked those passengers in, loaded the planes, loaded the luggage, talked to the pilots in the air, heard the hijackers, coordinated with other towers. Figure what, an average of 50 employees per flight = 200 licensed and highly trustworthy employees.

* 4 missing planes is a large financial hit for someone. Where are the planes, who paid for them in the end? Does Boeing take the hit, or the Airlines, or the insurance carriers. Who is holding the bag? Are they all conspirators too?

* Trillions of dollars in NYC property damage from terrorism (usually excluded from insurance claims). Some folks are going to want answers. Who is left holding that bag?

* Large groups of conspirators to doctor all the documents, audio and video of the airplanes - flight towers, blackboxes, air traffic control logs, flight logs, etc. At minimum, dozens of individuals.

* Demo teams would number into at least the dozens to wire the towers over any reasonable amount of time. Realistically to wire all 3 buildings would take an Army of demo teams - over 200 floors would need to be wired, and thousands of pounds of demo. All unnoticed of course.

* Pentagon had scores of witnesses, say 100, who saw the plane hit the building and similar accounts. Most are service members.

* Hundreds of fire fighters and accident investigators at each location, and forensic teams, medical personnel, the DNA experts, the medical examiners, and so forth. There's a separate group for NYC, then one for DC, and one for PA. Say 100 per location = 400 professional licensed trained oath serving Americans.

* Then all the follow on investigators. Dozens, scores, maybe hundreds. And who is planting all this evidence? Plane parts, DNA, personal luggage and effect identified by the family members of the victims, etc. Again, dozens of people required at each location.

* So you say a missile hit one or both PA and the Pentagon? Those require authorizations and coordinates and stand down orders. That's 10-50 high ranking Service members.

* Then of course the planners who put this in motion. Lots of high ranking brass across 5 branches of military, who relay orders down the chain. If you think Bush just picks up the phone and calls Major Jones you're mistaken. It goes from SEC DEF to his subordinates SEC Army/SEC Navy, etc. to their subordinates 4 stars, then 3 stars, then 2 stars, then 1 star, then COL, then LTC, then MAJ, and so forth... that's how it works. So, now dozens of senior officers in all branches involved.

* The Bush administration changed hands to one very HOSTILE to the Bush administration, and the wars. IF there was any evidence of a coverup or conspiracy, the Dems and Obama would have used that tool to maximum advantage to hang war criminals of the prior administration, and cement the Dems in absolute control for the forseable future. Note that didn't occur.

That list alone is into the 4000 range. Perhaps some in the list are selfish anti American evil people. But a conservative estimate is 95% are American loving patriots who would not participate or would be whistle blowers, write books, or have death bed confessions. Crickets.

*Compartmentalized* - get real.

* The FAA team that fakes all these audio transcripts might just catch on in their being duped, and be pretty upset by it.

* The FAA investigators might just catch on in their being duped, and be pretty upset by it.

* The military members (of which there would have needed to be hundreds by a conservative estimate, mostly high ranking or retired) might just catch on in their being duped, and be pretty upset by it.

I could go on, you (should) get the point. It will be lost on some...
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:46 AM
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Let me elaborate when you're debunking independent thinkers, not all of us think alike. There are some people with a contrarian personality, who'll disagree with authority automatically, or automatically gobble up "truth" theories -- with just as little independent thinking going on as the run of the mill sheeple.

I've *never* supported an "inside job" theory because I don't see a fine line, in the first place, between inside and outside. Very powerful people influence DC. Politicians make 6 figures in office. CEO's make magnitudes more. And there are 1,000+ known billionaires in the world. When you get down to it, politicians are on the lower-rungs when it comes to raw money power. People like Cheney and Rumsfeld may have just been the autocrats working for the plutocrats. Logistics men, fixers, etc. I once toured a NASA complex and the security were private rent-a-cops. And NASA itself has been hiring the Russians to ferry US astronauts to the ISS. There is nothing under the sun, or in orbit, that isn't fair game for private contracting. If 9/11 didn't quite happen as we were told, it was almost certainly a black budget private dirty tricks group, possibly bankrolled by people not in government at all. And the corporate alphabet soup media was involved in embellishing/fabricating it (as with the crisis actors). Media moguls have long had a role in beating the drums for war.

I'd suspect that very few politicians would have known the truth, let alone been involved in it. And they wouldn't want to either. Even with "ordinary" crimes, it's common that witnesses don't come forward. Accidents happen, especially if it involves a druglord, people with criminal or gang networks, etc. I'm sure there's an enormous number of crimes that occur and it's not entirely irrational to respond with "Me? I didn't see anything. Nope, nothing at all."

And even if the military or intelligence agencies knew the truth, they might not reveal it to the American public, lest our society go into absolute upheaval.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by aramchek View Post

Making fake people, with fake histories, isn't entirely complex and we can be certain it's a major function of a super power's intelligence activity (like Dr. Lube). As for the Dems pouncing on it for political points, I'm afraid only the hardcore left-right radio-programmed people harbor that hope. They're in on false flag too, no difference. Whether Tonkin, Sandy Hook, Orlando, or other events that don't pass the critical thinking test. Or, worse, maybe most politicians themselves don't know, and don't want to know. Someone else is running the show, and their job is just to score political points when they can, according to the script and talking-points they're handed. Politicians are mostly lawyers and actors, and both are well-accustomed to taking money for saying things they don't believe in.
And when 90%+ of the media/press in this country are controlled and managed by individuals with the same agenda, it ain't too difficult to coordinate and maintain a narrative that supports said agenda.

Everyone (the reporters, presenters etc. on down the line) gets used to their comfortable salary and their house payments and their kids tuition... Rock the boat? Nope.

Even a character like El Rushbo or the Hannity could never get off the R vs D reservation and discuss anything close to resembling the covert power cartel. He would be toast in less than a week.

He who has the gold makes the rules - and who/what has all the gold?

Let's face facts here citizens - As long as the current nefarious power structure is in charge, truth, justice and the American way is dead. In government anyway.

And that, boys and girls, is what corruption is all about!
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:35 PM
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I like this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUQAslWBRDY

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Old 04-21-2017, 06:57 PM
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Aramchek, Gem thank you both for your insights into other aspects of this event that most people, myself included, haven't really fully explored or considered. Your posts and your time are very much appreciated.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:08 PM
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Excellent synopsis!

This got me to thinking about something, and I am surprised it never occurred to me before. It's about the four (4) radical Islamic pilots.

Now, I know that there have been a lot of commercial jet airliner hijackings, and I could be wrong about this, but, I do not recall any, other than on 9/11, where the hijackers actually took over the controls personally and piloted the plane.

If this is the case then we have another first, last and only phenomenon where four wild and crazy guys, who had never piloted a jetliner before, just jumped into the captains seats and became test pilots.

If this is true then the airline companies are paying way too much for those highly trained pilots (many of them ex-military) with thousands of flight hours.

Edit: Just to add, I understand that those jokers supposedly went to puddle jumper flight schools but that story turned out to be bogus like everything else about them.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by iyaayas View Post
Aramchek, Gem thank you both for your insights into other aspects of this event that most people, myself included, haven't really fully explored or considered. Your posts and your time are very much appreciated.
I agree 100%, thanks guys.
We've spent a lot of time here arguing the particulars and we never really addressed the structure, the corrupt political machine that made it possible for the psychopaths to rise to the highest offices.
I also agree with the statement you made about the official story, just about every detail of the official story has to be accurate or the official story doesn't work. A consensus is formed by using details to generate a fact. If one fact cited by the 9/11 commission or the NIST report is found to be wrong or a lie then that means those details that were used to generate that fact has to be wrong or a lie as well. It would cause a cascade because all the explanations of the official story support each other. I think that's why people are so rabidly protecting the official story, they know that's what would happen. If they relent on one point it could create a problem.
Thanks guys
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:36 PM
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I agree 100%, thanks guys.
We've spent a lot of time here arguing the particulars and we never really addressed the structure, the corrupt political machine that made it possible for the psychopaths to rise to the highest offices.
I also agree with the statement you made about the official story, just about every detail of the official story has to be accurate or the official story doesn't work. A consensus is formed by using details to generate a fact. If one fact cited by the 9/11 commission or the NIST report is found to be wrong or a lie then that means those details that were used to generate that fact has to be wrong or a lie as well. It would cause a cascade because all the explanations of the official story support each other. I think that's why people are so rabidly protecting the official story, they know that's what would happen. If they relent on one point it could create a problem.
Thanks guys
Yes. There is an overarching aspect to exposing these sorts of official fictions which is the cascading affect of shock and distrust in the system that must be avoided at all costs. That's why we have denial and stonewalling on one end and vociferous denunciation on the other from the gatekeepers.

An interesting example of strange bedfellows is radical "lefty" Noam Chomsky who is damn near anti anything that comes out of Uncle Sam's mouth but when it comes to 9/11 it's weee doggies, hold the phone Martha, to think that it's anything other than what I saw or was told on the TV is preposterous. Like our favorite consigliere.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campdavid View Post
Resorting to name calling and insults? Why? If you are so steadfast in you beliefs why would a thoughtful post with some very plausible points rattle you so much that you would insult the person behind the post?

It seems to me that with some folks around here the paranoia runs very deep. Anyone that does not agree with the conspiracy must be a government bad guy or must be an unintelligent follower?

SMH
First of all David there was not any name calling in the post you quoted. If you think what was said was insulting perhaps you should browse through the thread a bit more and point that finger of yours at the folks that have called not just me, but others as well.....a lunatic, a conspiratard, a nutcase or nut job, and have insulted me personally by questioning my loyalty to my country when I've already served her faithfully for a decade of my life and saw my little brother into the ground for doing the same?

You might even find several posts by me for publicly apologizing for letting my emotions get the better of me a couple of times, and several more where I have asked EVERYONE to be a bit more respectful here since the topic is one that's fueled with allot of pain for some of us, and to at least make an attempt to keep the sarcasm to a minimum.

The posts that came directly after my request for this from a couple of folks you apparently agree with were dripping with more sarcasm and downright insulting comments. I guess fairness and all that only applies to the folks on your side of the argument.

If you don't like sarcastic replies to insults coming from your side perhaps you should be pointing that finger elsewhere. I've tried to be respectful and its been spit right in my face yet again despite the fact I've been man enough to admit I've said some things I probably shouldn't have, provoked or not and have repeatedly asked for everyone to be adults here.

Good day to you.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:30 PM
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Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words..

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobboy View Post
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words..

And those syphilitic pedophiles are our allies. Wonderful.
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