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Ash proof a vehicle

25K views 97 replies 47 participants last post by  Ian Treloar 
#1 ·
Could it be done? I think maybe. Redirecting air intakes. Adding filters and screens that could be cleaned on the fly. Anybody ever try this out?
What are some of your ideas?
 
#39 ·
He said "ash proofing" not "FEAR ASH NOW!! MUST PREP!"

Never know. Some one might want to have an ash proof vehicle.

Sorta falls into the same realm as making an armored car to escape LA, or having an amphibious vehicle...

Though it may also be relevant encase of dust storms or what ever.

Seems to be a subtle unrealized motto. "Just in case zombies, nukes, super volcano, comet strike...or...what ever..."
 
#40 ·
One guy mentioned it briefly, but a cyclonic pre-cleaner is what is needed. As they get full they automatically eject the dust/dirt/ash...they also have some that don't do it automatically...they have a bowl that must be cleaned out.

Try Donaldson, Wix, Centri, and others. I just got a Wix 24171 with a 4" pipe to go on my military truck...they used similar items in Iraq. Centri and 1 other brand are made out of metal, the others are plastic.

Make a snorkal on your vehicle and put a pre-cleaner on top of it that is rated for the cfm's of your vehicle. Very easy fix.
 
#44 ·
Just an observation........how much cubic feet of air does a vehicle engine need ? Assuming the vehicle is an SUV with a large engine and driving slowly (so no forced air) given lack of forward vision in an ash cloud, and revving under strain climbing over obstacles I would think a number of the filters suggested so far would not be able to filter a sufficient amount of clean air to provide enough oxygen to the engine. Worth looking into the oxygen draw of an engine.
 
#47 ·
When Mount St. Helens went off years ago we used womens nylons to cover the air intake. It worked great, it was used as a pre-cleaner. The nylons would colect the particals and usually shut the engine down because of air loss before the filter got cloged.

Then have plenty of them or plenty of pieces of them with bungie cord to attach to the intake. When the engine dies you just pull it off and slap on a new one. We had 3 feet of ash on the ground in the front yard in eastern washington back then.
 
#48 ·
You might look into tractor air filter setups. Below is just one example. Most tractors have a dual stage filter with a dirt exit funnel. And they have vanes to make it kind of cyclonic.


 
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#64 ·
What the diagram shows is a version of a Donaldson type air filter. I was a service manager at a large equipment distributor during Mt St Helens, and the equipment with this type of filter faired the best. The ash is extremely abrasive. We put out a bulletin to the golf courses to empty the filter cup every couple hrs. For those that did not listen, I saw Kohler engines completely destroyed in as little as 300 hrs. They have a design life of several thousand hours.

An oiled foam prefilter may be the best solution to retrofit many cars and trucks.
 
#51 ·
Diesels use much larger intake, exhausts and air filters per HP compared to gas. The air fuel ratios can run 17:1 to 29:1, while when idling or not under load this ratio can exceed 145:1. Lower restrictions increase efficiency so while the air filters might be much larger they also draw in more air per HP.
 
#52 ·
When I put my hand over my wife's car's air intake (4cy engine) I can barely feel the "sucking" of the air, but the car nearly dies.

When I put my hand over my army truck's air intake (6cy 465 cu in) it feels like my hand is going to be sucked into the pipe, but the truck doesn't not miss a beat.

I guess I don't know what that means.
 
#53 ·
I'm only wildly guessing at the motors but the gas might have a sensitive mass air flow sensor and or EGR bleed off. An EGR is an Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve meant for emission contol. It takes unburned fuel from the exhaust and reintroduces it back into the engine via an EGR control valve possibly skipping your hand but killing the engine due to a lean result taping off the exhaust gasses. While the turbo diesel's? Turbo impeller is creating a strong vacuum. Also many diesels can use Jake brakes (an engine braking mechanism) While you can restrict the air at idle the vehicle will make little power with the restriction. Technically it's done at the exhaust for braking but you could be making an improvised intake jake break.

If true this leads to my next question. If you had a runaway diesel truck with failing brakes and two people inside. Could someone block the intake to slow and eventually stop the vehicle?
 
#54 ·
At the rate of fall volcanic ash decends I can only think of one means of continiously keeping the filter breathing.
If a person were to arrange in their exhaust system a pair of gates that swapped intake and exhaust on prescreens on oposing sides of the vehicle, the exhaust would be blowing out the dirty side and the intake would be getting dirty, making the gate swap sides clears the alternate intake. flat screen material on the side would be the best, with port shields facing downward.
A vacuum diaphram and linkage would sense the clog and automaticly swap ports,as long as there is a issue.
 
#57 ·
Are we forgetting the radiator? How are you going to keep the radiator from plugging up?

So you make a good air filter that works. It ain't gonna do much good if your radiator is a brick and your motor is 400 degrees.

I have an idea how to remedy this, but I don't want to be one of those folks who don't read and post things that are unfeasible. :upsidedown:
 
#59 ·
Filter media, comes in rolls. Wrap the air box. Shake out as needed. Put in front of the radiator. Same. Take lessons from the Aussies and Arabs.

Really bad? Run a Moses Lake dryer vent setup to the interior. Wrap with filter media. Replace a window with filter media. Duct tape is your friend.

Mt Saint Helens looks ready to pop again. Don't know which is worse, that or Aussie outback road dust...
 
#60 ·
Volcanic ash would cause many problems I think. Clogging the radiator fins, cutting the fan belt possibly, getting into wheel bearings, alternator bearings, clogging cooling vents on alternator, covering the windshield so you can't see, scratching the glass if you use the wipers.

But focusing on the air cleaner problem. First stage should be a cyclone separator as many have said already, then a fiberglass roll filter that advances automatically on Delta P or manually. If in dry conditions, you could also use a Donaldson "huff and puff" self cleaning air filter. It has pleated screw on filter elements onto a plenum, and back blows the junk off of individual filter elements with a reversal compressed air blast periodically.

They also have a special filter media that traps the dirt on the surface making it easier to simply reverse blow it off. Obviously you need an air compressor for this option. The air compressor inlet would take some of the filtered air from your main system, to keep from plugging the air compressor up.
 
#63 ·
Not sure how I missed this thread originally. Very interesting topic. I do have a few thoughts on it.

First stage of filtration: A custom built or commercial cyclonic filter, mounted on the bumper (or in the bed of a pick up) with a snorkel cap that also incorporates its own cyclone.

Second stage: As has been posted (I did not read the entire thread), a cyclonic snorkel cap on a duct that feeds a cyclonic pre-filter for the engine air intake, mounted in the bed of a pickup or on the bumper of a car. Same thing for the passenger air, but feeding an external CBRN filter system.

While the cyclonic filter will get most of the ash, you still need additional filtration, so a filter box using K&N filter elements is placed in the duct from the cyclone to the regular engine air intake. Carry a cleaning kit for the K&N filters, plus spares.

Do a similar system for the passenger compartment air intake, except run it through an external CBRN filter system after the cyclone and K&N filter stages.


Also as has been stated, do not forget the radiator. This requires even more air flow than the engine, so filtering will probably not work very well. However, something similar to a cyclonic filter can be made to divert the air flow downward sharply to force as much of the ash to drop out of the air stream before it gets to the radiator. A large box mounted on the front bumper in front of the grill with large downward sloping plates would force much of the ash to drop down, as the air turned back upward on its path through the radiator. (This can also incorporate radiator ballistic armor, too.)

Do not forget the windshield. If you drive slow, it will minimize scratching. But if the ash fall is heavy, there could be an accumulation, requiring the windshield to be cleaned. But running the windshield wipers will just scrape the sharp ash across it more firmly, scratching the windshield more quickly.

Adding a set of air nozzles that can be used with compressed air from an onboard compressor system can be used to blow the ash off. It can be attached to the windshield wipers, if a lift mechanism is added so the wipers do not ride on the windshield, but a quarter of an inch above it. This way, the moving wipers can keep blowing the ash away.

Just my opinion.
 
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#76 ·
Yes I had forgotten it was here but glad it popped back up. You got me to thinking about the radiator. Compressed air source is a great idea. Be it from a compressor or storage tanks like heavy tube bumpers. Having a way to blow ash from the windshield and maybe from the radiator also could work. I guess you could run air lines just about anywhere you wanted to keep thinks cleared off. A guy may even turn the bed of his truck, with a camper top sealed tight, into a filter box and draw all his air from that. Camper slide windows I am sure could be turned into filter boxes with a little work.

A side note, had a mechanic at a terminal one time that was into mudding. He had taken the AC compressor from his truck and turned it into an air compressor and used tube bumpers for storage tanks. Never saw it but he told a fine story.
 
#65 ·
Our Heavy self propelled artillery was designed for desert work...It had a couple of what everyone called blower motors on it...actually they were centrifuges for engine air intake....Think "VORTEX VACUM CLEANER"...the impellers on the motors ran ot 30,000 RPM.

We could run for weeks in conditions you couldnt hardly see in and only have to tap the filters out once a month.
 
#68 ·
As mentioned by another poster, oil soaked foam prefilters would probably be the most practical and field expedient way to deal with it. And the easiest way to make that work would probably either a "cold air" intake with a cone style air filter, or a round air filter as I have installed.

Didn't realize the quantity of ash and problems associated with it. On board air (and tank) would be a good thing (as Jerry mentioned) to keep the windshield clear. But also the rad.

To further help the windshield survive, give it a coat of wax. Also disconnect the automatic wiper function when using washer fluid. (dumb function anyway) That way you can give the window a good soak before wiping. Also handy for cold weather.
 
#71 ·
Is that a little bit of hyperbole, or is it fact? Not arguing with you, just trying to figure out the severity of it, if it is possible to drive in it if that is the volume coming down, and how likely a scenario.

I may be underestimating this volcanic ash thing. As another poster mentioned, the local police seemed to do alright with just panty hose prefiltration that was changed fairly often. The oiled foam would be the same. I imagine something quick without having to expose a carb venturi or throttle body intake to abrasive particulates would be a boon.

And do you happen to know if there is a Donaldson system with a cyclone style separator, that is compatible with a gas engine truck? I imagine it would need to be out of the hood with a snorkel intake. Might have to break out a hole saw.... Maybe...:)
 
#72 ·
With all the new hybrid electric vehicles I am thinking about a tank myself.
There is an diesel electric armoured personnel carrier that can with a flip of a switch run on pure electric.
You avoid clogging the filters quickly and have abiut 200 mile range with a full charge.

Anybody else see that machine?
 
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